The predicament

pinkopallino

They talked about having a child together, they loved each other. She began to realise this would not happen as each day passed, on her own already with two children. These two children she had had previously with two different people by mutual accord. She felt this loneliness and strain especially when she went for two months in the summer to Dublin to be with him, rented a house, and worked every day as an English teacher to pay the rent and childminder.. He told her when she asked him to stay that "he was not playing happy families". He retreated to the pub frequently. He also had a demanding job, then signed on for a law course, the time he had outside of that, he spent in the pub. He told her that having a child now would not be an option, something she already knew, the thought of which was out of the question for her too. He was still married and would be until his studies ended in five years. He had two adult sons.

The unthinkable then happened, she ovulated twice in the month of August and became pregnant. Up till then she had been successful monitoring with ovulation predictor sticks. Not so this time. She had gone back to Italy with her children straight into college exams herself. She got the flu after them then discovered the pregnancy. She rang him to tell him. His reply was "It's your choice". This was his way of telling her that she should abort to save their relationship. Two years previously, she had had a missed miscarriage on the twelfth week which she would never get over, her life marked by that loss. Her hurt was profound at his repeated intimation. He told her over and over again, having a child now could not happen. She became depressed and suicidal. The first weeks of pregnancy already were weighing heavily and she fainted a couple of times. She cut herself for relief, her wounds sewn in hospital more than once as she cut deeper. She felt alone, distressed and had no one to turn to.

They had some dialogue throughout this period, interspersed with hurt and suffering. She asked him then would he recognise the child. He refused on the grounds that his children's succession rights would be affected. This was not a child, and it did not take precedence over living children. She became desperate and threatened to send him court orders. He then complied and said that their relationship was over as a result of that.

They continued to talk. She asked him if he could come to the birth, be with her for that day knowing the c-section terror she had been through on the previous occasion. This day would be a weekend during his college exams. He refused, it would be in the middle of his exams, he would fail otherwise.

She stopped talking to him at that point, feeling that basic humanity would never be extended to her by him. She would still pursue legal recognition for this child who would have the right to know his/her father despite the breakdown of their relationship. She could not raise three children on her own, and she would need financial help.

What would you do if you were the mother in this situation? bear in mind that she lives in another country from her partner. He would not be at the birth therefore she would not be able to put his name on the birth cert. and then registering the birth in Ireland, again, she would have to court order him to admit paternity. He also insisted on a paternity test before carrying this out. a prenatal paternity test costs €1200, a post-natal €400. If the mother dies in childbirth, the child will have no next of kin or guardian if the father is not on the cert.

syklops

He is already married, he has 2 adult children, he doesnt want anymore children and he apparently spends most of his time and possibly money in the pub. Why would you want a relationship with this man? Cut all ties and move on. In the long run it will be less hassle and possibly cost less.

I know people say "The child has a right to know his/her father", but I disagree. Tell him or her the truth, that the relationship didnt work out, the mother moved back to italy, there is no contact. When the child is 18 they can go looking if they want.

What is 'she' expecting to achieve by getting him legally registered as the father aside from tying herself to a man who does not love the child, nor loves the woman enough to support her?

pinkopallino

Agreed except she would need financial support not being able to support three children on her own.

Sleepy

If the mother in that situation was someone I knew I'd be encouraging her to seek professional help. She clearly has issues with accepting responsibility for her own actions and poor coping skills.

After that, should she decide to keep the child, she should take him to court for maintenance. I wouldn't advise her to expect anything more than that from him though: he's made his position crystal clear.

username123

Ok, so, she knew he didnt want a child, but contraception failed - it happens.
I agree with the poster above, it sounds like he wouldnt be the best father anyway.

Then she tried to force him to care and asked him for things that are impossible for him like failing exams he has worked towards to attend a birth he doesnt want to happen.

Then she threatened him with court orders.

After harranging and threatening him she now feels he will not extend basic humanity - its obvious to me that he just wants to get away now, he never wanted the pregnancy and then she became threatening and irrational.

If I were her I would accept (however hard that is) that she can never force someone to behave the way she wants them to behave and to force him to recognise his legal obligations financially is the max she can ever control. He will not magically turn into the father she wants him to be. If she cannot afford another child then she should think hard about alternatives such as abortion (which she may not agree with) or adoption (which she may not be able for), or accept that she is going to have a financial struggle on her hands.

Where a contraception failure is unacceptable to at least one person in the relationship then there must be a back up plan in place. This business of emotionally terrorising someone to be a parent is never going to end well.

syklops

pinkopallino wrote: »

Agreed except she would need financial support not being able to support three children on her own.

How did she manage to support 2 children on her own?

ash23

I was in a somewhat similar position (although was unaware the man was in a relationship). He moved away, I found out I was pregnant and he wanted no part of it.

What would I do? The same thing that I did the first time. Have the child and bring it up alone. No fathers name on the birth cert, no maintenance, no support etc.
However, if I had an address I would go to court for maintenance and to have the DNA test, ensuring that he was financially supportive of the child even if he refused to be supportive in any other way.


