is this wrong?

clarbar

Hi I am in a fas course this course is finished next August. our tutor was out yesterday and one of the classmate went up to the tutors laptop and seen private messages from the tutor to the substitute basically slagging off the class. one of the girls father is homeless its her own business but the tutor said in a message have you seen the bimbo , the ''model'' the mobsters daughter and the homeless junkies daughter ... making a joke of it now we have found this highly disgusting especially sterotyping us to a substitute that barely knew us . Yes it was wrong to see the private messages but it is very offensive what should we do are we right to get bad?

username123

If you look at someones private messages the important thing to remember is private.

Are you insinuating that you or any of your classmates have never privately made an off colour joke to someone about someone else? And if the subject of the joke heard it they would be gravely offended? If you havent you are the only human alive who hasnt.

The only person in the wrong here is the disgusting individual who looked at someone elses private messages and shared the content of them around.

nottherealdeal

Yes what that person wrote was horrible and they were saying things that should never be said.

People can be nasty but in this case they were doing so privately it was just unfortunate that ye saw the PRIVATE messages.

We've all made comments that are uncalled for and unpc but as usually they are in jest or if not we say them to close friends who would never repeat them.

This guy was stupid for two reasons 1) for even saying the comments 2) for leaving his laptop lying around an open space.
I would just put it down to stupidity and forget about it.

irishgirl19

I dont agree with this. remember the employees in Vodafone were sacked because they were caught sending PRIVATE messages slagging off the customers, this is more or less the same thing.
OP your FAS tutor is supposed to be someone in a position of trust and that type of offensive behaviour is unacceptable.
I was in a fas course last year when I was 19 and a lot of the other trainees were similar ages and minors too.
I wouldn't hesitate about reporting this. Can anyone here imagine how uncomfortable it would be to be taught every day by somebody who would say horrible things about the students

LegacyUser

I'd be livid, in hindsight you should have clicked send to all contacts so everyone knows what a pr1ck they are. I disagree that it's private. There must be a fas employee code of conduct, this wasn't just gossip with a mate he was slagging your class off to a colleague, it was highly unprofessional. Sadly unless you can get a copy of the email from the substitute there is no way to prove that the tutor did it.

Ellsbells

So ye broke into someone's laptop and found something you didn't find pleasing. Now you want to stir it for the lecturer. How about minding your own business??

What he did wasn't nice but if he called the class nosey, intrusive and sneaky wouldn't it be true?

Was it on hotmail or the college email system? I personally think ye should all be kicked off the course for abusing college / private property.

Talk about double standards!! It's like a thief breaking into someone's house and being annoyed cos they see something that offends them!! What ye did was illegal! Surely there are college rules against breaking into someone else's property too???

CarMe

Yeah OP freedom of speech allows him to say whatever he wants in the PRIVACY of his own e-mails! It will be a very sad day if we had rules in how to conduct ourselves in private.

My friend was getting trained in in a new job and when the guy training her went on break he left his computer open for her to mess around with and get used to the system, being noisy she read his e-mails and found loads of mails between him and another guy in the office calling her a big baboon and other horrible names, when she rang me upset i was LIVID but then realised if someone read my private e-mails who knows what they could find, they're private for a reason and I think what you did was far worse than what he did.

irishgirl19

if its on a work email its hardly private

Ellsbells

irishgirl19 wrote: »

if its on a work email its hardly private

Did she say it was on a work email? She said private messages.

CarMe

irishgirl19 wrote: »

if its on a work email its hardly private

Well i would certainly consider my work e-mails between colleagues private!

CarMe

Also I used to be a trainer and would train groups of people, much like this guy does but they would be new employees in the company and Im certain that if they were found looking through MY work computer through my e-mails be they work or personal, i have no doubt that they'd be sacked immediately for gross misconduct.

yermandan

Quite the quandary. It was wrong to check the computer, it is wrong to be so unprofessional in a position of leadership.

I think the latter is a worse crime than the former and if I was you I would approach the tutor for an explanation, give him the chance.

What your next step is will depend on how satisfied you are with the answer

Ellsbells

If the trainer goes then the people breaking into his property should too.

sambuka41

CarMe wrote: »

Well i would certainly consider my work e-mails between colleagues private!

I would be very careful about that opinion, most companies do have an Email policy, degrading a colleague or student using a work email could see you facing disciplinary action if it was found. You shouldn't use your work email for anything other than work. It would probably fall under a Bullying policy also.

OP it's a nasty thing to have discovered but if it was their personal account there isn't much you can do. Also it's FAS there's probably nothing you could do even if it was his work email, its a completely crap,corrupt organisation.

All you can do is get on with the course, be the bigger person, you'll be free of this twat by next year. Next time someone says they've seen something they shouldn't have and they want to tell you about it, leave the room!!!!!!!!!!

LegacyUser

sambuka41 wrote: »

I would be very careful about that opinion, most companies do have an Email policy, degrading a colleague or student using a work email could see you facing disciplinary action if it was found. You shouldn't use your work email for anything other than work. It would probably fall under a Bullying policy also.

