Whats the point in Maths???

acurno

I'm a secondary school maths teacher, and every day, without fail, I get asked the question. Most of the time it's asked out of frustration in not understanding a topic, which is fair enough. Most notably, algebra.

I go out of my way to explaining its use in their everyday life but their eyes glaze over as "off he goes on another rant".

Anyway, seeing as they won't listen to me, are there any videos or instructional material out there that anyone is familiar with that can answer their questions in a "child" friendly manner. I'm familiar with TED, 50symbols etc, but inspirational videos which I find mesmerising don't really cut the mustard with 15 year old fellas who have little chance of focusing for more than 2 minutes.

Told them we'd spend the 40 minutes tomorrow, last class of the term, discussing it.

bnt

Do you know the game Angry Birds? I bet some of your students do. Under the skin, it's all Maths e.g. the trajectory of the birds is parabolic. There are a few resources on the Times Educational Supplement. Start here, then see Additional Resources on the right. No videos, but some are interactive e.g. one about linear equations.

BrensBenz

I'm not a teacher so maybe this will be of no value whatever but.........
Maths, geometry, algebra, etc. are exercises for the brain. Yes, Maths may "seem" pointless but is it as pointless as, say, push-ups, sit-ups or other physical activities that have no apparent application in real life? Boxers are not allowed skipping ropes in the ring!
Your brain is a muscle and needs exercise, particularly while it is still developing, to maintain long-term effectiveness. Figuring out a solution to a mathematical question is where the real benefit lies. "Yes, I reasoned my way to the solution" becomes "Yes, I can use my reasoning to resolve this problem. I've done it before so I can do it now"
Having said that, I believe that some people are predisposed against Maths - they can't or won't engage, maybe because it's not deemed cool, hip or trendy - but are more open to new languages, history, art, etc. Perhaps so long as your students enjoy and work at "some" subject, they will be OK and won't spend hours on boards.ie every day!

ifeelill

BrensBenz wrote: »

I'm not a teacher so maybe this will be of no value whatever but.........
Maths, geometry, algebra, etc. are exercises for the brain. Yes, Maths may "seem" pointless but is it as pointless as.............

I'm not a maths student but i'm board already.

So what if they dont understand applications of maths. As you said in your post their questions are a measure of their frustration in not being able to solve the question in front of them and isn't that the most important thing that they can solve the questions in front of them.

I am a civil engineering student and i get this question from my girlfriend and some of my friends "What use is maths anyway" "Science is boring" and my favorite of all is "Don't even talk to me about physics, haven't got a clue" and i say fine let them be ignorant if they choose to be.

Jan Hus

Unless you are a philosopher you will agree that art and beauty are ends in themselves. Maths, at its most subtle and beautiful, is an art form. Set theory, for instance, is phenomenally beautiful. The theories that lie behind both real and complex analysis (they are generally the same thing - point set topography) are very subtle and more than a little tricky to understand. Yet the ends are worth the effort. Unlike science, in mathematics you can prove something beyond all doubt. The joy of seeing mathematics, which grows from four different foundations, come together is nothing short of amazing. Algebra, Analysis, Geometry and Logic (by this I mean set theory) merge in so many different ways. Put Geometry and Logic together and you get topography. Throw in geometry and analysis and mathematics spits out differential geometry. Despite these differences one can see one structure gradually emerging. We will never create a theory of all maths - Cantor and Russell devoted their lives to trying - and failed. Godel proved that none lies in set theory, and I seriously don't think anything is going to come out of Category theory. That means that mathematics is the only scientific field that will never run dry. Physics will one day go the same way as chemistry, as will biology. As Gauss said "Mathematics is the queen of sciences, and number theory is the queen of mathematics." I am not sure what you are allowed to do insofar as the LC is concerned, but introduce your students to the concept of a proof - to geometry and number theory. Number theory is not stunningly beautiful field, but it does have a low entry bar and an immense "fun" appeal. Plus it will get your students to think critically. Plato notes this alone as a reason for the teaching of geometry. His "world of perfect forms" is also an interesting idea, if a trifle metaphysical.

Sources: I am a sixteen year old home-educated student

Jan Hus

I forgot to put this in my previous post, but maths also has many practical applications (I doubt the government - practically minded as they are would include it otherwise). Even the movements of your student's eyes as they "glaze over" can be modeled as a diff equation. Even classical physics is incomprehensible without pre-algebra. Einstein needed tensor analysis in general relativity - though special relativity merely requires basic calculus (except to derive it). Quantum mechanics takes place on "Hilbert spaces" which are constructions in basic abstract algebra (not majorly different to our own Euclidean space).
Closer to home a computer stores data based on an algorithm that involves transforming analogue data into Fourier series (depressingly, today many computer scientists are not mathematically literate) which can then be stored digitally. This little subroutine is involved in literally every digital device from smartphones to smartcars. What more needs to be said. The language of the universe is mathematics. The instinctive language of humanity too is mathematical (if the innateness theory is true it must be). Our technology is binary. Basic arithmetic is involved in soccer, and the movement of the ball is in differential equations.

b318isp

Perhaps ask them to think about what is used for...

business - sales, production, logistic, commerce
economics
engineering and design
science
software development
databases and search engines
weather forecasting
environmental predictions
architectural design
-and many things teenagers are interested in - mobile phones, playstations, cars, tablets/ipads, music/video, internet

etc., etc.

