Mac Book Pro doesn't seem too expensive

censuspro

Considering changing from my windows laptop to a MBP. If I was to replace it for another windows laptop I'd buy a lenovo T430 or similar spec for around €1,100. If I was to go for a MBP I'm looking at around €1200 for a similar spec?

Am I missing something, I was under the impression that Mac's were alot more expensive?

machiavellianme

Pointing to an expensive Lenovo with a weak spec for the price doesnt make the macbook any more attractive. Its like comparing and nectarine and a peach if both cost 500 euro, neither are worth it.

Besides, the Lenovo you've mentioned can be got for under 1k according to the Lenovo shop
http://shop.lenovo.com/ieweb/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t430

For that price you should be getting at least an i7 or a better graphics card or an ssd. I'm sure others will point you to pc specialist where you can get a much better spec for 1k approx.

censuspro

machiavellianme wrote: »

Pointing to an expensive Lenovo with a weak spec for the price doesnt make the macbook any more attractive. Its like comparing and nectarine and a peach if both cost 500 euro, neither are worth it.

Besides, the Lenovo you've mentioned can be got for under 1k according to the Lenovo shop
http://shop.lenovo.com/ieweb/ie/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t430

For that price you should be getting at least an i7 or a better graphics card or an ssd. I'm sure others will point you to pc specialist where you can get a much better spec for 1k approx.

The reason I mentioned lenovo is because I've used them previously and in my experience they've performed very well under very heavy usage for long periods. I've used Dell, Toshiba and HP laptops before and none have lasted more than 2 years.

PogMoThoin

The new Ivy bridge MBP's have soldered ram and proprietary SSD's. No upgrading, nasty stunt
http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/13/teardown_of_retina_display_macbook_pro_finds_soldered_ram_propreitary_ssd

marco_polo

censuspro wrote: »

The reason I mentioned lenovo is because I've used them previously and in my experience they've performed very well under very heavy usage for long periods. I've used Dell, Toshiba and HP laptops before and none have lasted more than 2 years.

Whats more important though, performance or durability? Durabilty does carry a high price premium, and if performance is the more important factor there is a strong argument for getting 2 cheaper laptops with a average build that may only last 2-3 years each instead a more durable laptop that last 5 or 6 (be it a macbook or high end windows one). A second cheapish laptop purchased in 2-3 year time would run rings around whatever you purchase now.

If you do go the durability route there is still more value to be had from a high quality windows laptop IMO.

Torqay

censuspro wrote: »

If I was to go for a MBP I'm looking at around €1200 for a similar spec?

The cheapest MBP is the 13 incher (12800x800, Core i5, 4 GB RAM & platter HDD) for 1300 yoyos. As mentioned before, go to PC Specialist, configure the sh*t out of the 14" UltraNote and have enough cash left for nice weekend abroad.



Price: £833/€1,040 (incl. OS installation DVD and 3 yr warranty)

censuspro

marco_polo wrote: »

Whats more important though, performance or durability? Durabilty does carry a high price premium, and if performance is the more important factor there is a strong argument for getting 2 cheaper laptops with a average build that may only last 2-3 years each instead a more durable laptop that last 5 or 6 (be it a macbook or high end windows one). A second cheapish laptop purchased in 2-3 year time would run rings around whatever you purchase now.

If you do go the durability route there is still more value to be had from a high quality windows laptop IMO.

Durability is an important factor me as I have alot of accounts, payroll software etc that is not worth the hassle of transferring every 2 years.

Torqay

censuspro wrote: »

Durability is an important factor me

Nothing improves durabilty (and indeed performance) of a laptop more than a solid state disk (the cheapest MBP with a SSD costs 1,800 yoyos)

censuspro wrote: »

I have alot of accounts, payroll software etc

Did you make sure, all your business software is compatible with Mac OSX? If not, you'll have to buy Windows and set it up via Bootcamp or Parallels, turning your MBP into one very expensive Windows laptop.

censuspro

Torqay wrote: »

Did you make sure, all your business software is compatible with Mac OSX? If not, you'll have to buy Windows and set it up via Bootcamp or Parallels, turning your MBP into one very expensive Windows laptop.

That's the thing, the software isn't compatible. I'm weighing up the pros and cons. Basically I would like to have the mac for entertainment and windows for business but don't wan to buy two separate pieces of hardware.

marco_polo

Unlike a few years there are a wide range of windows options available, personally for that kind of money I'd be pimping up a pcspecialist ultra like torquay suggests.