The OP doesn't say it's a work email, only that they saw emails between two people who work at the same place. It may well be the teachers were emailing from their own gmail or other such email accounts. Not every company sets up email accounts for employees.

Was it right that the two teachers gossiped about students and made nasty remarks about them? No but they were private emails and you [ie the class] shouldn't have been looking through them.

CarMe

sambuka41 wrote: »

I would be very careful about that opinion, most companies do have an Email policy, degrading a colleague or student using a work email could see you facing disciplinary action if it was found. You shouldn't use your work email for anything other than work. It would probably fall under a Bullying policy also.

OP it's a nasty thing to have discovered but if it was their personal account there isn't much you can do. Also it's FAS there's probably nothing you could do even if it was his work email, its a completely crap,corrupt organisation.

All you can do is get on with the course, be the bigger person, you'll be free of this twat by next year. Next time someone says they've seen something they shouldn't have and they want to tell you about it, leave the room!!!!!!!!!!

Of course management could look at my emails if they desired though in my seven years never have, however if somebody from outside the company in on a training day or if someone that wouldn't be senior management etc looked through my computer/emails, due to the nature of some of our contracts Im sure the gaurds would be called or at the very least the person would be fired, as I said above.

irishgirl19

CarMe wrote: »

Well i would certainly consider my work e-mails between colleagues private!

Yeah well where I work if I email a colleague, my boss can get access to it if they needed to through the IT dept, and it states this in my contract.

This is not uncommon in the workplace. Sure, I might send my friend an email asking does he want to come out for a drink after work, which would be a personal email, but it still can be read.

Oh and when I was in FAS it was the same thing, all our emails could be read also, I don't see how it is any different for the tutors

CarMe

irishgirl19 wrote: »

Yeah well where I work if I email a colleague, my boss can get access to it if they needed to through the IT dept, and it states this in my contract.

This is not uncommon in the workplace. Sure, I might send my friend an email asking does he want to come out for a drink after work, which would be a personal email, but it still can be read.

Oh and when I was in FAS it was the same thing, all our emails could be read also, I don't see how it is any different for the tutors

See reply above

scarymoon1

i think that's horrible behavior from tutors. Id leave it drop as it was private mails but I wouldn't enjoy my class anymore thinking what the tutor thought of the class. The cheek of the tutor talking about the class like that.

sambuka41

CarMe wrote: »

Of course management could look at my emails if they desired though in my seven years never have, however if somebody from outside the company in on a training day or if someone that wouldn't be senior management etc looked through my computer/emails, due to the nature of some of our contracts Im sure the gaurds would be called or at the very least the person would be fired, as I said above.

Then they aren't private, they are not private between just you and your colleague. You can't send/say whatever you like through a work email, as you are representing the company. If management/other colleague were to find an email where you insulted another colleague you could get in trouble for inappropriate use of your email and bullying. The issue of how someone came about this information is secondary and won't negate your wrong doing.

I'm not agreeing with what the students done, they are in a awkward position now because they were looking at emails that were not meant for them. But that doesn't make it ok that this guy was insulting them to his colleague. There are two wrongs here.

But we are talking about FAS it's unlikely anything would be done about it.

CarMe

sambuka41 wrote: »

Then they aren't private, they are not private between just you and your colleague. You can't send/say whatever you like through a work email, as you are representing the company. If management/other colleague were to find an email where you insulted another colleague you could get in trouble for inappropriate use of your email and bullying. The issue of how someone came about this information is secondary and won't negate your wrong doing.

I'm not agreeing with what the students done, they are in a awkward position now because they were looking at emails that were not meant for them. But that doesn't make it ok that this guy was insulting them to his colleague. There are two wrongs here.

But we are talking about FAS it's unlikely anything would be done about it.

I agree that it's a horrible thing to find and speaks volumes about the tutor however it's not specified if it was a work e-mail or a personal e-mail account though I still think that to rifle through a tutors computer is appalling and Im absolutely certain that if they were employees they would be sacked immediately. Nobody is talking about management or IT looking at work e-mails, these are students who rooted through the tutors computer! If students in a class were to take a teachers mobile phone from her desk and read her texts they would be suspended. If gaurds find evidence in somebody's home without a search warrent then its not allowed be used in court. Those pupils shouldn't have never done what they did, I wouldn't be able to enjoy the course now knowing the tutors remarks but that's their own fault.

irishgirl19

I think the tutor has a lot more at stake, he shouldn't be so stupid,he could lose his job over this.
as for the trainees,yeah they could get kicked out of the course,but its not like they are being paid anything more than jobseekers for attending anyway.

CarMe

irishgirl19 wrote: »

I think the tutor has a lot more at stake, he shouldn't be so stupid,he could lose his job over this.
as for the trainees,yeah they could get kicked out of the course,but its not like they are being paid anything more than jobseekers for attending anyway.

