Gas boiler leaking water

Lucyn · 26-10-2012 9:19pm #1

My gas boiler is leaking water. I've had two different guys out to fix it and it's still leaking. The first guy messed me around for a full week until he eventually turned up. He fitted a new safety valve. That seemed to solve it for a few weeks then it started leaking again. I rang a different guy who came and fitted a second safety valve underneath the first one. He said if it keeps leaking he would drill a hole in the wall and route the water outside. I would really prefer to get the actual leak fixed.

The boiler is a vokera, regularly serviced, 10 years old and no problems before this. I'm in the Sallins area and would really appreciate any advice and in particular recommendations for someone to fix it. I'm so tired of being messed around and just want to sort it.

Thanks in advance.

kanji · 26-10-2012 9:54pm

The expansion vessel in your boiler is either faulty or the air pressure charge is gone.

When water is heated it expands so an expansion vessel is used to take up that expansion. When the expansion vessel is not working it leads to the pressure increasing over the 3 bar that the safety valve is set at causing a leak

There should never be a safety valve fitted onto another safety valve.

Your safety valve does needs to be piped to a safe place though(ideally outside) as its job is to release excess pressure from the system which could potentially be steam!

Robbie.G · 26-10-2012 9:56pm

Lucyn wrote: »

My gas boiler is leaking water. I've had two different guys out to fix it and it's still leaking. The first guy messed me around for a full week until he eventually turned up. He fitted a new safety valve. That seemed to solve it for a few weeks then it started leaking again. I rang a different guy who came and fitted a second safety valve underneath the first one. He said if it keeps leaking he would drill a hole in the wall and route the water outside. I would really prefer to get the actual leak fixed.

The boiler is a vokera, regularly serviced, 10 years old and no problems before this. I'm in the Sallins area and would really appreciate any advice and in particular recommendations for someone to fix it. I'm so tired of being messed around and just want to sort it.

Thanks in advance.

Get rid of those boys they don't seem to have a clue.You do not fit a secondary prv they are set to go off at 3 bar so two times that.If the boiler water pressure is below 1-1.5 bar when the system is cold ie not over pressurised it is most likely that the expansion vessel needs recharging or replacing.That is not a major job for any rgi that is competent

JohnnieK · 27-10-2012 8:11am

Yeah what's the craic there? Seeing loads of that on my travels lately. Two prv's fitted. Even seen one with a penny valve on it.

Going by the new rgi guidance book the vessel on the boiler needs to be replaced and not a new one in the hotpress like what was usually done. This might make it a little bit more expensive because the boiler might need to come off to get at it.

kanji · 27-10-2012 8:32am

JohnnieK wrote: »

Yeah what's the craic there? Seeing loads of that on my travels lately. Two prv's fitted. Even seen one with a penny valve on it.

Goons:rolleyes:

markaarkgas · 27-10-2012 12:45pm

you have really got two muppets so far, call someone that knows what their at.

Lucyn · 27-10-2012 12:58pm

Thanks a million for all your replies. I agree completely that they were both muppets and that's why I don't know who to get now. I got the first guy from a rgi website and the second guy on recommendation by my electrician. I'm no expert but I wasn't at all comfortable with the second safety valve being fitted. It doesn't solve the problem. Yes I read here on other threads that it should be piped outside which I'll get done but again it doesn't solve the initial problem.

Can any of you help me with recommendations of who to ring? (or is that allowed? If not, sorry for asking) It's not like I'm looking to get the job done for nothing!!!

markaarkgas · 27-10-2012 1:02pm

pm me and will try sort it out for you

Lucyn · 27-10-2012 1:02pm

kanji wrote: »

The expansion vessel in your boiler is either faulty or the air pressure charge is gone.

When water is heated it expands so an expansion vessel is used to take up that expansion. When the expansion vessel is not working it leads to the pressure increasing over the 3 bar that the safety valve is set at causing a leak

There should never be a safety valve fitted onto another safety valve.

Your safety valve does needs to be piped to a safe place though(ideally outside) as its job is to release excess pressure from the system which could potentially be steam!

Thanks for that, you've explained it very well. Hopefully I'll have a good handle on it for the next guy I get (whoever that may be). Sometimes I feel that they take advantage a little bit because they think the customer doesn't have a clue (which they probably don't but still!)

K.Flyer · 27-10-2012 4:57pm

Who in their right mind fits another safety valve in line with a safety valve thats totally moronic and dangerous ffs.

DGOBS · 27-10-2012 8:01pm

Have seen 4 in a row...kid you not (oil boiler) water pressure was at 5 bar when I arrived!

K.Flyer · 28-10-2012 11:46am

DGOBS wrote: »

Have seen 4 in a row...kid you not (oil boiler) water pressure was at 5 bar when I arrived!

Might as well have stuck a blank onto the first one. Where do people get these ideas from.

Villaines · 31-10-2012 3:35pm

I have the same problem. Just started today. Did you get it sorted OP?

