Should car poolers be allowed to use bus lanes?

delad

If you have 3 or more passengers I reckon you should be allowed to use the bus lanes. I was observing how many people were in each car this morning and the majority of cars had 5 seats and had just the driver in them. No doubt loads of these peoples would of been travelling from the same areas and going into the centre of Dublin, so should the government not be trying to encourage people to car pool in order to ease congestion? With the price of petrol/diesel ever increasing it makes sense for a lot of people to do this.

awec

This post has been deleted.

delad

awec wrote: »

It has been considered by the DOT before.

and why was it rejected? I presume because it would result in less petrol being bought and so less tax coming in? But then again won't Ireland get fined heavily if we don't meet the CO2 targets?

guttenberg

No because it will be widely abused. Plenty of single person cars will chance their arm using them if they think it'll get them to their destination quicker, higher volume of cars using them will defeat the purpose of having bus lanes in the first place. Guards are struggling to enforce the current rules, no chance will they be able to enforce this if it came into effect.

rasper

Works in other places , people think you 're to consider car pooling but if it saved time as well fuel

cadaliac

It is an obvious solution to congestion and escalating motor costs, but as you have already suggested, the tax take is too great for the government to consider advertising rewards for car pooling.
They would be shooting themselves in the foot. I car pool with a work colleague and we asked for car pool spaces nearer the main entrance at work, but we were laughed at. (car park fills quickly)
If the government won't promote carpooling, industry will be slow to take it on either.

pred racer

cadaliac wrote: »

It is an obvious solution to congestion and escalating motor costs, but as you have already suggested, the tax take is too great for the government to consider advertising rewards for car pooling.
They would be shooting themselves in the foot. I car pool with a work colleague and we asked for car pool spaces nearer the main entrance at work, but we were laughed at. (car park fills quickly)
If the government won't promote carpooling, industry will be slow to take it on either.

Let me get this 100% straight; you want a special parking space..............
Because you got a lift to work???

Are you serious?

awec

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Guy:Incognito

No. They should get the bus.

delad

pred racer wrote: »

Let me get this 100% straight; you want a special parking space..............
Because you got a lift to work???

Are you serious?

Yes, he is saying that car pooling cars should get priority, which is fair enough. Most work places do not have enough spaces for all workers who want to park there, so if a car is bringing in more than 1 worker they should get a guaranteed spot, it makes sense and would benefit everyone. It would mean less cars and more available spaces for employees.

wonski

pred racer wrote: »

Let me get this 100% straight; you want a special parking space..............
Because you got a lift to work???

Are you serious?

Reminds me of this

OP The reason it won't be introduced is because people already use them when it isn't allowed. Today it is pretty easy to spot car that shouldn't be on bus lane, but i can only imagine what would happen if regular cars, that have no Taxi/Garda sign, and do not look like a bus, were allowed in bus lanes.

sealgaire

I can envisage a situation where all the mammies will clog up the bus lanes in the mornings with the kiddies in the car..

corktina

are car poolers insured? passngers effectively share the cost so I wonder.

Armin_Tamzarian

corktina wrote: »

are car poolers insured? passngers effectively share the cost so I wonder.

You're commuting to work and there is no reward involved so I don't see how the insurance would be invalidated.

_Kaiser_

Would never work... most people in cities (particularly apartments) don't know their neighbours much beyond a nod/hello on the street if even that - never mind trusting this stranger in your car / to pay their share etc

corktina

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

You're commuting to work and there is no reward involved so I don't see how the insurance would be invalidated.

i just wondered if it might be taboo wth the Insurance Companies...idle musing only...it would vastly extend their exposure to claims, so I would have thought their Underwriters would have an opinion.

Yakuza

corktina wrote: »

are car poolers insured? passngers effectively share the cost so I wonder.

I think insurance is definitely not an issue if the arrangement is of the "you drive one week, I drive the next" variety as no money changes hands. Even if you're giving a lift to someone who doesn't have a car and they give you petrol money, it's still not really an income as such, just defraying costs a bit. I've driven to Spain with my folks in my car, they paid for a refuel - is my insurance invalid? - I don't bloody think so. If all you did was pick up your neighbours and ferry them to work without going to a place of work yourself, then that would be seen as an income I'd imagine.

wonski

corktina wrote: »

i just wondered if it might be taboo wth the Insurance Companies...idle musing only...it would vastly extend their exposure to claims, so I would have thought their Underwriters would have an opinion.