Oh, and I'd use better contraception than ovulation predictor kits if I got into a relationship where the other person definitely didn't want a child.

syklops

ash23 wrote: »

However, if I had an address I would go to court for maintenance and to have the DNA test, ensuring that he was financially supportive of the child even if he refused to be supportive in any other way.

To be honest, I would disagree. Her ex is studying law, he could represent himself for nothing and tie her up in court for months if not years. Meanwhile she is getting lawyers bills. Plus she lives in Ireland so I would imagine regular trips here for court would be required meaning more money down the drain. Move on, learn from the lessons.

pinkopallino

She would be entitled to legal aid owing to her financial situation.

ash23

syklops wrote: »

To be honest, I would disagree. Her ex is studying law, he could represent himself for nothing and tie her up in court for months if not years. Meanwhile she is getting lawyers bills. Plus she lives in Ireland so I would imagine regular trips here for court would be required meaning more money down the drain. Move on, learn from the lessons.

The man has a financial responsibility for the child. She should at least TRY to pursue maintenance. She can decide after that if it is worth it, depending on how it goes. There is more than a weekly payment at stake. It is also the child's identity, inheritance rights and the right to a decent standard of living. Trying to raise a child on one wage is very very difficult, let alone three.

It is not her lesson alone to learn. He was at the conception too.

username123

ash23 wrote: »

Oh, and I'd use better contraception than ovulation predictor kits if I got into a relationship where the other person definitely didn't want a child.

I thought this too but I thought it might not be pc to state it!

But I would have thought ovulation prediction was for trying to ensure a pregnancy, not trying to avoid one.

ash23

username123 wrote: »

I thought this too but I thought it might not be pc to state it!

But I would have thought ovulation prediction was for trying to ensure a pregnancy, not trying to avoid one.

No I did use it before for a number of years as a natural method of contraception but was warned by the GP that it's only about 80% effective so wouldn't be a good method if a pregnancy would be totally unwelcome. I was in a long term, stable relationship, a pregnancy wouldn't have been the worst thing to happen so I went with it for about 3 years.

Anyway, OT but it wouldn't be a good choice for someone for whom pregnancy would be a total disaster as in OPs "womans" case.

syklops

She would be entitled to legal aid owing to her financial situation.

Legal aid yes, but I assume she would not be entitled to aid for flights, accommodation and child minding services while she attends court. Its worth considering, seeing as she lives in a different country.

ash23 wrote: »

The man has a financial responsibility for the child. She should at least TRY to pursue maintenance.

I think she should take legal advice on the matter.

Trying to raise a child on one wage is very very difficult, let alone three.

I don't doubt that for a second.

ash23

syklops wrote: »

I think she should take legal advice on the matter

Exactly. She should try. Not just

Move on, learn from the lessons

username123

syklops wrote: »

Move on, learn from the lessons.

This woman already has 2 children from 2 different men, and is alone raising them. Now she is pregnant again, for the 3rd time, by a different man who wants nothing to do with the situation.

I would respectfully suggest that this woman is learning nothing from these experiences and continues to make the same mistake over and over. She could do with some life coaching/counselling or other form of therapy to try and overcome her need to have children with men who are not committed to her.

pinkopallino

That might be a valid suggestion if you knew some facts, perhaps some questions could be asked rather than asserting unknown truths. Her first child was when she was in a relationship with another woman, the father of her child being a gay friend. They agreed together to have a child under the understanding she would ask nothing financially of her friend. The child would be enough and the fact that he would want to be a father albeit part-time. The second child was with a former partner..she wanted a sibling for her first child, but was not in a relationship with this man. Therefore the three parents, her former partners support the two children. In the case of the third child this would put a heavy financial strain on them hence the actual father (her partner in whatever capacity) contributing to its welfare. Hope that clarifies.

username123

pinkopallino wrote: »

That might be a valid suggestion if you knew some facts, perhaps some questions could be asked rather than asserting unknown truths. Her first child was when she was in a relationship with another woman, the father of her child being a gay friend. They agreed together to have a child under the understanding she would ask nothing financially of her friend. The child would be enough and the fact that he would want to be a father albeit part-time. The second child was with a former partner..she wanted a sibling for her first child, but was not in a relationship with this man. Therefore the three parents, her former partners support the two children. In the case of the third child this would put a heavy financial strain on them hence the actual father (her partner in whatever capacity) contributing to its welfare. Hope that clarifies.

Given the above it sounds like this lady is quite a selfish individual. Choosing to have a child because she wants a sibling for her first child is not necessarily in the best interests of the child.

It doesnt really change the outcome of any advice. She cannot force this man (the third father) to be a father in any emotional sense, and the best she can hope for (if she chooses to have the child) is to force him to meet his legal obligations financially. Its an unfortunate situation to bring a child into (a disinterested father), but this would be her choice - and she wouldnt be the first to choose it and make a success of it.

January

The mother should seek legal advice in both her home country and the country the father resides in and professional help for her self harming.

Legal advice or medical advice cannot be given here.

Thread closed.