Have you ever read 'Professor Stewart's Cabinet of Mathematical Curiosities', will its an easy read, witty, and I see on amazon reviews a teacher saying that it is a great source and was used a few times in classes and the puzzles have really caught students imagination.

It might be worth a read.

Justin1982

acurno wrote: »

I'm a secondary school maths teacher, and every day, without fail, I get asked the question. Most of the time it's asked out of frustration in not understanding a topic, which is fair enough. Most notably, algebra.

I go out of my way to explaining its use in their everyday life but their eyes glaze over as "off he goes on another rant".

Anyway, seeing as they won't listen to me, are there any videos or instructional material out there that anyone is familiar with that can answer their questions in a "child" friendly manner. I'm familiar with TED, 50symbols etc, but inspirational videos which I find mesmerising don't really cut the mustard with 15 year old fellas who have little chance of focusing for more than 2 minutes.

Told them we'd spend the 40 minutes tomorrow, last class of the term, discussing it.

Most of the applications of Maths in the real world can be understood by even the least mathematically inclinded student but in fairness its generally boring as hell.

I think the best way to get students interested in maths is through Theoretical Physics which has some fairly wild theories which generally will help even the most hopeless student engage for even a short while.
Anyone that I ever tried to explain Black Holes, Wormholes, Time Travel, The Big Bang and Quantum Theory to seemed to be enthralled by it. And its easy to bring all these strange things back to Maths because they are all based on Maths. Thats how I got interested in Maths.

Other things that will engage students I find is Computer Programming which is very much based on maths and Popular Maths (ie. books like Fermats Last Theorem and The CodeBook)

There is some people who just cannot get interested in Maths. My girlfriend just refuses to accept that anything related to maths is interesting or of any use. C'est la vie!

Ostrom

How about Huff's 'How to lie with statistics'. The contexts of their lives, from public policy, to wages, finance, medical treatment, down to the manner in which their food is marketed to them will be dictated by (often horrifically abused) statistical criteria. Bring in any copy of the daily mail and I'm sure you will find some examples.

Beaninator1980

Jan Hus wrote: »

Unless you are a philosopher you will agree that art and beauty are ends in themselves. Maths, at its most subtle and beautiful, is an art form. Set theory, for instance, is phenomenally beautiful. The theories that lie behind both real and complex analysis (they are generally the same thing - point set topography) are very subtle and more than a little tricky to understand. Yet the ends are worth the effort. Unlike science, in mathematics you can prove something beyond all doubt. The joy of seeing mathematics, which grows from four different foundations, come together is nothing short of amazing. Algebra, Analysis, Geometry and Logic (by this I mean set theory) merge in so many different ways. Put Geometry and Logic together and you get topography. Throw in geometry and analysis and mathematics spits out differential geometry. Despite these differences one can see one structure gradually emerging. We will never create a theory of all maths - Cantor and Russell devoted their lives to trying - and failed. Godel proved that none lies in set theory, and I seriously don't think anything is going to come out of Category theory. That means that mathematics is the only scientific field that will never run dry. Physics will one day go the same way as chemistry, as will biology. As Gauss said "Mathematics is the queen of sciences, and number theory is the queen of mathematics." I am not sure what you are allowed to do insofar as the LC is concerned, but introduce your students to the concept of a proof - to geometry and number theory. Number theory is not stunningly beautiful field, but it does have a low entry bar and an immense "fun" appeal. Plus it will get your students to think critically. Plato notes this alone as a reason for the teaching of geometry. His "world of perfect forms" is also an interesting idea, if a. trifle metaphysical.

Sources: I am a sixteen year old home-educated student

Thinly veiled I-think-I-am-a-mathematical-genius-and-a-philosopher-at-16-and-everyone-should-know-it post

nocturnal74

acurno wrote: »

I'm a secondary school maths teacher, and every day, without fail, I get asked the question. Most of the time it's asked out of frustration in not understanding a topic, which is fair enough. Most notably, algebra.

I go out of my way to explaining its use in their everyday life but their eyes glaze over as "off he goes on another rant".

Anyway, seeing as they won't listen to me, are there any videos or instructional material out there that anyone is familiar with that can answer their questions in a "child" friendly manner. I'm familiar with TED, 50symbols etc, but inspirational videos which I find mesmerising don't really cut the mustard with 15 year old fellas who have little chance of focusing for more than 2 minutes.

Told them we'd spend the 40 minutes tomorrow, last class of the term, discussing it.

I'm a Numeracy teacher in Belfast and I understand your "what are we doing this for?" predicament! I understand so well because I get them when they leave school having learnt very little!

It sounds like they are distracting you for the purpose of avoiding trying to do the work. I think no matter how well you personalise and contextualise your subject you are fighting a losing battle. If they are determined to not learn they will use you as an excuse... "my maths teacher didn't tell me the real life application for this content therefore I couldn't learn!"