There is no taboo - sharing car is allowed, even if you take money, as long as it is not for reward and no profit is made.
Some companies do ask if you commute to work, fbd would give you class1 insurance because of that

Markcheese

Half the buses don't use bus lanes (in cork anyways)... I don't think taxis should use bus lanes either ,(although I'm open to change on that). Car poolers nope..
On a side, should city bus lanes be in the middle of the road( with yellow boxs to get to the stops),so cars don't get left in them

paddy147

Are empty taxis and taxis looking for a fare allowed by law to use a bus lane???

I saw a garda standing by the side of the buslane pull in an empty taxi in the bus lane at fairview park yesterday afternoon.Also pulled in a courrier bike too.

sdanseo

Bus lanes are underused in some places, and totally disused (and even invalid) in others - there are a number of places I can think of where perhaps only one bus route uses the lane, and on balance it would be more advantageous, perhaps, to allow all traffic use both lanes.

There's also the redundant, disused bus lanes - take the N32 for example where it's painted on the road, but doesn't have the blue signs. Legally, it has to have the blue signs to constitute a bus lane, but am I failing to comply with road markings if I drive in it? Me fears an ill-educated Garda may think so. Maybe the council are afraid that removing the lines will increase speeding as people will treat it as a dual carriageway?

As for the OP's question - yes of course carpoolers should be allowed use them. 3 or more in the car, 24/7.

Esel

paddy147 wrote: »

Are empty taxis and taxis looking for a fare allowed by law to use a bus lane?

Officially, a taxi can only use the bus lane if it has been hired, so an 'empty' taxi would have to be en route to pick up a fare. If the garda saw 'For Hire' on the meter, he could issue a fixed penalty, but I'd say most drivers would switch on the meter before stopping....

I hate taxi drivers who think they still 'own' the bus lane outside of stated hours.

Also, a car driver can be prosecuted for not using a bus lane outside of stated hours, similar to a driver staying in the overtaking lane on a two-lane road.

Spook_ie

Esel wrote: »

Officially, a taxi can only use the bus lane if it has been hired, so an 'empty' taxi would have to be en route to pick up a fare. If the garda saw 'For Hire' on the meter, he could issue a fixed penalty, but I'd say most drivers would switch on the meter before stopping....

I hate taxi drivers who think they still 'own' the bus lane outside of stated hours.

Also, a car driver can be prosecuted for not using a bus lane outside of stated hours, similar to a driver staying in the overtaking lane on a two-lane road.

Not so, a Taxi can use the bus lane during the course of plying for hire, imagine the (extra) carnage if the taxis had to cut across a bus lane to pick up a fare

Driving a vehicle (other than a taxi in course of business or a pedal cyclist) in a bus lane during the period of operation No Yes €60 €90

So you'd better find another reason to hate taxi drivers other than

I hate taxi drivers who think they still 'own' the bus lane outside of stated hours.

corktina

wonski wrote: »

There is no taboo - sharing car is allowed, even if you take money, as long as it is not for reward and no profit is made.
Some companies do ask if you commute to work, fbd would give you class1 insurance because of that

Ok , the thing I'm meandering towards is, if it is permitted by their Insurance , then why not issue a variant on a Private Hire license to would-be-car poolers for a specific journey and return. to be used only if there are at least 3 on board (or 4). This would keep the use of the bus lanes down to a minimum and in fact would be better usage of the bus lane than a taxi with one passenger. Abuse the system and you lose your PH License

Big Nasty

In theory it's a good idea but it would never work properly / be abused here. I've used carpool freeways in the states and they work great.

Can motorbikes legally use bus lanes here?

Cabaal

rasper wrote: »

Works in other places , people think you 're to consider car pooling but if it saved time as well fuel

It does indeed,
But in other places we also see people having respect for their countryside by not littering or motorists having respect for cyclists etc

In Ireland people are just not good with rules as they generally don't think they apply to them, says it all when a large number of idiots refer to hazard lights as "park anywhere lights" and they use them for just that.

