Are delivery men insured?

endofrainbow

just a quick question - I recently had a bed delivered and it needed to go upstairs. Delivery guy brought it up but broke something on the stairs. He also ripped the underneath of the base. I refused to accept it as it was damaged.

He then got a bit thick with me when I mentioned the broken item saying he wasn't insured to bring anything upstairs and *it wasn't his job*. Now my question is, with that way of thinking, if he fell down the stairs and broke his leg, who has liability? Should he not be covered by his employer's liability or contractor's liability?

Nowhere on their website under T&C's does it state that they cannot bring items upstairs and when I specifically asked when ordering I was told *they do it all the time *.

However, on the delivery docket (which you only obviously get when the goods are delivered) it states *goods brought upstairs strictly by request and at customer's risk*.

Can I be liable for damage he caused to the base of the bed by bringing it upstairs?

uck51js9zml2yt

endofrainbow wrote: »

just a quick question - I recently had a bed delivered and it needed to go upstairs. Delivery guy brought it up but broke something on the stairs. He also ripped the underneath of the base. I refused to accept it as it was damaged.

He then got a bit thick with me when I mentioned the broken item saying he wasn't insured to bring anything upstairs and *it wasn't his job*. Now my question is, with that way of thinking, if he fell down the stairs and broke his leg, who has liability? Should he not be covered by his employer's liability or contractor's liability?

Nowhere on their website under T&C's does it state that they cannot bring items upstairs and when I specifically asked when ordering I was told *they do it all the time *.

However, on the delivery docket (which you only obviously get when the goods are delivered) it states *goods brought upstairs strictly by request and at customer's risk*.

Can I be liable for damage he caused to the base of the bed by bringing it upstairs?

the highlighted part is your answer.

delivery is normally 3 foot inside the door.

JimsAlterEgo

but there var a verbal contract between the customer and the business to deliver upstairs

gbee

The delivery people are not insured. They would need personal liability insurance and 'effectively' a different company to bring the goods upstairs, hence they'd need to charge you more than the goods and delivery combined.

He can claim off you, in fact a bugler ransacking your home can claim off you ~ go figure.

Bringing furniture upstairs is something most will do as an added service but it's not worth the cost to provide that service and would be prohibitive to the householder who then would be legally obliged to hire the service.

cormie

A huge amount of delivery drivers don't have the correct level of insurance. I run a removal and transport business and even a lot of the competing websites, which look somewhat legitimate are operating without valid insurance, not to mention the vast, vast majority of "man with a van" classifieds listed on gumtree/adverts and the likes. Also some very popular delivery bidding websites require absolutely no proof of insurance or legitimacy and you can still give the impression you're insured and all above board.

Before my own business was established I was looking at getting a job with a courier company and every courier I spoke to said, for starting off, just tell the insurance company you're transporting your own goods as courier insurance is much more expensive.

The job description of the driver who delivered your bed more than likely doesn't incorporate bringing it to a specific location in the house and they may just be covered door to door. He probably was insured for this, but not for anything further. In fairness to the guy, he may just have brought it upstairs out of good will and to keep his employer happy that he's going the extra mile for their customers. If he was on his own and nobody was helping him up the stairs with it and the item wasn't measured correctly before ordering to ensure it would fit up the stairs, I can sympathise with him.

I'd take it up with the supplier themselves. If you were told "they do it all the time" and nothing else, then it certainly leads you to believe it wouldn't be a problem. Whoever told you this put both the driver and yourself in a trivial situation.

At least he tried anyway, I've had to do urgent jobs for some customers who had valuable items delivered and left outside on a pallet because the driver wouldn't help them take it inside or upstairs.

Odelay

gbee wrote: »

The delivery people are not insured. They would need personal liability insurance and 'effectively' a different company to bring the goods upstairs, hence they'd need to charge you more than the goods and delivery combined.

He can claim off you, in fact a bugler ransacking your home can claim off you ~ go figure.

Bringing furniture upstairs is something most will do as an added service but it's not worth the cost to provide that service and would be prohibitive to the householder who then would be legally obliged to hire the service.

