Configuring Belkin router as access point for Cisco 3925

frankled

I'm trying to use my existing Belkin router as an access point for my Cisco 3925. This is to strengthen the wireless signal in the room I plan on having the Belkin in as well as wiring a PS3 to the Belkin in order to get better speeds on the PS3.

The Belkin's model number is F5D9230-4. So far I can't get it to work. I have set the Cisco to allow repeaters and put in the Belkin's WLAN MAC address, as well as changing the SSID and password of the Belkin to match the Cisco. (I have also tried it without doing these things)

As soon as I specify the new IP for the Belkin (192.168.1.1, and have also tried 192.168.1.100) it tries to go to http://192.168.1.1/wireless_apt_enabled but this is where I fall down. Now no address works to access the Belkin (which is wired to my laptop) and I have to perform a hard reset to start the process over again.

Anybody any ideas?

frankled

Anybody have any ideas on this?

agricamera

frankled wrote: »

I'm trying to use my existing Belkin router as an access point for my Cisco 3925. This is to strengthen the wireless signal in the room I plan on having the Belkin in as well as wiring a PS3 to the Belkin in order to get better speeds on the PS3.

The Belkin's model number is F5D9230-4. So far I can't get it to work. I have set the Cisco to allow repeaters and put in the Belkin's WLAN MAC address, as well as changing the SSID and password of the Belkin to match the Cisco. (I have also tried it without doing these things)

As soon as I specify the new IP for the Belkin (192.168.1.1, and have also tried 192.168.1.100) it tries to go to http://192.168.1.1/wireless_apt_enabled but this is where I fall down. Now no address works to access the Belkin (which is wired to my laptop) and I have to perform a hard reset to start the process over again.

Anybody any ideas?

Are you setting a unique IP on the Belkin router?

Set your laptop to static ip address 192.168.2.10 subnet 255.255.255.0

no default gateway or dns

Connect the Belkin to your laptop.

Go to the Belkin default IP (192.168.2.1 I assume)

Change the IP to whatever you want so it is on the same subnet as the rest of your network) (it must not have the same IP as anything else).

I think you also have to change the IP of the wireless adaptor separately on the Belkin but I'm not sure.


If I am honest the Belkin device is an antique and I expect you will slow your network down more than you will speed it up.


If you are hoping to connect the Belkin wireless back to the Cisco, and use the Belkin as a repeater / booster, that isn't going to work. You will need to run a cable from the Belkin to the Cisco and disable DHCP / NAT / Firewall on the Belkin.

frankled

agricamera wrote: »

Are you setting a unique IP on the Belkin router?

Set your laptop to static ip address 192.168.2.10 subnet 255.255.255.0

no default gateway or dns

Connect the Belkin to your laptop.

Go to the Belkin default IP (192.168.2.1 I assume)

Change the IP to whatever you want so it is on the same subnet as the rest of your network) (it must not have the same IP as anything else).

I think you also have to change the IP of the wireless adaptor separately on the Belkin but I'm not sure.


If I am honest the Belkin device is an antique and I expect you will slow your network down more than you will speed it up.


If you are hoping to connect the Belkin wireless back to the Cisco, and use the Belkin as a repeater / booster, that isn't going to work. You will need to run a cable from the Belkin to the Cisco and disable DHCP / NAT / Firewall on the Belkin.

Thanks for the reply. I set the IP to be within the network of the Cisco (from 192.168.2.1 to 192.168.1.100- guaranteed to be unique). The Belkin has a feature for setting it as a Wireless Access point, so it should work, but I've read that they can be awkward with non-Belkin devices. So as you put it, it is an antique. Pity, it gave me better coverage than the Cisco did, and I have two other reasons for setting it up as an AP- to wire a PS3 to it being the main one, as the PS3 is getting awful speeds and is only in the next room to the Cisco.

joujoujou

agricamera wrote: »

[...]


If you are hoping to connect the Belkin wireless back to the Cisco, and use the Belkin as a repeater / booster, that isn't going to work. You will need to run a cable from the Belkin to the Cisco and disable DHCP / NAT / Firewall on the Belkin.