Shame really as it makes life harder for the rest of us and we can't have car pooling in bus lanes because of these types of people

djimi

Woudnt it just negate the purpose of a bus lane if it was full of cars all the time? Countries that implement a car pool system tend to have a dedicated car pool lane.

Del2005

corktina wrote: »

i just wondered if it might be taboo wth the Insurance Companies...idle musing only...it would vastly extend their exposure to claims, so I would have thought their Underwriters would have an opinion.

IIRC one of the good things FF did was pass a law that's it's legal to except money for car sharing. If I have a car and drive to work I can except money for petrol/tolls from a person and not invalidate my insurance.

You could always car share, every 2nd day/week driving, as there was no monetary gain.

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Can motorbikes legally use bus lanes here?

Nope, but the vast majority of Gardaí know it's safer so unless your completely taking the p!ss you're OK. When operation Free Flow was on the blue tabs used to stop bikers in bus lanes, the real Gardaí would soon cop them on.

HydeRoad

Never, ever, ever.

The day bus lanes are opened up to carpoolers, is the day bus lanes may as well be eradicated altogether.

There are two choices. Either encourage the use of public transport, or encourage private transportation. There is an argument there about which is preferable, and that is fair enough.

But if public transport is to work efficiently, it MUST have priority. That means exclusive use of bus lanes, at the very least.

Allowing carpoolers into bus lanes has two negative effects. Firstly, it means an unpoliceable ingress of general traffic into the bus lane, causing congestion to the bus.

Secondly, it means a transfer of patronage from the bus to the private car. Every passenger in a carpooling car may be saving one car off the road, but it is also one less passenger that could be in a bus, meaning costs to bus operators and bus users go up, and less efficiency.

Add to that the fact that it is visually impossible in heavy traffic to discern a carpooling car from a single occupancy car, and anarchy results.

The argument is whether or not we should have bus lanes at all - that is an argument between proponents of private motoring and proponents of public transport.

But allowing carpoolers into bus lanes is a non-argument, a nonsense, devised by people who wish to override the rights of everyone else. It cannot, and will never, work.

Jaysoose

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not so, a Taxi can use the bus lane during the course of plying for hire, imagine the (extra) carnage if the taxis had to cut across a bus lane to pick up a fare

Ive news for you...this is a fairly common occurence already....

cadaliac

pred racer wrote: »

Let me get this 100% straight; you want a special parking space..............
Because you got a lift to work???

Are you serious?

Yes I am serious.
Well, I wouldn't call it a "special" parking space, but if you insist.....

I get a "lift" to work one week and give other people a "lift" to work the next week - you know how that works?
I don't think you got the point of the post, however. :rolleyes:

Davidth88

I think converting the bus lanes into HOV ( High occupancy vehicle ) lanes is a good one.

The only ones that I would be wary of would be the hard shoulder lanes on the dual carriageways ( ie on the N4 Lucan bypass ) , the reason being it's pretty dangerous already IMO with cars ( taxi's ) undertaking you then trying to butt back into the traffic when the lanes finish for the junctions ( ie at Woodies ).

Of course this would have to be policed , can you really see that happening ?

Del2005

cadaliac wrote: »

Yes I am serious.
Well, I wouldn't call it a "special" parking space, but if you insist.....

I get a "lift" to work one week and give other people a "lift" to work the next week - you know how that works?
I don't think you got the point of the post, however. :rolleyes:

How is it policed if both decide to drive. In my company they gave out stickers if two people agreed to car share, with reserved spaces close to a few entrances. But once people got the sticker there was no way of knowing if they had come on their own or with another, we have several buildings with multiple entrances.

Unless you have someone monitoring the people parking it's ripe for abuse. I was on a training trip to the US a while ago and outside one building there was always a huge truck parked in the disabled space outside the door of the main building. I was thinking the person can't be that bad if they can climb several feet into it, turned out it was the person giving the course I was on had a blind partner. They had a pass for them, fair enough, but their partner was never on the site, bit cheeky but still legally allowed to park there. But they where taking up the nearest space to the building when they where perfectly fit and capable.