But there are tonnes of good quality machines from reasonably enough prices stuff like the Portege Z830 or Samsung series 5, or Asus U36 that are very similar specced to the cheaper macbook pro and have a very good build quality.

Above that sort of price range nearly all of the top manufactures have some brilliant machines that would put the vanilla 13" MBP to shame (ultrabooks and more conventional laptops depending on what most suits). €1300 without an SSD in this day and age is a bit of a joke in all fairness.

H3llR4iser

censuspro wrote: »

Durability is an important factor me as I have alot of accounts, payroll software etc that is not worth the hassle of transferring every 2 years.

Keep the stuff on an external drive and make backups of it, and you won't have to "transfer it" to a new system.

Torqay

censuspro wrote: »

Basically I would like to have the mac for entertainment

Care to elaborate? Any media file formats a Windows computer can't play? Any games that don't run on a Windows computer but on a Mac?

censuspro

Torqay wrote: »

Care to elaborate? Any media file formats a Windows computer can't play? Any games that don't run on a Windows computer but on a Mac?

Entertainment in terms of learning a new os, music, videos, photos etc.

One option that hasn't been mentioned is the ms surface, would this have the spec to replace my laptop? It's a new os, tablet/pc, could be an option.

Anyone have any ideas on price, durability, build quality etc?

Torqay

censuspro wrote: »

Entertainment in terms of learning a new os, music, videos, photos etc.

Windows does music, videos, photos just as well. If you want to "learn a new OS", you can always try a variety of Linux distros or even Mac OSX in a virtual machine (although the latter might be in violation of Apple's EULA) without risking the functionality of your main operating system.

censuspro wrote: »

One option that hasn't been mentioned is the ms surface, would this have the spec to replace my laptop? It's a new os, tablet/pc, could be an option.

Anyone have any ideas on price, durability, build quality etc?

Price: around 500 yoyos in the basic version.

Little is known about its multimedia capabilities. Knowing Microsoft, the fun stops at WMA/WMV, anything else will probably require additional codecs which may or may not be available for Windows RT (yay, another new OS for you to learn).

Sometimes next year, another version of Surface will surface, based on Intel processors (thus much more expensive) and running regular Windows 8 (which may not be so new to learn by then).

censuspro

Lenovo have a idea pad with windows 8 but I'm reluctant to buy at this early stage.

Torqay wrote: »

Windows does music, videos, photos just as well. If you want to "learn a new OS", you can always try a variety of Linux distros or even Mac OSX in a virtual machine (although the latter might be in violation of Apple's EULA) without risking the functionality of your main operating system.



Price: around 500 yoyos in the basic version.

Little is known about its multimedia capabilities. Knowing Microsoft, the fun stops at WMA/WMV, anything else will probably require additional codecs which may or may not be available for Windows RT (yay, another new OS for you to learn).

Sometimes next year, another version of Surface will surface, based on Intel processors (thus much more expensive) and running regular Windows 8 (which may not be so new to learn by then).

Torqay

censuspro wrote: »

Lenovo have a idea pad with windows 8 but I'm reluctant to buy at this early stage.

Thought you'd love the excitement of learning a new OS?

censuspro

Torqay wrote: »

Thought you'd love the excitement of learning a new OS?

Windows 8 is a new OS.

censuspro

After looking into this for the past number of weeks, I still don't understand all the hype over the price of Apple laptops.

Take a look at these ultrabooks which are coming in and around the same price as a MBP but have a weaker spec.

http://www.pcworld.ie/Product/SAMSUNG-Series-9-NP900X3D-133andquot-Ultrabook-Silver/312568/104.1

http://www8.hp.com/ie/en/products/laptops/product-detail.html?oid=5285733

GreenWolfe

censuspro wrote: »

After looking into this for the past number of weeks, I still don't understand , the hype over the price of Apple laptops.

Take a look at these ultrabooks which are coming in and around the same price as a MBP but have a weaker spec.

http://www.pcworld.ie/Product/SAMSUNG-Series-9-NP900X3D-133andquot-Ultrabook-Silver/312568/104.1

http://www8.hp.com/ie/en/products/laptops/product-detail.html?oid=5285733

€1,267 inc VAT for the HP and it only has a 1366x768 screen? Ridiculous!

Alanstrainor

censuspro wrote: »

After looking into this for the past number of weeks, I still don't understand all the hype over the price of Apple laptops.

