The gaelicisation of the Normans in medieval Ireland

An Sionnach Glic

This is a subject that interests me a lot, but my research has revealed very few, if any, extensive historical books or studies on the subject.

I've found books that address it in a limited manner as part of a wider subject, but not that focus specifically on the subject itself, in Irish or in English. Am I just missing them? Anyone know of some good examples that I may have missed?

Rebelheart

An Sionnach Glic wrote: »

This is a subject that interests me a lot, but my research has revealed very few, if any, extensive historical books or studies on the subject.

I've found books that address it in a limited manner as part of a wider subject, but not that focus specifically on the subject itself, in Irish or in English. Am I just missing them? Anyone know of some good examples that I may have missed?

I assume you've already read the standard work, Kenneth Nicholls, Gaelic and Gaelicised Ireland in the Middle Ages (Dublin, 1972)? It's still in print, and he focuses especially on the gaelicised Norman families in Westmeath.

Katharine Simms is a very good complement to this, specifically in tracking changes in Gaelic military tactics and kingship, as well as in fosterage and feasting in Gaelic Ireland. Art Cosgrave has a decent overview of medieval Ireland and, like Simms, he has also written some very interesting social histories on women, marriage and the like. Colm Lennon's Sixteenth Century Ireland – The Incomplete Conquest (Dublin 1994) is still far and away the best social, cultural and political history of that century. He avoids the obsession of British historians like Steven Ellis who look at Ireland through the prism of English constitutional history in the mode of Geoffrey Elton and instead examines Irish and Latin sources for society from the ground up.

Elizabeth FitzPatrick also did some recent work on Gaelic Ireland that is well regarded, in particular these two. Finally, Anthony M. McCormack did a good study of the gaelicised Fitzgeralds of Desmond which is worth reading, The Earldom of Desmond, 1463-1583 (Dublin, 2005).

Simon.d

Came across these quotes the other day in the "The presentment of the citie of waterford made before the kings comiss the [XII} day of octobre anno XXIX. R.S. H. VII. (07/10/1486)", i.e. a report by Waterford city's jury on some of the local going's on 1486...

In the following Thomas Power of Ballycanvan in the county was reffered to as a Tanist, and the suggestion that the Power's were seen to rule their own sovereign nation (nacyon):
"Item Thoms Power of Balycanvan used to take coyne and lyvey as tanyst, That is to wit, the second capitaigne of his nacyon, and is pclaymed t knowen a coen extorcyoner ov all this countrey, and hathe taken many of the kings liege people, empsonyng them t setting them at fyne t ransome and hather divs theves retaigned to dystres the kings peax"

And in the same document there is this reference to Katherine Butler (I think the widow of Lord Power) using Brehon law:
""They fynde also that she hath ordeyned an Irish Judge called Shane McClaunaghe, and that the said Shane useth Brehens lawe 't ordreth the matts of variance thuse of his Judgement called Oylegeag (a type of brehon payment) xvi stl of evy mk st, and taketh asmouche of the playntif as of the def"

Source: http://openlibrary.org/books/OL14042546M/The_social_state_of_the_southern_and_eastern_counties_of_Ireland_in_the_16th_century_...

An Sionnach Glic

Rebelheart wrote: »

I assume you've already read the standard work, Kenneth Nicholls, Gaelic and Gaelicised Ireland in the Middle Ages (Dublin, 1972)? It's still in print, and he focuses especially on the gaelicised Norman families in Westmeath.

Katharine Simms is a very good complement to this, specifically in tracking changes in Gaelic military tactics and kingship, as well as in fosterage and feasting in Gaelic Ireland. Art Cosgrave has a decent overview of medieval Ireland and, like Simms, he has also written some very interesting social histories on women, marriage and the like. Colm Lennon's Sixteenth Century Ireland – The Incomplete Conquest (Dublin 1994) is still far and away the best social, cultural and political history of that century. He avoids the obsession of British historians like Steven Ellis who look at Ireland through the prism of English constitutional history in the mode of Geoffrey Elton and instead examines Irish and Latin sources for society from the ground up.

Elizabeth FitzPatrick also did some recent work on Gaelic Ireland that is well regarded, in particular these two. Finally, Anthony M. McCormack did a good study of the gaelicised Fitzgeralds of Desmond which is worth reading, The Earldom of Desmond, 1463-1583 (Dublin, 2005).

Thank, Rebelheart. I've read Nicholls' book but must admit that I haven't checked out the other ones you mentioned yet. I'd heard of Colm Lennon's book and must get myself a copy of that at the very least. Thanks for that!

Simon.d wrote: »

Came across these quotes the other day in the "The presentment of the citie of waterford made before the kings comiss the [XII} day of octobre anno XXIX. R.S. H. VII. (07/10/1486)", i.e. a report by Waterford city's jury on some of the local going's on 1486...

In the following Thomas Power of Ballycanvan in the county was reffered to as a Tanist, and the suggestion that the Power's were seen to rule their own sovereign nation (nacyon):
"Item Thoms Power of Balycanvan used to take coyne and lyvey as tanyst, That is to wit, the second capitaigne of his nacyon, and is pclaymed t knowen a coen extorcyoner ov all this countrey, and hathe taken many of the kings liege people, empsonyng them t setting them at fyne t ransome and hather divs theves retaigned to dystres the kings peax"

And in the same document there is this reference to Katherine Butler (I think the widow of Lord Power) using Brehon law:
""They fynde also that she hath ordeyned an Irish Judge called Shane McClaunaghe, and that the said Shane useth Brehens lawe 't ordreth the matts of variance thuse of his Judgement called Oylegeag (a type of brehon payment) xvi stl of evy mk st, and taketh asmouche of the playntif as of the def"

Source: http://openlibrary.org/books/OL14042546M/The_social_state_of_the_southern_and_eastern_counties_of_Ireland_in_the_16th_century_...

Very interesting, Simon.d. The prevalence of Irish in the towns during the Middle Ages and early-modern period is also something that is under-studied, I think. While Irish was clearly never the language of administration in the towns and cities, the amount of it spoken by the people in their homes and on the streets seems to have been very widespread. Apparently even Dublin City Council felt the need to draft bylaws to ban its use in the marketplaces as late as the Cromwellian period, so it must have been consider a big "problem" at the time.

goose2005

Also, intermarriage with Gaelic nobles was common, so a lot of "Normans" were 1/4 or 1/2 Irish or more.