Design student needs your input!!!

kevmcguigan

Hi guys I'm Kevin, a design student @ IT Sligo. I am looking for your help/advice on a little project I am working on. I, like you guys, am trying to get people to grow their own vegetables
I will be approaching this problem from a product designers perspective, with a goal of having a product/service to offer people at the end of this process.

I am looking into:

Reasons for why more people don't do it. Only 2% of the population does.

How much money people can save by growing their own?

Health benefits.

Environmental impact.

Water usage.

Energy savings. (Indirect saving from not having to travel to buy food).

The average household size/food consumption.

The average space available to a household for growing.


What I am here for is to ask you to share some of your knowledge with me on these issues and any other little hints, tips, tricks associated with starting to grow your own.
Also whether i should be favouring organic growing methods rather than hydroponics or aeroponics. And any info on vertical gardening solutions and Indoor v Outdoor.
Thanks in advance, any help with this will be greatly appreciated.
Kevin.

looksee

You are not making this easy with the layout, but here goes:
1. General apathy, laziness, lack of interest, space, time
2. Not a lot, by the time you have bought all the extras like fertilisers and tools and seeds you could probably buy in Aldi for considerably cheaper
3. Considerable, exercise, fresh air, mental health and really fresh veg is better nutritionally.
4. Depends. If enough people grew their own there could be environmental impact, but consumers could make more difference by avoiding air miles in the veg they do buy
5. In Ireland!!!
6. Not a lot, you cannot grow sausages and sliced pans, you still have to go to the shops
7. Don't understand the question - is there a question?
8. No idea! Anything from none to several acres.

Why do it? In our society, for the pleasure of seeing things grow, making it happen and enjoying lovely fresh veg.

Oldtree

not forgetting that you cannot buy in the shops the varities you can grow, there is a huge taste difference imo.

Take the granny smith apple for instance, you get a good shapely apple, good shiny skin, good texture, good disease resistance, good storage capabilities and generally easy to grow, very good for a commercial product.

What you dont get is a good taste that would be comparable to some of the lesser known varities.

kevmcguigan

Thanks for the responses guys.

Oldtree

My hobby is to grow what i can without using any chemical input or killing anything, my own compost with chicken manure and liquid seaweed is all that my vegis eat

i try to circumvent natural problems, for example growing peas is very difficult with the amount of snails and slugs I have. I tried for a number of years to just toss them next door but that didnt work as they came back in droves and brought their friends. What I have found is that if I can get a dry week or two at the start of the summer, they are less active, and I plant twice as much seed and then about 50% or so seems to mature to a point beyond the slugs interest, and everybodies happy.

kevmcguigan

Hi guys I have created a quick little survey on polldaddy.com. It is related to this topic and my ongoing college project.
If you could please give less than 5 mins of your time to fill it out I would greatly appreciate it.

Click on, or copy and paste link into browser:

http://kevmcguigan.polldaddy.com/s/future-of-home-food-production

Thanks,
Kevin.

magicbastarder

is this the final poll? you'll get skewed results by asking the people who are already into gardening.

kevmcguigan

Its a test run, of what will be a more focused poll

magicbastarder

i'd ask about convenience - i.e. how much of a factor it is for people.
most people, as mentioned above, will prefer to buy, from a cost factor, but convenience is also a huge issue.

lucylu

I grow veg really for the sense of achievement.
When you look at the dinner plate and can say that the meat is the only thing that was bought the rest came from outside is fresh and tastes great
I watched a program recently where a potato grower was spraying their potatoes every 7 days.. I grow blight resistant potatoes and only spray our spuds with water.

This year was the worst year I have had growing veg, from seeds not growing, that Super moon Frost on May 5th (killing all my apple blossoms) to the F-N Slugs..
I have been helping my parents since i was a kid growing fruit and veg

username123

Id love to grow my own vegetables and the reasons why I dont are as follows:

I live in an apartment block. I have looked into an allotment but they cost money, are a bigger space than Id like to start off with and the nearest ones to me have a massive waiting list.

Time, pretending that I did have a garden - would I put in the time? Id like to think so but maybe not?

Knowledge. I dont know anyone who does it. I dont know anything about it. Id need to study up, get a good book, join a group - something.