Where did all of that come out of? One company to bring the bed into the household and a second to bring it upstairs? What if the household was in an apartment building? who brings it up the stairs then? what if there were steps out side your house? is there a limit on how many steps can be climbed or will it again have to be the second company?

oldyouth

The existence (or lack) of insurance does not have any bearing on liability. If a person has been negligent causing loss, then you can sue them. However, the absence of insurance may make it a futile exercise if the wrongdoer has no funds.

The 'at own risk' aspect is more difficult to comment on. If this condition of the contract was brought to your attention prior to the incident, you could be humped. If you specifically asked for the item to be brought upstairs as part of your purchase, you would have a case.

As for suing you, as a homeowner, injury on your premises does not automatically make you liable. They have to prove that you or your property were the cause of the incident

SiegfriedsMum

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

but there var a verbal contract between the customer and the business to deliver upstairs

If there was a verbal contract to deliver the goods upstairs, then the written contract which states "goods brought upstairs strictly by request and at customer's risk" takes precedence.

In law, you can't make a verbal agreement after which you sign a written contract and then claim your understanding of the previous verbal agreement takes precedence.

keithclancy

Odelay wrote: »

Where did all of that come out of? One company to bring the bed into the household and a second to bring it upstairs? What if the household was in an apartment building? who brings it up the stairs then? what if there were steps out side your house? is there a limit on how many steps can be climbed or will it again have to be the second company?

That normal over here in NL, most if not all shops say "Delivery to ground floor only"

I mean ffs ... what he gets there and theres 20 flights of stairs ?

Just ask in advance when getting large items like furniture etc delivered.

xpletiv

Sounds like his own fault, he damaged your property. Since the first time you found out about the writing part is probably AFTER you asked for it to be brought upstairs, after agreeing a verbal one over the phone, you are probably in the right. They need to provide the goods in perfect order and thus you were right to refuse it.

Nody

keithclancy wrote: »

That normal over here in NL, most if not all shops say "Delivery to ground floor only"

I mean ffs ... what he gets there and theres 20 flights of stairs ?

Just ask in advance when getting large items like furniture etc delivered.

I've been asked how many stairs were to be climbed and qouted accordingly with moving companies which I think is fair enough

cormie

Definitely, stairs make a huge difference, as do lifts and distance to the door and the van. When I started, I pretty much gave a fixed price for everything. Now it's very rare I'd give a fixed price and 99% of my jobs are priced on time as the amount of untold delays you can face on a job are huge.

So what happened in the end? Who took responsibility for the damage?

Procrastastudy

gbee wrote: »

He can claim off you, in fact a bugler ransacking your home can claim off you ~ go figure.

OT but what are you talking about - thats non-sense in normal circumstances.

The delivery driver might be insured he might not. He is likely covered by his employers insurance. In practice everyone would be sued and would sort it out amongst themselves. There's a name for this type of letter but I forget it.

As for the issue you are having OP. Its a tough one it might be an deemed to be an exclusion clause. The reliant party (e.g. the company delivering) wouldn't get much leeway if they sought to rely on it. That said I don't know if it even gets that far. I'd suggest sticking in a SmCC claim and hoping that it spurs them on to fix it. This wasn't Cost Plus Sofas was it? Sounds like the typical fly-by-night BS they typically try and pull.

endofrainbow

thanks for the replies. I stood my ground and said that I would not accept the damaged base and to take it away.I then rang the shop, told then what happened and they eventually agreed to send a replacement. I asked if at all possible that it be a different driver.

When the base arrived this morning, the drivers were amazed that the first guy couldn't get it up the stairs. I think I was just unfortunate to get a driver with an attitude and I made a complaint to the store about him.

As for the broken item? Super glue should do the job...

Procrastastudy

Cheers for the update OP. An anecdote for you.

I worked for a large enough retailer that had all its business though one courier in Ireland. We wouldn't have caused them much pain if we stopped using them but the contract was lucrative enough. The manager down in one of the Cork stores got an asshat of a driver one day - from Dublin - all the stuff arrived in via Dublin.

