Non-Demoninational / Multi-Demoninational schools

jasonb · 25-10-2012 11:04am #1

Hi there,

I'm very aware (as the sticky confirms) that the whole school/religion area can be quite sensitive. I'm not trying to kick up a fuss here, I just have some genuine questions.

I'm just trying to get a sense of what the above terms actually mean. If a school is listed a Multi-Demoninational, does that mean that they teach about several religions? What religions might these be?

Is there 'teaching' of religion (i.e. 'there are lots of religions, some people believe this, other people believe that'), or 'religious instruction' (i.e. maybe teaching about lots of religions, but also picking one religion and bringing the child up in that religion) in these 'multi-demoninational' schools? And what's the difference between Non-demoninational and Multi-demoninational?

Finally, could a Baptism Cert be needed for a child to go to a Non- or Multi- school, or does that depend on the school itself?

Thanks...

J.

byhookorbycrook · 25-10-2012 2:19pm

There are no non -denominational primary schools in Ireland. Some Gaelscoileanna and ET schools are multi-denom, they accept children of all faiths and of none. (As do many of the faith school,to be fair)
ET schools generally have religious instruction outside of school hours, but do teach about various religions as part of their "Learn Together" programme.Parents of Catholic children often pay teachers to teach the children outside of school hours in preparation for the sacraments.

jasonb · 25-10-2012 2:59pm

Thanks for your reply.

So basically it comes down to each school, and how they do it? In other words, a multi-demoninational ET (Eduacate Together I'm guessing?) school teaches about the different faiths, but generally does what I'd consider 'religious instruction' outside of normal school hours. But a multi-demoninational Gaelscoileanna might cater for different faiths, but do religious instruction during school hours?

I've also read of a third phrase - 'inter-demoninational'. Is that similar to non- or multi-?

Thanks...

J.

byhookorbycrook · 25-10-2012 10:26pm

Not sure how multi differs from inter to be honest and don't want to steer you incorrectly.

PauloMN · 26-10-2012 9:23am

Inter denominational means, as far as I know, a school that caters for the two main Christian religions here in Ireland, RC and CoI.

expectationlost · 27-10-2012 7:27pm

inter means more then one patron of whatever type, multi means no specific faith

ShamoBuc · 27-10-2012 8:05pm

expectationlost wrote: »

inter means more then one patron of whatever type, multi means no specific faith

I thought schools could only have 1 patron?

Miss Lockhart · 27-10-2012 8:56pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I thought schools could only have 1 patron?

What about the new joint venture between VEC and ET at second level?

ShamoBuc · 27-10-2012 9:22pm

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

What about the new joint venture between VEC and ET at second level?

Well, that's second level - I have no idea what they do.

Miss Lockhart · 27-10-2012 9:28pm

Well, I'm sure if there can be more than one patron at second level, there can be more than one patron at primary level too.

ShamoBuc · 27-10-2012 9:58pm

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Well, I'm sure if there can be more than one patron at second level, there can be more than one patron at primary level too.

At the moment, I'm not sure you're right. That is a new venture at secondary level - rather than the norm.

Are there primary schools with more than 1 patron - maybe there is - but I don't know of any.

expectationlost · 28-10-2012 3:03pm

I had just read an explaination for inter-domination as more then one patron (with one being a religion).

almost all vec's community schools are co-patron with the local bishop at second level

here's a list of dublin schools, most are listed catholic, only new 4 irish schools and the very new type of national community schools are listed inter-denominational, even though the VEC is the only patron, although the head of the new CNS' said faith is integral to a childs education, so de facto catholic church, ( I really tried to make simple explaination but there is no simply to way )

http://education.ie/en/Find-a-School/School-List/?level=Primary&geo=Dublin&ethos=-1&lang=-1&gender=-1

dambarude · 28-10-2012 3:51pm

expectationlost wrote: »

I had just read an explaination for inter-domination as more then one patron (with one being a religion).

almost all vec's community schools are co-patron with the local bishop at second level

here's a list of dublin schools, most are listed catholic, only new 4 irish schools and the very new type of national community schools are listed inter-denominational, even though the VEC is the only patron, although the head of the new CNS' said faith is integral to a childs education, so de facto catholic church, ( I really tried to make simple explaination but there is no simply to way )

http://education.ie/en/Find-a-School/School-List/?level=Primary&geo=Dublin&ethos=-1&lang=-1&gender=-1

Community National Schools are not de facto Catholic schools. Faith formation is provided for all children, not just Catholic children. The schools are multi-denominational, not inter-denominational.

expectationlost · 28-10-2012 4:43pm

dambarude wrote: »

Community National Schools are not de facto Catholic schools. Faith formation is provided for all children, not just Catholic children. The schools are multi-denominational, not inter-denominational.

the difference now is during school faith formation and out of schools hours faith formation, CNS being the former and educate together the later.

they list this CNS as inter-denomniional http://education.ie/en/find-a-school/School-Detail/?roll=20398U

dambarude · 28-10-2012 4:49pm

expectationlost wrote: »

well tell that to the dept of ed who lists them as such amd to the people that run them.

The DES has listed them incorrectly. Who exactly said that they are de facto Catholic schools?

expectationlost · 28-10-2012 6:09pm

dambarude wrote: »

The DES has listed them incorrectly. Who exactly said that they are de facto Catholic schools?

the backrooms deals that had the marino institue write their (religious) education curriculum http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0330/dept-ignored-warning-over-religion-teaching.html

dambarude · 28-10-2012 6:14pm

expectationlost wrote: »

the backrooms deals that had the marino institue write their (religious) education curriculum http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0330/dept-ignored-warning-over-religion-teaching.html

Fair enough. But whatever people or viewpoints influenced the writing of the RE programme, the schools are not meant to be explicitly or implicitly Catholic as far as I'm aware.

jasonb · 28-10-2012 8:10pm

Thanks for all the replies on this.

There's a school in particular I'm interested in. According to different websites, it's listed as Catholic, Multi-Denominational and Inter-Dominational.

I guess I'll just get in touch with them and ask!

J.

Miss Lockhart · 29-10-2012 2:23pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

At the moment, I'm not sure you're right. That is a new venture at secondary level - rather than the norm.

Are there primary schools with more than 1 patron - maybe there is - but I don't know of any.

Interdenominational is not a new venture at post primary - just the ET/VEC joint venture. It is very common for VEC secondaries to be run by the VEC under a deed of trust from the diocese. These schools are listed as interdenominational. They have equal numbers of VEC and Diocese representatives on board of management and although they enrol all faiths, they practice Catholic faith formation.

I don't know of any examples of interdenominational at primary level but my point was merely that I don't know of any legislative barrier to a school having more than one patron.

Non-Demoninational / Multi-Demoninational schools

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