Convenience - I could easily see myself going all gung ho but then resorting to the supermarket because its easier.

kevmcguigan

Thanks everyone for taking time out to share your insights. It really is appreciated

kevmcguigan

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd ask about convenience - i.e. how much of a factor it is for people.
most people, as mentioned above, will prefer to buy, from a cost factor, but convenience is also a huge issue.

Thanks for the input, its much appreciated. I had intended mentioning the convenience factor, but due to the limitations of the "free" polling site I could only have 10 questions on the survey. Its $200 a year if you want to ask any more than that. Just not viable as a student I'm afraid.
Any web designers out there may want to consider redesigning a site such as this particularly for students, maybe with a pay-as-you-go payment scheme. Just throwing that out there.

Thanks again.

Oldtree

username123 wrote: »

Id love to grow my own vegetables and the reasons why I dont are as follows:

I live in an apartment block. I have looked into an allotment but they cost money, are a bigger space than Id like to start off with and the nearest ones to me have a massive waiting list.

Time, pretending that I did have a garden - would I put in the time? Id like to think so but maybe not?

Knowledge. I dont know anyone who does it. I dont know anything about it. Id need to study up, get a good book, join a group - something.

Convenience - I could easily see myself going all gung ho but then resorting to the supermarket because its easier.

Do you have a balcony or a south facing window? You can grow almost anything in pots, with a tray underneath that when its empty you need to water. the only way to learn is to do it and grow somthing, its really not that difficult. Feed once a week and see what you get, Do a few pots so you dont overdo it and just enjoy growing what you can or have the patience for.

I have just harvested a pineapple from a pot in a south facing window next to a radiator. Takes one year to root properly and start to grow then another year to flower, ripen and produce a pineapple, two years each time, small pineapple really but tastes lovely and is very rewarding.

username123

Oldtree wrote: »

Do you have a balcony or a south facing window? You can grow almost anything in pots, with a tray underneath that when its empty you need to water. the only way to learn is to do it and grow somthing, its really not that difficult. Feed once a week and see what you get, Do a few pots so you dont overdo it and just enjoy growing what you can or have the patience for.

I have just harvested a pineapple from a pot in a south facing window next to a radiator. Takes one year to root properly and start to grow then another year to flower, ripen and produce a pineapple, two years each time, small pineapple really but tastes lovely and is very rewarding.

What lovely pics!!!

No, Im afraid I dont. I am ground floor, and where my back doors are is recessed, and then the balcony above overhangs also, so by the time I get out of the shadow, Im out in the communal back garden!!

I have grown herbs from time to time in pots though.

Your pics are brilliant, Im inspired to find a secret sunny spot!

redser7

I'm always amazed that most people say that you don't save money on growing your own. It depends on what you grow of course. Carrots and spuds are relatively cheap to buy. But you can get 1000 carrot seeds for less than a euro. Even taking into consideration failures you can beat the supermarket easily. Same with salad leaves and lettuce. Again you can get 1000 seeds for less than a euro. More than you could possibly eat but the cost of these greens in the shops is outrageous, not to mention the amount of chemicals they are sprayed with to get them to the shop stall.
But where you really save money is on specific things like tomatoes, peppers and chillis for example. All you can eat fresh during the season and also good to freeze for transforming into passatta, sauces etc. From 2 cucumber seeds I got 2 plants and I must have harvested 150 fruit from them. At knockdown prices that's 100 euro in the bank. Plus these were organic. I was eating them like bananas. Delicious and noticed a diffference in my health for it. Fruit is rediculous. Within a couple of years I have propagated 150 + plants for free from 6 sickly plants my sister gave me. Next year I could harvest ????? 100 lbs of strawberries? Hopefully more. At 3 euro a small punnet in the shops that's a silly return. I'll use what I can't eat for jam, tarts, wine, smoothies. Same with raspberries, blackberries, tayberries, currants. At the moment with the cold wind holwing outside I have fresh cape gooseberries in the fridge. It's like eating mini pineapples, amazing taste. These will continue to crop for another month. Have already made jam from them and will freeze more for wine. All from one seed. And dont get me started on Rhubarb. Perhaps the easiest to grow of all and one of the most generous. 2 euro for 3 limp stalks in the supermarket? No thanks. A crown will cost you that and give you many years of rhubarb, so much you will be sick of it. Just chuck some cow sh*t on in winter and that's it. Bareroot plants that will live on for many years can be bought for 2 or 3 euros. Just give them free home made compost or manure and they will do great.

