So, after all, it was Perfidious Albion which blew up the Four Courts

Rebelheart

The treasonous, collaborating little mé féiner counter-revolutionary Free State guttersnipes were lying all along. Given that they were also tying unarmed Irish revolutionaries to trees and blowing them to death on behalf of the deal with the devil they made with the British Empire, one cannot be surprised.

Anyway, I always suspected that a people who were cultureless enough to intentionally destroy so many census records -'The Irish census records for 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 were completely destroyed prior to 1922, by order of the [British] government.'(Source) - would not be adverse to destroying many centuries of historical records in the Four Courts in order to achieve a political/military aim before they left.

And sure enough it seems that after almost a century of denials by Fine Gaelers/Blueshirts, the British were actually responsible for firing the shots which started the Irish "civil" war, if that's not an oxymoron. It wasn't just British weapons, which we all knew were used due to the British threatening Collins. Now, we know it was British colonial forces who were brought in to suppress Irish revolutionaries (and historical records) by bombing the Four Courts and starting the Irish Civil War. "Civil war" indeed.

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Memoir suggests British army at opening shots of Civil War


MARK HENNESSY

British soldier’s account contradicts near century-old official records that say Collins refused help

BRITISH ARMY artillery crews were used to bombard the Four Courts in 1922 in the opening battle of the Civil War, according to a recently unearthed memoir.

The revelation contradicts near century-old official accounts that Michael Collins refused British offers of soldiers to end the three-month occupation of the Four Courts by anti-Treaty forces.

The memoir of Lance Bombardier Percy Creek, Royal Field Artillery, was found by Open University academic William Sheehan and broadcast by BBC Radio 4’s Document series last night.

In it, Creek recounts how his unit of howitzer artillery was sent to Fermanagh, but later told to march by night to Dublin and “told not to speak to anyone and to keep as quiet as possible”.

Up to then, the Irish National Army had fired less-effective shrapnel rounds into the Four Courts, then held by Rory O’Connor, who opposed the 1921 Treaty with Britain.

Creek’s unit, according to a memoir now held by the Imperial War Museum, waited until they were given the orders to fire, before unleashing two heavy rounds.

“[We] then saw the shell rip into a wall of one of the courts. Then, all became quiet and I think the officers and dignitaries were all very tense,” he recounts.

“We only fired two rounds and quickly limbered up and went back to the rest of the battery,” said the first World War veteran, who described the situation in Dublin as “very tricky”.

Creek recalled that his sergeant and commanding officer were worried beforehand because of the presence of Irish soldiers in the Royal Field Artillery unit: “The Irish are temperamental people,” he recorded.

Some of the memoir is contradictory in parts because Creek was under the impression that the building had been occupied by Black and Tans, rather than anti-Treaty forces.

“A few days later we went to some docks and the whole battery was shipped back to Fishguard,” he remembered in an account that appears to have been written in the 1960s or 70s.

In response to rumours at the time, the National Army vehemently denied that British soldiers had been involved in the Four Courts bombardment, issuing a detailed statement to The Irish Times.

In his records, Gen Nevil Macready recorded that Michael Collins had refused offers of British help, save artillery which the National Army did not have.

The British put pressure on Collins to end the Four Courts occupation after the assassination in London in June 1921 of Gen Henry Wilson, Chief of the Imperial General Staff.

The Creek memoir is significant, William Sheehan told The Irish Times yesterday, because it shows “that the agenda was being driven by the British cabinet in London”.

Ministers there, including Winston Churchill, were concerned that anti-Treaty forces in Munster and elsewhere would mobilise to surround the National Army troops encircling the Four Courts.

If that happened, Ireland would “then have fallen back into anarchy, forcing the British to impose order once again”, said the Nottingham-based academic.

Collins, he said, was “not a victim, but there is evidence that he was certainly not in control of what was going on around him. He’s choiceless. He is essentially doing what the British wanted”.

The British pressure had increased after the June 18th referendum on the Treaty, which the pro-Treaty side won by 239,193 first-preference votes to 133,864 – a result giving Collins democratic legitimacy.

Collins’s biographer Tim Pat Coogan told the programme he did not know if Creek’s version of events was accurate, but “it could have happened”.

Dr John Regan of the University of Dundee said the account “complicates things”, since it suggests that “the British were there for the opening shots of the Civil War”.

The programme can be heard at: www.bbc.co. uk/programmes/b01nl67c

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Victor

Rebelheart wrote: »

Anyway, I always suspected that a people who were cultureless enough to intentionally destroy so many census records -'The Irish census records for 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 were completely destroyed prior to 1922, by order of the [British] government.'(Source) - would not be adverse to destroying many centuries of historical records in the Four Courts in order to achieve a political/military aim before they left.

Wasn't it recently demonstrated that the anti-treaty forces deliberately destroyed the public records office?

And sure enough it seems that after almost a century of denials by Fine Gaelers/Blueshirts, the British were actually responsible for firing the shots which started the Irish "civil" war, if that's not an oxymoron. It wasn't just British weapons, which we all knew were used due to the British threatening Collins.

Now, we know it was British colonial forces who were brought in to suppress Irish revolutionaries (and historical records) by bombing the Four Courts and starting the Irish Civil War.

If you bothered to read the article (a) the battle for the Four Courts was already underway (b) they only fired two rounds (c) part of the firing party was Irish (d) there may have been some confusion in the account.

P. Breathnach

Victor wrote: »

Wasn't it recently demonstrated that the anti-treaty forces deliberately destroyed the public records office?...

I'm not sure it was all that recent, but I can't remember where I read about it.

If you visit the building today, you can read an (annoyingly-out-of-sequence) set of information boards that summarise the history of the building. I was surprised to see how badly-damaged the building was in the civil war action; the restoration was an immense task for a new administration which commanded meagre resources. It is indicative of a respect for the built heritage that governments since that era have largely abandoned.

Judgement Day

I read Rebelheart's link but failed to see anything that backs up his statement that the British systematically destroyed any records. Now I see it, but I don't see anything to back up the allegation. Anyway, it's a well known fact that certain census material was pulped - but not for reasons of confidentiality.

ejmaztec

Until reading the article a couple of days ago, I always assumed that the British lent the artillery to the Free State troops and stood back and watched. Either way, they were still calling the shots as to how the new state was going to develop.

In one of Diarmaid Ferriter's 20th c history TV programmes, the situation with the loss of the records was explained, and it had nothing to do with the British. Even historians at the time tried to persuade the anti-treaty forces to leave the records intact at Four Courts, because they understood what it meant for the records to be destroyed. Even though it served no purpose the buildings and the contents were incinerated anyway.

gobnaitolunacy

Why couldn't they just sit back and starve them out???

tac foley

I listened to the programme on BBC Radio 4.

I heard nothing that would suggest anything else except that -

1. If it were indeed true, and had been generally known at the time, then General Collins' name would now be sh!te, and certain people, including some on this forum, would be going to Beál na Bládh every year to celebrate, rather than commemorate.

2. There was no mention of anything more than the two shots fired, and no mention whatsoever of the wholesale destruction of priceless and irreplaceable national records and archival material by the British.

As for what REALLY happened, well, it's history, and all the discussion about it won't change a single thing.

tac

Peregrinus

Because the survival of a Republican garrison in the heart of Dublin would have been a symbol of the impotence of the new Free State to exert control even over its own capital city.

dubhthach

Locking thread, the initial post title and content is as far as I'm concerned trolling as well as inflammatory, I will not tolerate such breaches of the charter as a result I have issued a two week ban on the poster.

-Mod