At 15 years old these particular 'students' are not ready for properly learning Mathematics! They won't be until they are say 30 years old and mature enough to finally understand that numerical competence is key to living in the 21st century.

You sound like you are a new teacher and you will learn the only way (the hard way)and what a difficult job trying to teach Mathematics to these pupils is so don't beat yourself up too much about it. So try your best with explaining the application and contextualise as best you can. You will find these 15 year old pupils are not interested in mathematical applications and hence why they find it boring. I find this works ONLY for mature adults or children who are willing and determined to learn. Trying to contextualise algebra in the hope of motivating them is a very difficult task indeed. As I teach numeracy I use action based learning for measure, shape and space, money, cooking ratios etc. etc.

For these types of pupils schools should forget about teaching 'mathematics' (i.e. no algebra) and teach them numeracy instead. There have been a few pilot programmes in the North that have tried this but as yet the schools have not yet adopted what I think is the 'lesser of 2 evils' for our 'maths hating' society! Compare our society to any Asian society and you will know what I am talking about!

I went to a Christian Brothers grammar school and if I continually asked what is this used for I'd have received a duster or fist in the back of the head! You know what... it worked well compared to schooling nowadays!



@Beaninator1980... no offence but you would last approximately 10 seconds trying to do my job of teaching mathematics/numeracy!

Celly Smunt

I hated maths in school,almost failed it in the leaving (d2 i think).It wasn't until i studied engineering that i fell in love with it.I suppose when you realise that pretty much EVERYTHING is maths and how maths works in everyday life you start to appriciate it.

The second level education system in Ireland really has some questions to answer when it comes to connecting students with the meaning of maths and sucking the fun out of something so interesting,it's not just x's and y's on a blackboard without a purpose.

TheBegotten

pmcmahon wrote: »

I hated maths in school,almost failed it in the leaving (d2 i think).It wasn't until i studied engineering that i fell in love with it.I suppose when you realise that pretty much EVERYTHING is maths and how maths works in everyday life you start to appriciate it.

The second level education system in Ireland really has some questions to answer when it comes to connecting students with the meaning of maths and sucking the fun out of something so interesting,it's not just x's and y's on a blackboard without a purpose.

Definitly agree with this. The first thing my physics teacher will do after introducing a new concept is tell us how it applys practically. I appreciate this may be difficult for the more theorical side, though it's nearly gone from the JC now.
Another trick is to use humour, be it abstract, observational or even vulgar. Its hard for students to engage with a subject if they don't like the teacher, or vice-versa. They'll pay attention, just in case you come up with a good one.
Your aim shouldn't be to teach them maths, but to make them teach themselves. You should make them realise how the world around them is made of numbers, equations and varibles. Ignite their curiosity.

walshb

Maths to me is the language of the universe. It is used in almost every discipline and application.

I remember an interview recently with the former Intel CEO, Craig Barret. He emphasised mathematics and its place in the educational system. He was telling us to put more effort and resirces into mathematics.

smcgiff

Beaninator1980 wrote: »

Thinly veiled I-think-I-am-a-mathematical-genius-and-a-philosopher-at-16-and-everyone-should-know-it post

Undoubtedly the first of many painfully useless posts.

Great reasoning so far and hopefully the op was able to select enough from some of the early posts to help him with his class.

Oh, Ifeelill, life's too short - get a new girlfriend ;-)

ifeelill

smcgiff wrote: »

Oh, Ifeelill, life's too short - get a new girlfriend ;-)

Bhahahahah she wont be happy to see that

Maybe_Memories

I thought why they brought in this project maths nonsense was to make kids see the applications in maths?

p1akuw47h5r3it

pmcmahon wrote: »

I hated maths in school,almost failed it in the leaving (d2 i think).It wasn't until i studied engineering that i fell in love with it.I suppose when you realise that pretty much EVERYTHING is maths and how maths works in everyday life you start to appriciate it.

The second level education system in Ireland really has some questions to answer when it comes to connecting students with the meaning of maths and sucking the fun out of something so interesting,it's not just x's and y's on a blackboard without a purpose.

I think this sums it up well. I was the same. I've only started really liking Maths since I started studying Physics in Uni.

It's knowing the applications of maths that make it interesting. This is something your never told about in school when starting a new topic etc.

httpete

Probably the most relevant real world example to give them is that every game they play on their XBox or Playstation uses tons of math. The 3D graphics and physics are all mathematical models. Show them how linear algebra relates to a 3D game world or how differential equations model the physics in a game. Math would be far more interesting to them when it is presented in the context of something that they love..ie games.

TheBody

Hopefully the new enquiry based approach that is advocated in project maths will go some way in getting students to understand the uses of maths in the real world.

MoogPoo

I always thought you can't do it justice. You can say oh it's used in this, this and this.. but that doesn't really show how broad it is. And if they're not interested in those topics then they think its pointless. You can't fully see how useful it is until you know a good bit.
I always thought it was like trying to explain why you should learn to read and write to an illiterate person, not that I know any.

Edit: Or if you know a lot, you could ask your class to try and think of something that doesn't use any mathematics and prove them wrong. That would be fun