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Non-Demoninational / Multi-Demoninational schools

  • 25-10-2012 11:04am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭


    Hi there,

    I'm very aware (as the sticky confirms) that the whole school/religion area can be quite sensitive. I'm not trying to kick up a fuss here, I just have some genuine questions.

    I'm just trying to get a sense of what the above terms actually mean. If a school is listed a Multi-Demoninational, does that mean that they teach about several religions? What religions might these be?

    Is there 'teaching' of religion (i.e. 'there are lots of religions, some people believe this, other people believe that'), or 'religious instruction' (i.e. maybe teaching about lots of religions, but also picking one religion and bringing the child up in that religion) in these 'multi-demoninational' schools? And what's the difference between Non-demoninational and Multi-demoninational?

    Finally, could a Baptism Cert be needed for a child to go to a Non- or Multi- school, or does that depend on the school itself?

    Thanks...

    J.


Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    There are no non -denominational primary schools in Ireland. Some Gaelscoileanna and ET schools are multi-denom, they accept children of all faiths and of none. (As do many of the faith school,to be fair)
    ET schools generally have religious instruction outside of school hours, but do teach about various religions as part of their "Learn Together" programme.Parents of Catholic children often pay teachers to teach the children outside of school hours in preparation for the sacraments.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Thanks for your reply.

    So basically it comes down to each school, and how they do it? In other words, a multi-demoninational ET (Eduacate Together I'm guessing?) school teaches about the different faiths, but generally does what I'd consider 'religious instruction' outside of normal school hours. But a multi-demoninational Gaelscoileanna might cater for different faiths, but do religious instruction during school hours?

    I've also read of a third phrase - 'inter-demoninational'. Is that similar to non- or multi-?

    Thanks...

    J.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Not sure how multi differs from inter to be honest and don't want to steer you incorrectly.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,878 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Inter denominational means, as far as I know, a school that caters for the two main Christian religions here in Ireland, RC and CoI.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    inter means more then one patron of whatever type, multi means no specific faith


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,993 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    inter means more then one patron of whatever type, multi means no specific faith

    I thought schools could only have 1 patron?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    I thought schools could only have 1 patron?

    What about the new joint venture between VEC and ET at second level?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,993 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    What about the new joint venture between VEC and ET at second level?

    Well, that's second level - I have no idea what they do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    Well, I'm sure if there can be more than one patron at second level, there can be more than one patron at primary level too.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,993 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Well, I'm sure if there can be more than one patron at second level, there can be more than one patron at primary level too.

    At the moment, I'm not sure you're right. That is a new venture at secondary level - rather than the norm.

    Are there primary schools with more than 1 patron - maybe there is - but I don't know of any.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    I had just read an explaination for inter-domination as more then one patron (with one being a religion).

    almost all vec's community schools are co-patron with the local bishop at second level

    here's a list of dublin schools, most are listed catholic, only new 4 irish schools and the very new type of national community schools are listed inter-denominational, even though the VEC is the only patron, although the head of the new CNS' said faith is integral to a childs education, so de facto catholic church, ( I really tried to make simple explaination but there is no simply to way )

    http://education.ie/en/Find-a-School/School-List/?level=Primary&geo=Dublin&ethos=-1&lang=-1&gender=-1


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    I had just read an explaination for inter-domination as more then one patron (with one being a religion).

    almost all vec's community schools are co-patron with the local bishop at second level

    here's a list of dublin schools, most are listed catholic, only new 4 irish schools and the very new type of national community schools are listed inter-denominational, even though the VEC is the only patron, although the head of the new CNS' said faith is integral to a childs education, so de facto catholic church, ( I really tried to make simple explaination but there is no simply to way )

    http://education.ie/en/Find-a-School/School-List/?level=Primary&geo=Dublin&ethos=-1&lang=-1&gender=-1

    Community National Schools are not de facto Catholic schools. Faith formation is provided for all children, not just Catholic children. The schools are multi-denominational, not inter-denominational.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    dambarude wrote: »
    Community National Schools are not de facto Catholic schools. Faith formation is provided for all children, not just Catholic children. The schools are multi-denominational, not inter-denominational.

    the difference now is during school faith formation and out of schools hours faith formation, CNS being the former and educate together the later.

    they list this CNS as inter-denomniional http://education.ie/en/find-a-school/School-Detail/?roll=20398U


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    well tell that to the dept of ed who lists them as such amd to the people that run them.

    The DES has listed them incorrectly. Who exactly said that they are de facto Catholic schools?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    dambarude wrote: »
    The DES has listed them incorrectly. Who exactly said that they are de facto Catholic schools?

    the backrooms deals that had the marino institue write their (religious) education curriculum http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0330/dept-ignored-warning-over-religion-teaching.html


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭dambarude


    the backrooms deals that had the marino institue write their (religious) education curriculum http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0330/dept-ignored-warning-over-religion-teaching.html

    Fair enough. But whatever people or viewpoints influenced the writing of the RE programme, the schools are not meant to be explicitly or implicitly Catholic as far as I'm aware.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Thanks for all the replies on this.

    There's a school in particular I'm interested in. According to different websites, it's listed as Catholic, Multi-Denominational and Inter-Dominational.

    I guess I'll just get in touch with them and ask!

    J.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    At the moment, I'm not sure you're right. That is a new venture at secondary level - rather than the norm.

    Are there primary schools with more than 1 patron - maybe there is - but I don't know of any.

    Interdenominational is not a new venture at post primary - just the ET/VEC joint venture. It is very common for VEC secondaries to be run by the VEC under a deed of trust from the diocese. These schools are listed as interdenominational. They have equal numbers of VEC and Diocese representatives on board of management and although they enrol all faiths, they practice Catholic faith formation.

    I don't know of any examples of interdenominational at primary level but my point was merely that I don't know of any legislative barrier to a school having more than one patron.


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