First thought is the expansion vessel. Called an RGI suggested it could be the heat exchanger. If it is that I'll be thinking about replacing the boiler.

It's a c13 year old Vokera Mynute 20 SE.

I've been living here 4 months and the boiler has always shown low pressure when cold. Doesn't increase when I try to top up.

The water that is leaking is cold, even when feed and return were hot. I'm thinking if it is the heat exchanger, the water would be warm?

markaarkgas · 31-10-2012 4:17pm

very hard to determine what your problem is without further details , as would only be guessing , bite the bullet and call out a rgi to sort the issue. as you have not relly got any other options.

DGOBS · 31-10-2012 4:43pm

That scary bit is the RGI said 'could be the heatexchanger' did he not check?

markaarkgas · 31-10-2012 4:49pm

only called a rgi, he will only be guessing as well. get someone out.

DGOBS · 31-10-2012 6:55pm

might be best, after all water, electricity and gas dont mix well!

Villaines · 01-11-2012 7:38am

DGOBS wrote: »

might be best, after all water, electricity and gas dont mix well!

Had the RGI out last night. Looked it over, suspected water was coming in from outside from the flue after rain ?????

Didn't charge me anything, said it was fine to use. 15 minutes after he was gone, water is streaming out of the boiler again.

Now I know nothing about boilers, but I think comments regarding the expansion vessel requires further investigation given the time before which the boiler starts leaking.

I followed his instruction, which was to look to see where it was coming from. I will post pic. It is coming from area between the chamber and the red block at the back.

Seriously in need of someone with good experience of repairing these boilers. I'm not far from the OP, north east Kildare.

Villaines · 01-11-2012 7:48am

See pic - water is leaking from this - I don't think it is from area touching the chamber, I see that is actually separate.

Lucyn · 01-11-2012 11:16am

Villaines wrote: »

I have the same problem. Just started today. Did you get it sorted OP?

First thought is the expansion vessel. Called an RGI suggested it could be the heat exchanger. If it is that I'll be thinking about replacing the boiler.

It's a c13 year old Vokera Mynute 20 SE.

I've been living here 4 months and the boiler has always shown low pressure when cold. Doesn't increase when I try to top up.

The water that is leaking is cold, even when feed and return were hot. I'm thinking if it is the heat exchanger, the water would be warm?

Hi, it turned out to be my expansion vessel. Completely fecked. The two new safety valves are also gone due to the pressure put on them from the fecked expansion vessel. One of the safety valves has now been removed and new expansion vessel and new safety valve should be fitted on Saturday. Fingers crossed this time because I'm so cheesed off at this stage.

Thanks to everyone here and especially Markarckgas who was great at helping me isolate the problem.

Just to say I had a problem years ago with a different boiler(different house) that just gave up and again after much to-ing and fro-ing it turned out the the inside of it was all rusted from rainwater getting in! :eek: The builders had fitted it incorrectly apparantly? It cost me a brand new boiler that time.

Yeah, I don't have much luck with gas boilers (and yes I do get them serviced every year etc!)

Thanks again folks.

markaarkgas · 01-11-2012 1:04pm

cant see why pressure relief valve s fecked , at least if you replace pressure vessel should be back in action , keep the water pressure doiwn betwwen 1 -1.5bar and everything should be hunky dorry.

.jacksparrow. · 01-11-2012 2:01pm

markaarkgas wrote: »

cant see why pressure relief valve s fecked , at least if you replace pressure vessel should be back in action , keep the water pressure doiwn betwwen 1 -1.5bar and everything should be hunky dorry.

Once they start leaking they don't seal properly most of the time.

Villaines · 01-11-2012 3:02pm

Lucyn wrote: »

Hi, it turned out to be my expansion vessel. Completely fecked. The two new safety valves are also gone due to the pressure put on them from the fecked expansion vessel. One of the safety valves has now been removed and new expansion vessel and new safety valve should be fitted on Saturday. Fingers crossed this time because I'm so cheesed off at this stage.

Thanks to everyone here and especially Markarckgas who was great at helping me isolate the problem.

Just to say I had a problem years ago with a different boiler(different house) that just gave up and again after much to-ing and fro-ing it turned out the the inside of it was all rusted from rainwater getting in! :eek: The builders had fitted it incorrectly apparantly? It cost me a brand new boiler that time.

Yeah, I don't have much luck with gas boilers (and yes I do get them serviced every year etc!)

Thanks again folks.

Could you please PM me the name & number of the guy you used. Thanks.

K.Flyer · 01-11-2012 8:07pm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Once they start leaking they don't seal properly most of the time.

Agreed, and as the boiler has been drained to do the vessel its only prudent to change the prv while you are at it, saving a lot of trouble later if it was to leak.

Leiva · 02-11-2012 1:32pm

Hope this is not a hijack...

but the pipe that comes out the side of my house from the boiler is constantly dripping water and now causing damp patch on the outside dashing..any idea what I should report the fault as when calling a rgi ?

kanji · 02-11-2012 1:42pm

Is a condensing boiler? If so it could be the condense drain incorrectly terminated.