99.9% of the time the drivers were grand. The manager down in Cork made this lad load 33 boxes back on his van take them back up to Dublin and explain that he had better get another driver to make the delivery that afternoon. Suffice it to say they never sent Mr Rude back down to Cork!

scas100

three foot inside the door ground floor only, is how couriers are meant to deliver goods. You must understand that the driver may have upwards of 150 deliveries a day and doesnt literally have the time to spend more than a few seconds at the door waiting for a signature.ive been a courier for nearly 22 years and unless its a door to door service like a dublin courier company ie securispeed, pony express etc we have no idea where the delivery even came from let alone what lies the sender told the customer that the courier would do upon delivery. Ive been given out to from everything from not taking the packaging back to not taking an upright piano to the 5th floor of a block of apartments without a lift on my own. Been told im being reported(to who?) because i would assemble a satelitte tv system including mounting the dish and because i wasnt going to fit a gearbox to a tractor. I dont work for the sender
Most of us are obliging and obviously if for example an old lady asks could you put it in the upstairs bedroom. Most of us will do it while worrying about the lost minutes and how much longer our day will be- add 3 or 4 minutes even 20 times a day and it adds up to getting home an hour or so later than we could.
people give out about couriers because they dont really have a grasp of the pressure we are under, which to them makes us seem like we dont give the correct amount of time to make the recipient enjoy the delivery of their purchase.
On the other hand delivery men, contracted/working for the sender are a different story-they generally go on what the sender company tells them to, so should do what the sender has agreed.
Insurance wise, if you made/persuaded the deliver man to drag the delivery upstairs , good luck with a claim. As it doesnt really matter if the delivery man/courier has full git insurance and sp insurance as the delivery is out of the van and ouside the 3 foot inside the door.
I do feel for you as ive had all sorts of ridiculous delivery situations to myself, and its really annoying-and all im expecting is the delivery to come to my door in some way.

Procrastastudy

scas100 wrote: »

three foot inside the door ground floor only, is how couriers are meant to deliver goods. You must understand that the driver may have upwards of 150 deliveries a day and doesnt literally have the time to spend more than a few seconds at the door waiting for a signature.ive been a courier for nearly 22 years and unless its a door to door service like a dublin courier company ie securispeed, pony express etc we have no idea where the delivery even came from let alone what lies the sender told the customer that the courier would do upon delivery. Ive been given out to from everything from not taking the packaging back to not taking an upright piano to the 5th floor of a block of apartments without a lift on my own. Been told im being reported(to who?) because i would assemble a satelitte tv system including mounting the dish and because i wasnt going to fit a gearbox to a tractor. I dont work for the sender
Most of us are obliging and obviously if for example an old lady asks could you put it in the upstairs bedroom. Most of us will do it while worrying about the lost minutes and how much longer our day will be- add 3 or 4 minutes even 20 times a day and it adds up to getting home an hour or so later than we could.
people give out about couriers because they dont really have a grasp of the pressure we are under, which to them makes us seem like we dont give the correct amount of time to make the recipient enjoy the delivery of their purchase.
On the other hand delivery men, contracted/working for the sender are a different story-they generally go on what the sender company tells them to, so should do what the sender has agreed.
Insurance wise, if you made/persuaded the deliver man to drag the delivery upstairs , good luck with a claim. As it doesnt really matter if the delivery man/courier has full git insurance and sp insurance as the delivery is out of the van and ouside the 3 foot inside the door.
I do feel for you as ive had all sorts of ridiculous delivery situations to myself, and its really annoying-and all im expecting is the delivery to come to my door in some way.

Contract is a contract. If I ask for A delivered to B with C and D condition attached then that's what I expect. The retailer will obviously have a contract with the delivery driver. If the delivery isnt what I contracted for or gets damaged its the retailer I go after. Doesn't mean I have to take the delivery and doesn't mean the retailer wont try and claim off the driver. Of course some drivers will say feck it and carry it up etc - others wont. Some customers will accpet it some wont. Its the wonderful world of give and take and trying it on. I'd guess that the majority of the time the retailer is just hoping the driver will do it.

scas100

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Contract is a contract. If I ask for A delivered to B with C and D condition attached then that's what I expect. The retailer will obviously have a contract with the delivery driver. If the delivery isnt what I contracted for or gets damaged its the retailer I go after. Doesn't mean I have to take the delivery and doesn't mean the retailer wont try and claim off the driver. Of course some drivers will say feck it and carry it up etc - others wont. Some customers will accpet it some wont. Its the wonderful world of give and take and trying it on. I'd guess that the majority of the time the retailer is just hoping the driver will do it.