Take a look at these ultrabooks which are coming in and around the same price as a MBP but have a weaker spec.

http://www.pcworld.ie/Product/SAMSUNG-Series-9-NP900X3D-133andquot-Ultrabook-Silver/312568/104.1

http://www8.hp.com/ie/en/products/laptops/product-detail.html?oid=5285733

They're ultrabooks, surely not the same class as the pro?

marco_polo

Alanstrainor wrote: »

They're ultrabooks, surely not the same class as the pro?

The 13" MacBook air would be the more suitable comparison here I would think alright.

censuspro

marco_polo wrote: »

The 13" MacBook air would be the more suitable comparison here I would think alright.

Show me a comparative windows laptop with a 13" screen and same spec that isn't an ultrabook.

GreenWolfe

censuspro wrote: »

Show me a comparative windows laptop with a 13" screen and same spec that isn't an ultrabook.

Thinkpad X230? Play around with the custom options - http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/ieweb/LenovoPortal/en_IE/builder.workflow:Enter?sb=%3A000000F0%3A000002CC%3A&smid=53342ADC5C975FF80F4AFF71D3FFECA7&redir=y#.UNepKW_ckXs

No hi-res screen options though, you're stuck with 1366x768

censuspro

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

Thinkpad X230? Play around with the custom options - http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/ieweb/LenovoPortal/en_IE/builder.workflow:Enter?sb=%3A000000F0%3A000002CC%3A&smid=53342ADC5C975FF80F4AFF71D3FFECA7&redir=y#.UNepKW_ckXs

No hi-res screen options though, you're stuck with 1366x768

Still comes in at €1200 with 8gb Ram and 500gb hd.

Point is that MBP isn't as expensive when you compare like with like.

GreenWolfe

censuspro wrote: »

Still comes in at €1200 with 8gb Ram and 500gb hd.

Point is that MBP isn't as expensive when you compare like with like.

So type of laptop do you want, for what purpose and at what price? Reading through the rest of the thread you don't seem to know what you want.

marco_polo

censuspro wrote: »

Show me a comparative windows laptop with a 13" screen and same spec that isn't an ultrabook.

Comparative to what? 13" windows laptops range anywhere from about €400 to 2000+. What are the most important specifications for your needs, screen size, resolution, processor, graphics, hard drive capacity, SSD, touchscreen, battery life, weight etc etc?

If you are actually serious about getting some good advice then perhaps link to the specs of the exact MBP machine your are considering buying and somebody could suggest the best windows alternative fit to your needs.

On the other hand if your main requirement is that it is a MBP, as appears from reading back on the couple of pages on this thread so far, you should probably just buy one TBH.

censuspro

marco_polo wrote: »

Comparative to what? 13" windows laptops range anywhere from about €400 to 2000+. What are the most important specifications for your needs, screen size, resolution, processor, graphics, hard drive capacity, SSD, touchscreen, battery life, weight etc etc?

If you are actually serious about getting some good advice then perhaps link to the specs of the exact MBP machine your are considering buying and somebody could suggest the best windows alternative fit to your needs.

On the other hand if your main requirement is that it is a MBP, as appears from reading back on the couple of pages on this thread so far, you should probably just buy one TBH.

I've gave a couple of links to similar specs above and all have come in around the same price range. Requirements are 13" Screen, 8gb Ram and 500GB HD and 1.5 processor.
I'll be running alot of accounts, payroll and tax programs in addition to ms office. I also have two 21" monitors so will need hdmi/dvi ports. I'm looking for a durable, portable and fast laptop that can handle heavy usage for over 12 hours per day.

marco_polo

Just to be clear on your requirements, you want to run two non thunderbolt displays at the same time? You are aware that the 13" MacBook only has a single mini displayport ?

censuspro

marco_polo wrote: »

Just to be clear on your requirements, you want to run two non thunderbolt displays at the same time? You are aware that the 13" MacBook only has a single mini displayport ?

I already have two Samsung monitors. Any suggestions on an equivalent windows laptop/ultrabook.

marco_polo

censuspro wrote: »

I already have two Samsung monitors. Any suggestions on an equivalent windows laptop/ultrabook.

My question was if you require the laptop to be capable of using both at the same time, so I can suggest something suitable. And also to point our that the 13 inch MacBook only supports one external display at a time.

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP649

GreenWolfe

censuspro wrote: »

I already have two Samsung monitors. Any suggestions on an equivalent windows laptop/ultrabook.

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/gxm/dh2go/digital_se/

Have you had a look at this for driving two displays and the built-in panel from a laptop?

I'd say get your original suggestion of a Lenovo Thinkpad.