I bartered surplus produce for other stuff or just gave it away and got goodwill in return. Friends and neighbours would pop by with cooked goods, a neighbour even dropped in football boots and clothes for the young lad. Good brands too And on and on it goes. Am into home brewing now because of surplus fruit and passing bottles around. Again people drop stuff around.

So it's fast becoming a way of life for me without having to give up my previous life. I think we are all farmers and deeply connected to the earth. But our present way of life has smoothered our farming instincts. But you just need to scratch the surfcace and sow a seed. It will all come flooding back. You just need to show people that convenience is not the be all and end all of life today. Ironically, if you want a product to get people to start growing their own, then I think you need to hand them something convenient A seed, some compost and a simple instruction - Add Water. Maybe something like cut and come again salad. Carrots are great to pull, maybe something quick cropping like early nantes for sweets baby carrots. Give your product/service a name which is also your web address and away you go. All the information someone might need to take the next steps right up to growing exotic produce under cover using self-sustainable organic methods (prefereably).

username123

redser7 wrote: »

I'm always amazed that most people say that you don't save money on growing your own.

Id be thinking of the time invested as having a cost as well - not that Id mind time spent doing something enjoyable!!!

But I think its a bit misleading to just price the seeds themselves, for someone to get started theyd need pots, compost, seeds, miracle grow or whatever, a book to tell them what to do, and maybe a yearly rent on an allotment, and then theyd invest their own time. Theres probably lots of other things I dont even know about, right down to a garden hose!!

I wistfully await the end of the recession and negative equity to have a garden to try it all out!!!

Do you ever can stuff redser? I mean, canning in the way the amish do, jars of stuff with airtight lids heated to a certain temperature for a certain time - so that all the bacteria is killed and its preserved. Something I always thought would be fun.

redser7

Hi 123 - I've just started preserving this year. So far have made jam, pickles (onions, cucumbers, beetroots), and jarred passatta and sauce from my own tomatoes, peppers, chillis, onions, herbs. I have some more recipes to try. It's a whole area that I never even considered when I started growing. But once you start getting gluts you find this is what people do. There are a few rules to follow for the different methods but it's not rocket science and I'm enjoying it and the preserves. I picked up a couple of books for 1p + packaging on amazon which are old but great. You should give it a go.
Home brewing came out of the allotment gluts too A great new interest and I'm making nice wine from tea bags and supermarket juices too! Get your name down on an allotment list and sure you never know. Cash is tight for me too and I'm in the same situation with celtic tiger mortgage and kids in creche. So I didn't take on the allotment lightly. Everything needs to be fanancially viable. But it can be done. I built a 20 foot polytunnel for under 200 euro using plastic pipe and scavanged materials. This has allowed me to grow all the tender stuff plus early and late crops plus stuff through the winter. I regularly scour adverts.ie and freetradeireland and pick up all sorts of freebies and bargains. One man's rubbish is another man's gold. This is how I make it work. I also get the plot for free by tending the car park flower beds

As for my own labour - I think of much of the countless hours of 'spare' time I used to spend as wasted - tv, loafing around. So I'm much more fulfilled and dont see it as work and so dont count it as a cost. You said ...

But I think its a bit misleading to just price the seeds themselves, for someone to get started theyd need
pots, - got hundreds for free on freetrade
compost, - buy it at a fraction of cost in august/september. Eg. 100 litres for 3 euro in woodies. I also make my own.
seeds, - B&Q, Aldi and Lidl. You can also swap seed as you often wont use it all. Expensive seed (F1 hybrid) is worth it for good crops. And dont forget you can save seed for next year and have free seed forever.
miracle grow or whatever, - make your own compost/manure/nettle/comfrey/seaweed tea
a book to tell them what to do, - second hand on amazon (try the Expert series, often 1p + packaging), library, internet (just ask away)
and maybe a yearly rent on an allotment, - money well spent
and then theyd invest their own time. - FREE
Theres probably lots of other things I dont even know about, right down to a garden hose!! - yes you are right but none of it is absolutely necessary. You need good soil, seed and knowledge. The rest you can add patiently over the years.