If not it's most likely the same issue as the OP's

cubix · 03-11-2012 4:08pm

JohnnieK wrote: »

Going by the new rgi guidance book the vessel on the boiler needs to be replaced and not a new one in the hotpress like what was usually done. This might make it a little bit more expensive because the boiler might need to come off to get at it.

Anyone know why RGII would not recommend fitting a secondary epansion vessel else where (hotpress)

shane0007 · 03-11-2012 6:28pm

2 reasons:

1. They are cheaper than the slimline vessels that are incorporated into system boilers.
2. They can be sized to suit the volume of the water within the system. Typically, the vessel should be sized as 11% of the total volume of the water within the heating system. Gas boiler vessels are generally around 8 litres. An average radiator is approx 10 litres, plus the volume on all the pipe work, the boiler heat exchanger volume plus the DHW cylinder coil volume.

Just make sure an isolation valve and a drain cock is used if it is located elsewhere as during the annual service, the vessel pressure will need to be checked and water must be drained away from the vessel in order to do this.

JohnnieK · 03-11-2012 6:42pm

shane0007 wrote: »

2 reasons:

1. They are cheaper than the slimline vessels that are incorporated into system boilers.
2. They can be sized to suit the volume of the water within the system. Typically, the vessel should be sized as 11% of the total volume of the water within the heating system. Gas boiler vessels are generally around 8 litres. An average radiator is approx 10 litres, plus the volume on all the pipe work, the boiler heat exchanger volume plus the DHW cylinder coil volume.

Just make sure an isolation valve and a drain cock is used if it is located elsewhere as during the annual service, the vessel pressure will need to be checked and water must be drained away from the vessel in order to do this.

I might just add that the isolation valve should be a lock shield type so no third party can accidentally turn it off.

K.Flyer · 03-11-2012 8:18pm

shane0007 wrote: »

....

Just make sure an isolation valve and a drain cock is used if it is located elsewhere as during the annual service, the vessel pressure will need to be checked and water must be drained away from the vessel in order to do this.

It still amazes me the amount of times that the vessel is NOT properly checked during a service.

shane0007 · 03-11-2012 8:24pm

cubix wrote: »

Anyone know why RGII would not recommend fitting a secondary epansion vessel else where (hotpress)

Sorry I misread your post not reading the "not".
There is no reason why you could not install an expansion vessel external to the boiler. In fact, it is always advisable to install a second vessel to the manufacturers vessel as this will generally be under-sized for the system.

JohnnieK · 04-11-2012 12:27pm

It should be installed on the return pipe as close to the boiler as practical with no isolating valves between it and the boiler. That would be hard to do with a system boiler. Has it in the latest book we all got of RIG. They took it from the CIBSE guide.

cubix · 04-11-2012 12:45pm

Thanks, couple of questions. We had an expansion vessel fitted in the hotpress as the pressure dial on the boiler was jumping around a bit and system would then lose water over a very short period (2weeks) but never to the point it would not fire, thinks its more a case of a leak. The vessel we have is approx 12" high by 10" wide, for a normal 3bed semi D with 9 rads & a HW cyclinder what size/litre vessel would you lads normally fit, if vessel is too big whats the down side.
There would apprear to be no drain off on this one and it is piped into what looks like the return coming out of the HW cyclinder coil. What are these vessels normally set to pressure wise and how would you check whats in them, bicycle pump?

cubix · 04-11-2012 3:14pm

Just to add, will the normal chemicals cleaners clear scale build up in a heat exchanger or does this require another bottle

tinkerbell · 04-11-2012 3:18pm

Why don't you just go directly to Vokera and get them to send one of their guys out to fix it?

managatsuo · 14-11-2016 5:36pm

Hi my gas boiler started to leak water which caused pressure to drop. I open the boiler and water is dripping just under the air valve or safety valve , anyone has experience how much it will cost me to fix it?

managatsuo · 14-11-2016 5:38pm

I closed the dust cap completely ,but the thing is still leaking, if that info helps. I took some pictures , but not able ti upload it as I need to have at least 5 posts.

drewmichael · 07-01-2018 6:19pm

my gas boiler gave an error that it needed more water, I put more in so the pressure gauge was at 0.5 bars. But then it wouldn't come on, it would try to spark but not light and then go to a safety time out I think. During this time it wouldn't come on a small water leak was coming from the he boiler. I called a friend Plummer who took an age to come out and before he came out (about 2 days later) the boiler started working again without anyone attending to it.
The water pressure has dropped a couple more times since and I had to refill but it didn't cause the same issue. But now it's happening same again, water slightly leaking from boiler and the boiler not igniting and going into an error. I guess it's time for someone to take a look for sure but any idea as to what these signs could be? simple valve to be replaced? Is the boiler fecked?

Gas boiler leaking water

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