Agreed a contract is a contract, but the retailers contract with the delivery company, courier or delivery driver is obviously completely different to it. What the consignee is expecting is with the retailer and not the courier, so yes take it up with the retailer- its their fault for implying the courier will do a or b in the delivery

scas100

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Contract is a contract. If I ask for A delivered to B with C and D condition attached then that's what I expect. The retailer will obviously have a contract with the delivery driver. If the delivery isnt what I contracted for or gets damaged its the retailer I go after. Doesn't mean I have to take the delivery and doesn't mean the retailer wont try and claim off the driver. Of course some drivers will say feck it and carry it up etc - others wont. Some customers will accpet it some wont. Its the wonderful world of give and take and trying it on. I'd guess that the majority of the time the retailer is just hoping the driver will do it.

Agreed a contract is a contract, but the retailers contract with the delivery company, courier or delivery driver is obviously completely different to it. What the consignee is expecting is with the retailer and not the courier, so yes take it up with the retailer- its their fault for implying the courier will do a or b in the delivery

Del2005

scas100 wrote: »

three foot inside the door ground floor only, is how couriers are meant to deliver goods. You must understand that the driver may have upwards of 150 deliveries a day and doesnt literally have the time to spend more than a few seconds at the door waiting for a signature.ive been a courier for nearly 22 years and unless its a door to door service like a dublin courier company ie securispeed, pony express etc we have no idea where the delivery even came from let alone what lies the sender told the customer that the courier would do upon delivery. Ive been given out to from everything from not taking the packaging back to not taking an upright piano to the 5th floor of a block of apartments without a lift on my own. Been told im being reported(to who?) because i would assemble a satelitte tv system including mounting the dish and because i wasnt going to fit a gearbox to a tractor. I dont work for the sender
Most of us are obliging and obviously if for example an old lady asks could you put it in the upstairs bedroom. Most of us will do it while worrying about the lost minutes and how much longer our day will be- add 3 or 4 minutes even 20 times a day and it adds up to getting home an hour or so later than we could.
people give out about couriers because they dont really have a grasp of the pressure we are under, which to them makes us seem like we dont give the correct amount of time to make the recipient enjoy the delivery of their purchase.
On the other hand delivery men, contracted/working for the sender are a different story-they generally go on what the sender company tells them to, so should do what the sender has agreed.
Insurance wise, if you made/persuaded the deliver man to drag the delivery upstairs , good luck with a claim. As it doesnt really matter if the delivery man/courier has full git insurance and sp insurance as the delivery is out of the van and ouside the 3 foot inside the door.
I do feel for you as ive had all sorts of ridiculous delivery situations to myself, and its really annoying-and all im expecting is the delivery to come to my door in some way.

Reminds of a time years ago when my Sister order a cast iron fireplace. I was off shift so waited in her house for the delivery man. When he arrived there was no way in hell a person could lift it on their own, the two of us struggled to get it into the house. I asked him what would he have done if it was a little old lady? He said he'd have tried to move it but would have had to have left it on the road.

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Contract is a contract. If I ask for A delivered to B with C and D condition attached then that's what I expect. The retailer will obviously have a contract with the delivery driver. If the delivery isnt what I contracted for or gets damaged its the retailer I go after. Doesn't mean I have to take the delivery and doesn't mean the retailer wont try and claim off the driver. Of course some drivers will say feck it and carry it up etc - others wont. Some customers will accpet it some wont. Its the wonderful world of give and take and trying it on. I'd guess that the majority of the time the retailer is just hoping the driver will do it.

You're contract is with the retailer. They then sub it out to a delivery guy, but don't pay him for what they told you the delivery person will do. The issue is that the retailer can say whatever they like since they know that they won't be getting dogs abuse off the customer when the item is delivered.