Gwan, you know you want to

Oldtree

The first things I grew were carrots from seed in a quality street tin full of mud, and i was delighted.

dont get carried away start small aim big. lots of vegi comes with free seed so easy to give it a go, gowannnnn

magicbastarder

username123 wrote: »

Id be thinking of the time invested as having a cost as well - not that Id mind time spent doing something enjoyable!!!

this is it - for people here, the cost factor is not an issue as it's a pastime, probably a greater factor in the decision to grow your own than the money saving aspect.

for someone not into gardening, the time investment is not worth the money saved. even placing a low value on your time - say €5 per hour, you'll 'spend' maybe €100 of your time growing veg in the course of a season. which would buy a lot of spuds.

redser7

magicbastarder wrote: »

this is it - for people here, the cost factor is not an issue as it's a pastime, probably a greater factor in the decision to grow your own than the money saving aspect.

for someone not into gardening, the time investment is not worth the money saved. even placing a low value on your time - say €5 per hour, you'll 'spend' maybe €100 of your time growing veg in the course of a season. which would buy a lot of spuds.

I agree that you have to enjoy it to negate the cost of your time, in general. However, you don't have to go the whole hog. You could pick some specific things to grow that will need practically no effort and give big rewards. Fruit would be it I think. Lidl/Aldi sell 10 bareroot strawberry runners for about 3 euro. I bought Elsanta and Ostara last spring. Bung em in the ground with some compost or manure. Do a little reading and over the life of these plants they will yield many pounds of fruit which would save you a fortune at the supermarkets. Take runners and increase your stock many times over. Again this is quick and easy to do. Ostara is great as it is an everbearer and can give you 2 flushes in a season.
Aldi/Lidl also sell bareroot fruit bushes and canes. With a little knowledge they require very little effort to maintain and yield fortunes worth of berries and fruit.
Salad leaves are easy, a good starting point that even a child could master in no time.
Having come from a position of never having sown a seed just over 2 years ago to what I am doing now I feel like an evangelist trying to spread the good word
I think people can get hung up on the notion of being self-sufficient. That's a whole other ball game. As oldtree says, start small and take it from there. By smart selection you can save yourself a lot of cash plus reap the benefits of eating your own produce, and more of it than you would if you were faced with the price tags at the supermarket.

yellowlabrador

I live in a semi detached house in a town and have a wraparound garden. I always had a very full garden with different sections and my front garden was always filled with flowers, no lawns. After a really rotten year and a totally different micro climate in the past few years, I'm converting my front and side garden to raised beds and pallet gardening. Pallets are stood up and pockets made between the slats and crops grown vertically. I'm dividing the front garden into 1 metre square raised beds and I'll grow a variety of stuff in them. I'm also going to give strawbale gardening a go. More and more people are turning their front gardens over to veg growing. I know that economicaly it might not always make sense but I already grow veg and fruit in my back garden in a polly tunnel and nothing beats mooching around before supper, picking your veg while watching things grow.
The idea is to also have removable shelters to protect the crops a bit.

username123

redser7 wrote: »

Gwan, you know you want to

Great post redser - youre really giving me inspiration and ideas here!!!

If you dont mind me asking, how much is the allotment per year?

kevmcguigan

Guys thanks again for taking time out to generate some very interesting discussions on this topic.
It's a great help with my research for this project and is much appreciated.

Kevin.

redser7

username123 wrote: »

Great post redser - youre really giving me inspiration and ideas here!!!

If you dont mind me asking, how much is the allotment per year?

100 euro for 10 m x 10 m. Nearly choked when I first heard how much but if you use the space well you can grow plenty. I prefer to think about it as 2 euro a week

username123

redser7 wrote: »

100 euro for 10 m x 10 m. Nearly choked when I first heard how much but if you use the space well you can grow plenty. I prefer to think about it as 2 euro a week

Thanks very much for all the info redser, happy growing and preserving!

