Syndicates

mr.jingle

Never been with a syndicate but like most it would be great to be involved with a horse and being able to take it over to Cheltenham or another major meeting. Was just looking about and some of the fees are crazy unless your pretty well off or there is a big crowd involved therefore keeping costs down.

Paul Nicholls is advertising this on his pages: http://www.axom.co.uk/horses/vibrato_valtat

A horse called Vibrato Valtat.

£1,000 up front and then £229 instalments for the next 19 months until the syndicate ends in May 2014 all for 1/25th share in the horse! Thats madness to be fair but it would get the best possible training and does look like a nice horse. Major luck is involved i'd imagine as there is so much racing nowadays and the prizemoney is less than great.

Have any of you's been involved in syndicates and have any of ya's been successful?

arkle121

theres cheaper syndicates out there even free leases on some horses nichols is the cream of the crop hence big bills .i would say start small and build from there.

Szewinska

I am involved in a syndicate and we are running at Naas tomorrow. if you enjoy racing syndicates are superb craic and a serious buzz hen things work out. You have to be prepared for plenty of disappointments too.

Overthelast

£5.5 / 0.8 = €6.9K X 25 = €172K. Yes, that's rather pricey.

Ran one or two syndicates in the past, with some success. Am involved with one at the moment as a member rather than manager - a lot easier. Horse hasn't run yet so cannot say its been a success or failure.

There are syndicates advertised in the racing papers quite regularly. Depends on your budget Mr Jingle. If money is not a problem & your based in the UK, go with Nicholls. If your based on this side of the pond, and you want to see your pony run, then its probably best to book in with an Irish syndicate.

The price you pay for the animal doesn't always correlate to success on the track.

As arkle121 pointed out, perhaps start small, get a feel for whats involved & then take it from there.

Best of luck if you do get involved in racehorse ownership - it will certainly increase your knowledge of the game no end.

Colonel Sanders

Didn't one of the Brave Inca lads used to post on here?

UrbanSea

Yeah I think his name was Cantoris. Think he posts under Winning Ways Racing or something like that. I know he's in a few syndicates with Colm Murphy

kincsem

I was in a racing club. They would "rent" horses for a period. We were told we would pay the training fees and entries and get a share of the prizemoney. One of the horses won four times and over €100k. No return. We were told the registered owner won the prizemoney.

I had a share in a horse (about ten people.) It was an initial purchase payment plus monthly training and other fees. We were told it was ready to run at the start of the flat season. There were numerous excuses why it did not run. Around the very end of the flat season I took a day off work. I was stopped in the car at traffic lights. I looked at the results in the Racing Post and was shocked to see our horse had run without us being told. The second shock was the comment "Slowly away and always behind, broke leg 1f out, dead".

Save your money. If a horse is any good you are not getting it. And you might find if the horse becomes a superstar you did not actually own it. Look up Derby winner Motivator if you need to wise up about "ownership".

Overthelast

kincsem wrote: »

I was in a racing club. They would "rent" horses for a period. We were told we would pay the training fees and entries and get a share of the prizemoney. One of the horses won four times and over €100k. No return. We were told the registered owner won the prizemoney.

I had a share in a horse (about ten people.) It was an initial purchase payment plus monthly training and other fees. We were told it was ready to run at the start of the flat season. There were numerous excuses why it did not run. Around the very end of the flat season I took a day off work. I was stopped in the car at traffic lights. I looked at the results in the Racing Post and was shocked to see our horse had run without us being told. The second shock was the comment "Slowly away and always behind, broke leg 1f out, dead".

Save your money. If a horse is any good you are not getting it. And you might find if the horse becomes a superstar you did not actually own it. Look up Derby winner Motivator if you need to wise up about "ownership".

That sounds horrendous and would put anyone off ownership. While I don't doubt anything you have posted, that experience, I hope, is a thing of the past. When I first got involved, I got a small share in a horse that ran once in a p2p and pulled up. I knew very little and was naieve to get involved. But that's hindsight. And it was my relatives horse! While well meaning of my relatives, the trainer was poor and his methods/ways were worse. About 5 yr's later, went looking to get involved and was offered a half share of a horse for 30k. A little bit if research told me the pony was worthless. That was from a former grand national winning trainer. Needless to say he has not exactly flourished since. It's then I went ahead and organised a couple myself. Luck had a great deal to play, but a bit of research helped me avoid further pitfalls.

The syndicate mgr's primary role is to keep members informed. Sounds like he failed you on both occasions, which is unforgivable.

kincsem

I put up as much as I could of the pedigree of Vibrato Vattat on pedigreequery.com
http://www.pedigreequery.com/vibrato+valtat

Edit: Completed the pedigree

salientsix

I've been involved in a few horses in my time & currently own 50% interest a mare. The few words of advice I would give you is never get involved in a lease horse, too many anomolies & contradictions. Start small as has already been said & then hope you get lucky. The higher you aim up the foodchain, the more you will pay for in terms of fees & entries. That being said, it's great fun but if you're getting into horse racing with a view to finding the next Best Mate & making a fortune, find something else to do with your money. I wish you all the best.

Shelflife

Ive been involved in a racing club and 3 syndicates, i wouldnt recommend the club as you are just a number and have no involvement in the horse.

