Advise on JSA Back pay

Steve2007

Ok, this might sound like a tricky one.
I am self employed for 15 years. In '09 my business deteriorated, so in Sept '09 I applied for JSA. Social welfare asked for accounts for 1st Jan '09 to 31st Aug '09. I did explain to the inspector that due to seasonal work, this would not show an accurate weekly means over the entire year. The 8 month preliminary account showed that my weekly means upto Aug '09 were €100 pw, & of course this amount was stopped from my payment.
My '09 accounts were returned to Revenue in Oct '10, & in Mar '11 I received confirmation from Revenue that I had only really earned €65 pw throughout '09.
In Oct '11 I made a return for 2010, & in Mar 2012 I received confirmation from Revenue that I had earned €20 pw throughout 2010.
I made a return early this year for 2011, and have confirmation from Revenue that I earned €10 pw throughout 2011.
Social welfare have reviewed this & have agreed to now stop just the €10pw, and to back pay from when I requested the review in July 2012.
My question is: should I be entitled to Back pay for the over estimation of my means & over deduction in my payment since Sept '09?
Advise will be greatly appreciated.

ABajaninCork

Yes. You should get all the arrears.

Steve2007

Thank you ABajanjnCork. The Social-welfare Inspector told me that I'm only entitled to back pay from when I requested the review. Which was July 2012. This however isn't what I was told by the original Inspector in 2009!

ABajaninCork

I would query that. Have another word with the Deciding Officer. Was the original decision in writing?

Steve2007

Yes I have the original decision '09 from Social Welfare in writing. I don't however have any confirmation that the inspector told me in '09 that the 8 month preliminary account was just being used as a base,because it was the only documentation available at the time, and that the actual annual income on my Return to Revenue (whenever that would happen) would be used to calculate my actual means, & My payment would then be adjusted accordingly.

eastbono

Steve2007 wrote: »

Ok, this might sound like a tricky one.
I am self employed for 15 years. In '09 my business deteriorated, so in Sept '09 I applied for JSA. Social welfare asked for accounts for 1st Jan '09 to 31st Aug '09. I did explain to the inspector that due to seasonal work, this would not show an accurate weekly means over the entire year. The 8 month preliminary account showed that my weekly means upto Aug '09 were €100 pw, & of course this amount was stopped from my payment.
My '09 accounts were returned to Revenue in Oct '10, & in Mar '11 I received confirmation from Revenue that I had only really earned €65 pw throughout '09.
In Oct '11 I made a return for 2010, & in Mar 2012 I received confirmation from Revenue that I had earned €20 pw throughout 2010.
I made a return early this year for 2011, and have confirmation from Revenue that I earned €10 pw throughout 2011.
Social welfare have reviewed this & have agreed to now stop just the €10pw, and to back pay from when I requested the review in July 2012.
My question is: should I be entitled to Back pay for the over estimation of my means & over deduction in my payment since Sept '09?
Advise will be greatly appreciated.

In a nutshell no as you should have appealed the original decision. New means can only be applied from the date you requested a review.

Steve2007

Yes, but at the time there was no documentation to base the appeal on. This paperwork would only be available after the Return & when written evidence was available from Revenue.

eastbono

Steve2007 wrote: »

Yes, but at the time there was no documentation to base the appeal on. This paperwork would only be available after the Return & when written evidence was available from Revenue.

You would have got a copy of your means from sw. If you were not satisfied with their decision it is up to you to appeal this decision and this provision to appeal would have been on each written means decision you would have received.

Steve2007

Yes Eastbono, but the assessment/means were based on accounts which were at least a year and a half old at the time they were available. Therefore '10 & '11 means were based on Estimated '09 accounts. The first 6 months of '12 means were based on '10 accounts. My means at present are based on '11 accounts, and normally I wouldnt have had documentation to show otherwise until spring of 2013.

eastbono

Steve2007 wrote: »

Yes Eastbono, but the assessment/means were based on accounts which were at least a year and a half old at the time they were available. Therefore '10 & '11 means were based on Estimated '09 accounts. The first 6 months of '12 means were based on '10 accounts. My means at present are based on '11 accounts, and normally I wouldnt have had documentation to show otherwise until spring of 2013.

It was up to you to appeal each and every decision if you were not happy with them. For means decision the onus is on the applicant to provide the most up to date business accounts they have and the sw inspector can only give their opinion on accounts provided by the applicant so again the onus is on the applicant to provide the most up to date accounts.

Steve2007

Yes I understand that the sw officer can only calculate the means from the accounts available to them at the time.
However I would at that time only have had the previous years accounts available to me and so I would not at that time have been in a position to appeal the sw decision. I would have thought that when the actual accounts for that year were finalized (the following Oct, when they were due to Revenue) and found to show less means than originally expected, would the shortfall not then be payable?
If my accounts later showed my means to be greater than anticipated, surely sw would seek to have the over payment returned to them.
If my 2012 accounts show that I have made no profit/means, I wont know until my accountant makes the return for 2012 which will be no sooner than mid 2013. In the meantime I will have means deducted based on 2011 accounts, & that is understandable. Again however when the 2012 account is finalized in mid 2013 would the shortfall not be due to me?

eastbono

Steve2007 wrote: »

Yes I understand that the sw officer can only calculate the means from the accounts available to them at the time.
However I would at that time only have had the previous years accounts available to me and so I would not at that time have been in a position to appeal the sw decision. I would have thought that when the actual accounts for that year were finalized (the following Oct, when they were due to Revenue) and found to show less means than originally expected, would the shortfall not then be payable?
If my accounts later showed my means to be greater than anticipated, surely sw would seek to have the over payment returned to them.
If my 2012 accounts show that I have made no profit/means, I wont know until my accountant makes the return for 2012 which will be no sooner than mid 2013. In the meantime I will have means deducted based on 2011 accounts, & that is understandable. Again however when the 2012 account is finalized in mid 2013 would the shortfall not be due to me?

When you ask for your means to be reviewed then the new means are applied from the date you requested the review this applies both to an increase in means and a decrease in means.