Oldtree

The self sufficiency myth propogated by the tv people is just that a myth. You would need between 2 to 4 acres, be an all rounder with animals and crops and to go at it full time for it to be truly self sufficient and that is just not practible in the modern environment as we need money, qed.

I dont think it is a good idea to look at gardening or vegi growing as an investment in purly financial terms, as this hides the fact that gardening is like any other hobby that you love, it distracts you from your troubles and gives exercise and fresh air and escape at the same time, even the time spent contemplating the needs of a plant in a pot on a windowsil has its mental benefits.

Our lives do not depend on the crop or garden being successful so it needs to be put into perspective and enjoyed for what it is for most people a very worthwhile hobby (that some zealots like me have taken beyond to a fixation )

A failed plant is after all a planting opportunity.

magicbastarder

i was once at a talk given by bob flowerdew on growing your own food.
at the start he asked for a show of hands of people who were going to attempt to become fully self-sufficient.
one guy stuck his hand up.
bob flowerdew: "i hope you like turnips".

magicbastarder

i'd have said courgettes in that situation, btw.
i'd say a 10mx10m allotment would easily produce 100 courgettes a week.

redser7

I havn't tried them and I don't think I will. I hear words like 'triffids' and 'brutes' bandied about a lot!

kevmcguigan

Guys, have you had any experience with the following: Irrigation systems, Hydroponics, Aeroponics, Indoor growing techniques?

Oldtree

gave up on timed drip irrigation in the polytunnel as when I went away for a week, the battery went in the timer in the "on" setting and flooded the place. Now just use trays under pots to keep pots at field capacity and use a hose to do it manually.

redser7

I use a gravity feed system for the tunnel beds. 1000 lt IBC tank, water timer and soaker hoses. Didn't have to water the tunnel once during the summer (apart from with tom food once a week). I reckon I only need to run it mid-May to early september. I read about batteries running out and ruining the timers so I'll put fresh ones in every May whether they need changing or not. They'll easily last the 3 - 4 months of summer. The old ones will be fine for remotes and stuff

kevmcguigan

Ok guys, an update on the direction I am heading with this design. Please feel free to correct or critique wherever you feel its needed.

Initial findings:

90% of people that do not already grow their own are willing to start.
Reasons for this are health benefits, new hobby, feeling of accomplishment.
60% live in a house with garden or yard space
40% live in a flat or apartment with no available outdoor space
Factors stopping them from growing. No available space, Not enough knowledge about growing
Almost all surveyed did not consider giving up their time, to be a 'cost factor' (No money spent)


Initial conclusions:

At the outset I was trying to get people that do not already grow, to start growing their own by offering them a product or service that would make it simpler to begin. Where I have ended up is as follows:

What people want- Raised bed Tables and/or a "Flat-Packed" easy setup garden
For ease of use- Container systems win out
Indoor v Outdoor- 60-40 split in available growing space. So a system that can be adapted to both indoor and outdoor growing would be essential for new starters
For greatest yields- Hydroponics is best


What I have come up with:

A self assembly, modular, soil-less design; utilising passive 'wick' hydroponics system that can be stacked vertically and used indoors or outdoors. Each tray will have a built in reservoir, use 100% expanded perlite as a grow medium (lightest grow medium) with a rock wool mat to germinate seeds or to root cuttings. Each system would need to be supplied with some water soluble organic nutrients and a simple "how-to" guide.

The attached photo is a 3D concept model in a spiral configuration.
The modular system would allow for customised configurations to fit the required spaces.

yellowlabrador

It looks really nice but it looks costly.

kevmcguigan

Hopefully the modular design can help keep costs down. People can chose how many containers they want to start with and add to their collection at a later stage if they want.

Some other configurations:

Oldtree

thats a very clever and imaginative design.

it can be made of the usual pot plastic or a more expensive material depending on the customer or startup investment.

The legs would need to be able to be telescopic or a set size that you can combine 2 or more legs depending on the height of the window.

I take it the little square bit at the front is where the water and nutrients go, need a float of some description to easily tell the gardener how full/empty the reservior is.