Three syndicates were under www.winningwaysracing.ie . To date we have had one which won 2 races , went to cheltenham , one which died on the gallops and one just getting ready to run.

as you can see we had the highs and lows , its a well run syndicate and everything is set out in the agreement so its all plain to see what you are entering into.

Its very enjoyable and frustrating at the same time.

Nothing beats seeing your horse hitting the finishing post first.

Winning Ways Racing

I haven't been on here for a while. Been busy with our five horses and we purchased one during the Summer and also have two mares on lease. I wouldn't put anyone off the latter but I made up my own lease agreements with their owners and then syndicate agreements with members. One was done on our normal basis of 10 members per syndicate and the other was a Facebook style syndicate where 2.5% shares were sold and 70% of those were placed. Both should be on the track in the next month, touch wood. There are five new graded races for mares and mmore incentives on the way. We have a full sister to Master of the Hall and half sister to For Bill so we aimed for quality breeding, right horse and hopefully winners.

There are a few syndicate options in Ireland. Ourselves, obviously, Byerley Racing, Supreme Racing, Stablegate Racing etc. All have different styles/price points but all have been successful in the big and small arena. If I was joining a syndicate, I'd like to know I was part of one syndicate, not a club type operation. I'd like to know how democratic it is.....would I have a say? What is the breakdown of the fee paid i.e. how much goes to feeding and racing the horse and how much goes to feeding the syndicate manager (I state how much I get paid, everything else is at cost)? And then there's communication and stable visits (communication ever week or two, visits every month).

Of course, you need to fit the right owner with the right horse. If you are willing to wait in the hope of having a Gold Cup horse, then buy a store, but be patient. If you just want a winner anywhere, try buying at the horses in training sales. If you want a quick result, buy a flat horse.

Happy to run through my experience of costs.

arkle121

kincsem wrote: »

I was in a racing club. They would "rent" horses for a period. We were told we would pay the training fees and entries and get a share of the prizemoney. One of the horses won four times and over €100k. No return. We were told the registered owner won the prizemoney.

hi kinscem
you should go too the turf club they would deal with this very severly they dont take any messing like that.

Harry Angstrom

I remember Clement Freud not being a happy bunny after Motivator's Derby victory. If you can't make a decent few quid for owning a share in a Derby winner then there's not much hope for anyone. I've always thought that racing syndicates/clubs exist to provide employment and a nice little income for the people who run them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-391586/Why-long-face-Clement.html

convert

Being told is very different to having it written in a signed contract. If anyone is leasing a horse, I would recommend, as with any contract anyone signs/enters into, that they read it with great care to see what's in it. Anyone who's thinking of leasing a horse should really get in touch/chat with someone who knows about leasing agreements before a contract is signed.

Overthelast

There have been some tales of woe here & I'd say plenty more undocumented.

If your going to have dinner in a restaurant, you have a read of the menu first (whats edible, price etc).

When you buy a car, you have a look at the log book & at least take a cursory look under the hood before purchasing.

If your getting involved in Racehorse ownership, under whatever structure/guise, do take a little time to read what your signing up for.

Just read the Clement Freud (RIP) article. I'm surprised for a man so well read that he didn't take time between sipping a fine Savignon Blanc to read the members rules before parting with his hard earned cash. Just goes to show, we're all fallible!

The lesson here is research & read everything before getting involved. Having said that, the nervous excitement generated from seeing your own horse, in your chosen colours, take its first steps from the sanctury of the parade ring and gallop off down to the start for its first bumper race is like nothing else. Its an expensive hobby, but I can think of worse ways of blowing money. (I drive a 15yr old car )

Winning Ways Racing

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I've always thought that racing syndicates/clubs exist to provide employment and a nice little income for the people who run them.

Each syndicate/club should be viewed on its own merits of course. That's why I charge cost to members plus a set management fee. You can clearly see what I make. What frustrates me is the manager pushing the "all-in" fees. For three months every year the horse costs pretty much nothing as its out in a field but the manager trousers the all-in fee for those three months. Pure profit. Then they will say "but it covers all those expensive vet fees". If your horse ends up going for surgery and costing €2k, it won't be in training for a few months, saving the €2k. Its all a gimmick. Cost price+ is the best way to go if you are a member.

As for leasing, you have got to look at the lease. In fact, the manager should provide it to members and make them aware of its contents. Once it makes sense and owner can't demand horse back, then you are fine. I did up my own two page lease agreement for piece of mind.

meriwether

We nearly had a syndicate here a few years back, on a horse called 'Archaeologist' trained by Paul Gilligan.

The owner used to post here, and offered shares to be taken if if said horse ran to a certain standard in a particular race. He'd didn't do very well though so it fell away.

From wjat i rememebr of my conversation witht he owner, you are looking at a monthly training fee (a grand) plus entry fees, vet fees, harrier, etc etc etc.

I'd say general monthly running costs for a typical horse could be 2k without breaking sweat (I'm just guessing).

Winning Ways Racing

€1,200 a month is a good starting point with the mid tier trainers. Some will give all-in for that. If not, then set aside €150-200 a month for various vets, shoes, doses etc.

The bills mount when you have to go travelling, either to the races or schooling. That could be €200 when you add €50 for the track, €50 for the rider, €50 for the diesel etc etc. I'd set aside €500 a race and there's a few hundred in HRI fees per annum.

We work on basis of €20k per annum budget and we never spend it, even when racing.