Confirming that. Even if (with extremely big amount of luck) you'd be able to force them to work in bridge mode, do not expect decent speeds.

Just wire them both up and set belkin to work as simple access point.

frankled

joujoujou wrote: »

Confirming that. Even if (with extremely big amount of luck) you'd be able to force them to work in bridge mode, do not expect decent speeds.

Just wire them both up and set belkin to work as simple access point.

All I want to accomplish is to set it up as a simple access point, wirelessly, but even that won't work for some reason. A receiver for signal for the PS3 would suffice.

joujoujou

As I wrote, forget about wireless connection between them. Spend couple of euros for ethernet cable and enjoy.

From my own experience - it is highly not recommended to connect wirelessly any stand alone devices like game console, desktop computer, TV set, Blu-ray player, satellite box etc. Wireless is good for mobile units. Also, wireless connection's speed depends on overall radio condition around you - download, install and launch free app called inSSIDer - you'll see how many networks are around you. The more networks, the lower speed you can expect. Application will show you only networks - it will not show any wireless cameras, microvawe ovens, wireless mice, baby monitors, etc. - and they're badly affect wi-fi reception as well, cos 99% of them work on 2.4GHz (as wi-fi).

frankled

joujoujou wrote: »

As I wrote, forget about wireless connection between them. Spend couple of euros for ethernet cable and enjoy.

From my own experience - it is highly not recommended to connect wirelessly any stand alone devices like game console, desktop computer, TV set, Blu-ray player, satellite box etc. Wireless is good for mobile units. Also, wireless connection's speed depends on overall radio condition around you - download, install and launch free app called inSSIDer - you'll see how many networks are around you. The more networks, the lower speed you can expect. Application will show you only networks - it will not show any wireless cameras, microvawe ovens, wireless mice, baby monitors, etc. - and they're badly affect wi-fi reception as well, cos 99% of them work on 2.4GHz (as wi-fi).

Yeah I've given up on wireless between them at this stage, although I still don't understand why it would not work. I have inSSIDer, and overall the network is good. The problem lies with the PS3. I will get decent speeds with a laptop right beside the PS3, and ethernet isn't really an option.

Thanks all the same.

agricamera

frankled wrote: »

Yeah I've given up on wireless between them at this stage, although I still don't understand why it would not work. I have inSSIDer, and overall the network is good. The problem lies with the PS3. I will get decent speeds with a laptop right beside the PS3, and ethernet isn't really an option.

It will work :cool: You've just got to get the right kit and set it up right.

If you set it up like so..


broadband--cable--Belkin WiFi )))))))))) WiFi Client Bridge--cable--PS3 it will work fine.


But trying to do

broadband---Belkin WiFi )))))))))) WiFi Client Bridge ))))))))) PS3 will never work well.

The wifi radio can only transmit or receive at one time - not both simultaneously. So to do as the second diagram, it has to spend half its time receiving and half transmitting - so the throughput is instantly halved in the best possible case.

Have you considered HomePlug (powerline) network? You can also use them to improve the wireless signal around your house.

frankled

agricamera wrote: »

It will work :cool: You've just got to get the right kit and set it up right.

If you set it up like so..


broadband--cable--Belkin WiFi )))))))))) WiFi Client Bridge--cable--PS3 it will work fine.


But trying to do

broadband---Belkin WiFi )))))))))) WiFi Client Bridge ))))))))) PS3 will never work well.

The wifi radio can only transmit or receive at one time - not both simultaneously. So to do as the second diagram, it has to spend half its time receiving and half transmitting - so the throughput is instantly halved in the best possible case.

Have you considered HomePlug (powerline) network? You can also use them to improve the wireless signal around your house.

Sorry you've lost me there a bit. The Belkin should work as a simple access point though, yes? A repeater, in other words. It has this capability in the config page, I went through the correct method to set this up but it does not work, probably, I'm guessing, because Belkins (especially old ones) are awkward with other brands (so I've read).

What I was trying to achieve was the below:
Cisco EPC3925 ) ) ) Belkin [formally router, now in AP mode] --- PS3.