And yes, the Matrox box (Amazon price here) and the laptop price (because I can't think of any laptop that will drive two monitors out of the box) will probably be similar to a MBP.

censuspro

marco_polo wrote: »

My question was if you require the laptop to be capable of using both at the same time, so I can suggest something suitable. And also to point our that the 13 inch MacBook only supports one external display at a time.

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP649

I thought having dual display was fairly standard, I'm currently using a lenovo n500, with one monitor connected via vga and the other via hdmi?

marco_polo

censuspro wrote: »

I thought having dual display was fairly standard, I'm currently using a lenovo n500, with one monitor connected via vga and the other via hdmi?

It is reasonably common on larger laptops, what I am trying to say is that the 13 MacBook does not support dual displays as it only has one mini display port, and I would think that the majority of 13" laptops would only have a single video port as well.

marco_polo

Some high quality windows 13.3/14" alteratives which pretty well exactly match the 13" MBP spec for spec, not all have 8 GB Ram, but an extra 4GB RAM is cheap and easily added.

The one thing they have in common is that they are just as powerful and 2/3 to 3/4 of the price.

Asus U36SG 13.3 - about €815

Asus U32VJ 13.3 - roughly same as above

Samsung 400B4B - about €780

Sony VAIO S13 roughly same as above

HP ProBook 6470b 14" - about €880

ThinkPad S430 - about €855

censuspro

Do you think this Samsung would do the job, looks like it has VGA and HDMi http://www.pcworld.ie/Product/SAMSUNG-Series-5-NP530U3C-133andquot-Ultrabookandtrade-Silver/312379/104.1

This is a nice computer. Comes with no OS as standard, although you could add Win7 Pro in customise system for ~£120. You can also change most of the inner parts.

Would recommend this company, ordered a laptop from the only 2 weeks ago. Ordered Friday, shipped Monday, arrived in Wednesday.


http://www.novatech.co.uk/laptop/range/novatecheliten1535.html

marco_polo

censuspro wrote: »

Do you think this Samsung would do the job, looks like it has VGA and HDMi http://www.pcworld.ie/Product/SAMSUNG-Series-5-NP530U3C-133andquot-Ultrabookandtrade-Silver/312379/104.1

It is a very nice ultrabook, and certainly ticks all of the portability boxes. However the thing about those ultra low voltage processors (they are the ones where the model number ends in UM) used in most ultrabooks, is that they offer much lower performance levels than their full voltage counterparts.

The low voltage i3-3217um CPU in that samsung is far less powerfull than the i5-2450m, probably slighly under half as good I'd say.

On a side note a good few of the laptops I linked earlier appear to have dual video outputs, it seems to be a good bit more common than I thought on the smaller 13"ers.

censuspro

marco_polo wrote: »

It is a very nice ultrabook, and certainly ticks all of the portability boxes. However the thing about those ultra low voltage processors (they are the ones where the model number ends in UM) used in most ultrabooks, is that they offer much lower performance levels than their full voltage counterparts.

The low voltage i3-3217um CPU in that samsung is far less powerfull than the i5-2450m, probably slighly under half as good I'd say.

On a side note a good few of the laptops I linked earlier appear to have dual video outputs, it seems to be a good bit more common than I thought on the smaller 13"ers.

How do you think the Samsung would perform using the programs I mentioned e.g. Accounting, tax, payroll software, ms office, internet etc.

I'm currently using a lenovo n500, upraded to windows 7 and 4GB RAM, using the following processor http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+Dual+T3200+%40+2.00GHz and this handles everything I throw at it?

censuspro

Just notice that the pc world website says an i3 processor but any search on this model is listed as an i5? Is it possible that PC world got this mixed up?

http://www.pcworld.ie/Product/SAMSUNG-Series-5-NP530U3C-133andquot-Ultrabookandtrade-Silver/312379/104.1

marco_polo

censuspro wrote: »

How do you think the Samsung would perform using the programs I mentioned e.g. Accounting, tax, payroll software, ms office, internet etc.

I'm currently using a lenovo n500, upraded to windows 7 and 4GB RAM, using the following processor http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+Dual+T3200+%40+2.00GHz and this handles everything I throw at it?

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-3217U+%40+1.80GHz

Its better than your current processor, so everything would run just fine. But the regular i5 is substantially better and would probably have a little more longevity. There are pros and cons to both but if the additional portability of an ultrabook is attractive to you then it would be a very nice machine.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-2450M+%40+2.50GHz

As for the i3 or i5 on Currys, more than likely it just comes in more than one version.