What about some sort of vertical stacking? seems like it would be easy to add into design by leg insert circles continuing through module.

redser7

I think it's great what you are trying to achieve. But I think this is a bit too specialised. It's almost half gardening/half furniture. If you are trying to get people to start growing fruit/veg I think this design will turn them off. Also you dont seem to have factored in light for indoor growing. Indoors will need at least close-up flourescent lights. You wouldn't grow very much in those either I'm afraid. I don't think there is a need to reinvent the wheel. There are plenty of kits and grow set-ups already on the market. Hydroponics is a very specialised area. They would have to go back to buy more nutrient. With hydropnics you really need some sort of water movement to introduce oxygen or the roots could suffocate and the water could stagnate and smell. I dont think it is an introductory type technology.
I would ditch the 'fancy' approach and focus on small cost and convenience. Some sort of all in one package. This of course has been done before. B&Q sell cheap kits for kids for example, with containers, compost and seeds all packed in bright colours with veg cartoon characters on teh packaging.
I think lack of knowledge and also the myth that you need green fingers to grow is a stumbling block. Tell them the only thing you need to know is that it is easy. If you could include a website and forum as part of the package that could really work. How To video clips, growing calendars, a resident 'expert' to contribute articles and a forum for advice. Introduce your 'product' as a 'movement' to capture the imagination and stress the ease of use. The fact that 90% of people are willing to give it a go is very encouraging. Adding social media as part of your project could give a unique edge to a well tried and tested industry.
Sorry, I don't mean to knock I just dont see people being inspired to try growing by these so you wont sell any

kevmcguigan

Hi guys, thanks for the comments.

Oldtree, the vertical stacking idea is where I started my initial research with this design and your idea for the legs continued through the modules is exactly what i came up with:)

Redser, I had looked into lighting for indoor use. I had two options for adding grow lights. One was a connection underneath each tray (to light tray below) for use in vertical stacking and the other was basically contained in a clear lid (terrarium style).

I really want to make this system as "passive" as possible. I know for indoor growing people will need to give their crops adequate light, so additional lighting is essential. But the wick system of watering has no need for aeration pumps. Just an overflow hole above the water line for use in outdoor situations. I suppose technically its not strictly hydroponics, but it does remove some of the responsibility of watering the crops from the user.

Also, I had looked into the social media side of things. A forum like this is a great idea. A place for people to share their experiences, tips and tricks, like you have been so kind to do. But it is becoming increasingly costly to maintain a website/smartphone application and generate traffic through it. As well as this, such a website would have to be offered for free to the customer (so many free sites to choose from). It could be feasible to have some sort of affiliation with an already existing gardening website in exchange for selling my product or me generating traffic through their site.

The "package" idea is where I want to go with this redser. A crude description: its a pre-filled tub with layers of large aggregate perlite=> mesh=> horticultural perlite=> rockwool mat. with the wicks pre-installed. The tub would come with a selection of seeds for starter growers and a small collection of water soluble nutirents (enough for first crop cycle) and a simple guide to illustrate how to grow the seeds provided with the tub.
For example we could have a kids set up as mentioned above, with some fruits and sugar snap peas and the like;
or a salad garden with herbs and leafy veg. The idea would be to have many different options available to the customer according to what they would like to grow.

The shape/form and aesthetics of the finished product could also be varied, square, rectangular, triangular; its not set in stone just yet. Or all of the above shapes could be offered in different size options.

Thanks again guys.

joseph brand

lucylu wrote: »

I grow veg really for the sense of achievement.
When you look at the dinner plate and can say that the meat is the only thing that was bought the rest came from outside is fresh and tastes great
I watched a program recently where a potato grower was spraying their potatoes every 7 days.. I grow blight resistant potatoes and only spray our spuds with water.

This year was the worst year I have had growing veg, from seeds not growing, that Super moon Frost on May 5th (killing all my apple blossoms) to the F-N Slugs..
I have been helping my parents since i was a kid growing fruit and veg

Maybe that's what happened to my apples last year. My wife was certain that the neighbours were stealing our apples, as if. Now if I can just keep the wasps away. The sight of 20 wasps crammed into the side of an apple gives me the shivers.

Oldtree

last year was a terrible year for apples, google it. Not good to think neighbours steal things with no proof.