The Belkin is perfectly capable of decent speeds, regardless of age. (54Mbps is what I get wired from UPC anyway). The PS3 is the problem, regardless of router or position relative to it. Ideally ethernet would be best but this is awkward, and I am thinking of Homeplugs, but I want to make sure the Belkin is definitely a no-go as AP/repeater.

The Cisco's signal strength is not as good as the Belkin's was either, so I feel putting the Belkin to use would be good for this also. Thanks for your help again.

agricamera

frankled wrote: »

Sorry you've lost me there a bit. The Belkin should work as a simple access point though, yes? A repeater, in other words. It has this capability in the config page, I went through the correct method to set this up but it does not work, probably, I'm guessing, because Belkins (especially old ones) are awkward with other brands (so I've read).

What I was trying to achieve was the below:
Cisco EPC3925 ) ) ) Belkin [formally router, now in AP mode] --- PS3.

The Belkin is perfectly capable of decent speeds, regardless of age. (54Mbps is what I get wired from UPC anyway). The PS3 is the problem, regardless of router or position relative to it. Ideally ethernet would be best but this is awkward, and I am thinking of Homeplugs, but I want to make sure the Belkin is definitely a no-go as AP/repeater.

The Cisco's signal strength is not as good as the Belkin's was either, so I feel putting the Belkin to use would be good for this also. Thanks for your help again.

What you have described above is with the Belkin in 'Bridge' mode.

An access point is when you are literally creating a 'point' where you can wirelessly 'access' the network.

An access point would always needs to be cabled back to the network with an ethernet cable.


In Bridge mode, or Client Bridge, you are bridging the wireless network back to a wired network (that you can then connect to the PS3 with a cable - which is I think what you want to do?)

Does the Belkin have Bridge mode (or maybe WDS in the settings page?)


A repeater is something completely different again. A repeater would have no ethernet cables connected to it at all, it simply repeats an existing signal.

frankled

agricamera wrote: »

What you have described above is with the Belkin in 'Bridge' mode.

An access point is when you are literally creating a 'point' where you can wirelessly 'access' the network.

An access point would always needs to be cabled back to the network with an ethernet cable.


In Bridge mode, or Client Bridge, you are bridging the wireless network back to a wired network (that you can then connect to the PS3 with a cable - which is I think what you want to do?)

Does the Belkin have Bridge mode (or maybe WDS in the settings page?)


A repeater is something completely different again. A repeater would have no ethernet cables connected to it at all, it simply repeats an existing signal.

Right so it seems I had access point and bridge mode mixed up in my head. How about the repeater option then? (I had thought, from Googling it, that this was the same as AP)

joujoujou

You expect to get 54Mbit/s in that configuration? Keep dreaming. 54Mbit/s is not you'd be able to achieve ever. Read:

[...] Advertised Speeds = Max Air Data Rate

The numbers you see on the product website or packaging is the max air data rate that the system can support, e.g. 54Mbps or 300Mbps. This rate is not the actual speed that you can move data across the link at! The air data rate is the combination of:

Your user data
Wireless error correction data
Network protocol overhead
Wireless communications that allow the AP and clients to get and stay connected
Space taken up by encryption
Retransmissions
And more!

As you can see, there is a lot more than just your data going over the air. It’s unfortunate that the manufacturers advertise the air data rate instead of the actual TCP (network protocol) throughput because it can be very misleading.
The Actual Throughput Numbers

A good rule of thumb for determining actual speed capability is half of the air data rate. So if the device says it can do “54 Mbps” you can probably get about 27Mbps through it. Note, the half-speed rule only applies to optimal connections with good signal strength and no significant interference. If your connection is poor then you won’t see even half of the advertised speed.

Here are a few examples of typical max advertised speeds and actual TCP performance:

802.11b Advertised: 11Mbps | Actual: 5-6Mbps
802.11g or 802.11a Advertised: 54Mbps | Actual: 25-30Mbps
802.11n (dual-stream) Advertised: 300Mbps | Actual: 150-160Mbps
[...]

frankled wrote: »

[...] I still don't understand why it would not work. [...]

The only situation I know it would, if you have two devices from the same manufacturer with identical wi-fi card (like both atheros or broadcom, etc.) - but still, only in theory.

frankled wrote: »

[...] and ethernet isn't really an option.

[...]

Why?

It is the only option to get what you want. Yes, of course, you can think about powerline (a.k.a. homeplug, PLC), but still the real speed achieved will be below expectations. Read:

[...] Homeplugs perform really well in a test environment, even when different circuits are introduced and metres of extra cable are inserted. However, what the tests often fail to take into account, is the fact that people actually make use of other electrical devices besides homeplugs (!!) and that these all introduce noise into the home grid that apparently severely affect powerline ethernet performance. [...]

agricamera wrote: »

[...]
The wifi radio can only transmit or receive at one time - not both simultaneously. [...]

Agree. But there are dual radio routers as well, look similar to what most of people have at home, they can work as repeaters if needed.

frankled

joujoujou wrote: »

You expect to get 54Mbit/s in that configuration? Keep dreaming. 54Mbit/s is not you'd be able to achieve ever. Read:





The only situation I know it would, if you have two devices from the same manufacturer with identical wi-fi card (like both atheros or broadcom, etc.) - but still, only in theory.

Why?

It is the only option to get what you want. Yes, of course, you can think about powerline (a.k.a. homeplug, PLC), but still the real speed achieved will be below expectations. Read:





Agree. But there are dual radio routers as well, look similar to what most of people have at home, they can work as repeaters if needed.

No not 54mbps, but it would give me more than 2Mbps d/l speed on the ps3 surely. Ethernet is awkward and would involve drilling. I may go for it though, Homeplugs seem to offer good speeds too, but I wasn't expecting to have to pay €50 when I had some equipment already.

joujoujou

Well, you'll do what you want and nobody will stop you. Now, when you know what are the possibilities, it's time to think and make a decision:

- problematic and slow (and money to spend, as stuff you have refused to cooperate) wireless connection,

- slow and dear PLC,

- reasonably cheap and solid ethernet connection with a few holes to drill through the walls*, with no problems with speeds at all.

*By the way - you live in an apartment or a house? If house - is there an attic above or 2nd floor? Maybe no drill will be necessary.

frankled

joujoujou wrote: »

Well, you'll do what you want and nobody will stop you. Now, when you know what are the possibilities, it's time to think and make a decision:

- problematic and slow (and money to spend, as stuff you have refused to cooperate) wireless connection,

- slow and dear PLC,

- reasonably cheap and solid ethernet connection with a few holes to drill through the walls*, with no problems with speeds at all.

*By the way - you live in an apartment or a house? If house - is there an attic above or 2nd floor? Maybe no drill will be necessary.

Not refusing to cooperate, I was just determined to wait until I knew for sure using the Belkin was completely impossible in any way. Now that I do, thanks to the help here, I can consider other options. (It is quite irritating that the PS3 has such crap wi-fi reception)

I live in a house, I think I will use the attic and get a 20m cable from Peats for a tenner. I was not too keen on this as the cable will be very obvious and there's not really any way to conceal it other than pin it neatly to the wall and paint it.

Again, thanks for the help guys

joujoujou

No problem, just on more thing that may be helpful - remove one of wall sockets (preferrably the one you have cisco connected to, or the one near PS3) and check if electrical cables go inside a plastic pipe - if yes, you'll be able to push an ethernet cable through without drilling. It's quite tricky, but possible - that's exactly how I wired my house.

So: socket---cable to attic---cable from attic---socket.

frankled

joujoujou wrote: »

No problem, just on more thing that may be helpful - remove one of wall sockets (preferrably the one you have cisco connected to, or the one near PS3) and check if electrical cables go inside a plastic pipe - if yes, you'll be able to push an ethernet cable through without drilling. It's quite tricky, but possible - that's exactly how I wired my house.

So: socket---cable to attic---cable from attic---socket.

That's actually a brilliant idea, thanks!