How could he lose his job if it was on a personal e-mail account??

irishgirl19

CarMe wrote: »

How could he lose his job if it was on a personal e-mail account??

its not specified which it is. anyway if any of the trainees made a complaint it would still be investigated. the op from what i gather didn't go near his computer, so what if billy told the op what he found and the op decided to report it because he or she was offended, how would the op face any disciplinary. he or she didn't go into the computer himself.

CarMe

irishgirl19 wrote: »

its not specified which it is. .

Exactly.

irishgirl19

CarMe wrote: »

Exactly.

even so, the op still has valid grounds for a complaint. the tutor is representing FAS.

Larkenn

irishgirl19 wrote: »

OP your FAS tutor is supposed to be someone in a position of trust and that type of offensive behaviour is unacceptable.
I wouldn't hesitate about reporting this.

How exactly would the the guy complain without admitting to accessing somebodys personal computer and looking at his private emails. You cant complain if you hack into somebodys private email account and dont like what you read.

The only person at fault here is the guy accessing your tutors computer. And in fact he might find himself in trouble for breaching your tutors privacy.

Just let it go and say nothing. And learn a lesson - if you look at somebodys emails or texts you mightn't like what you read. So it's probably best not to go there in the first place.

Larkenn

irishgirl19 wrote: »

the op from what i gather didn't go near his computer, so what if billy told the op what he found and the op decided to report it because he or she was offended, how would the op face any disciplinary. he or she didn't go into the computer himself.

He probably wouldn't but Billy would most likely be kicked off the course. I can't see Billy thanking the OP for this. Just let it go and move on.

kippy

Larkenn wrote: »

He probably wouldn't but Billy would most likely be kicked off the course. I can't see Billy thanking the OP for this. Just let it go and move on.

What the tutor did was highly unprofessional but so long as it doesn't affect their delivery of the course and doesn't go against their terms of employment or was illegal, it would be difficult to do anything about it. It would of course possibly undermine your opinion of the tutor.
However the guy who found the information and told everyone else about it could be in some serious trouble.
If years feel it warrants a complaint then ensure the guy who found the data is aware of possible repercussions.
There is the strong chance that the laptop is private property and not that of the organisation.

irishgirl19

irishgirl19 wrote: »

even so, the op still has valid grounds for a complaint. the tutor is representing FAS.

The tutor is representing FÁS when at work, in their interactions with other people.

But when the tutor is having a conversation on their own time, on their own computer, they're humans. Humans need to have a bitch/gossip now and again, and all humans get bitched about at some stage. OP I hate to sound insensitive but you've just got to get over it. At least the tutor was gossiping to their colleague instead of their family or friends.

I would never talk about customers from my work to anyone outside my work, but when you work with people, you're going to get driven mad by them at times, and usually the best thing to do is have a rant/gossip/bitch to someone else in the same position as you, rather than holding it in or spreading it elsewhere.

LegacyUser

O.P. have a read of this FAS Employee Code of Ethics http://www.fas.ie/en/About+Us/Home/Employee+Code+of+Ethics.htm I think it's quite clear that what happened is unacceptable. If more than one of your class mates are willing to say that they saw the email I think you could make a formal complaint if you wanted to. Considering what was said by this <Mod Snip> he deserves it.

Equality

'What the tutor did was highly unprofessional but so long as it doesn't affect their delivery of the course and doesn't go against their terms of employment or was illegal, it would be difficult to do anything about it.'

The trouble is that it will affect their delivery of the course. If a tutor/teacher disrespects a student like this, they should not be teaching them. The tutor may be grading the student, in which case the student has significant cause for concern. Poor grades will be given to the students who are disrespected by the tutor, and if these grades are based on the tutor's opinion of the student's parent, this is a disgrace.

If a tutor disrespects any student in their class in this manner, it is a serious matter. The class rep/any student could contact FAS and request a different tutor, citing the reason why. This could lead to the tutor losing their job, but as has been pointed out, the students do not have jobs, and therefore can't lose their jobs. It would be better to complain now, because a complaint made after this tutor has graded the work has little weight.

kippy

Equality wrote: »

'What the tutor did was highly unprofessional but so long as it doesn't affect their delivery of the course and doesn't go against their terms of employment or was illegal, it would be difficult to do anything about it.'

The trouble is that it will affect their delivery of the course. If a tutor/teacher disrespects a student like this, they should not be teaching them. The tutor may be grading the student, in which case the student has significant cause for concern. Poor grades will be given to the students who are disrespected by the tutor, and if these grades are based on the tutor's opinion of the student's parent, this is a disgrace.

If a tutor disrespects any student in their class in this manner, it is a serious matter. The class rep/any student could contact FAS and request a different tutor, citing the reason why. This could lead to the tutor losing their job, but as has been pointed out, the students do not have jobs, and therefore can't lose their jobs. It would be better to complain now, because a complaint made after this tutor has graded the work has little weight.

How exactly had the student been disrespected?
Without knowing more about the situation it is completely impossible to know whether this will or will not effect delivery of the course.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

How exactly had the student been disrespected?
Without knowing more about the situation it is completely impossible to know whether this will or will not effect delivery of the course.

I will say heat the instructor did was very unprofessional and a complaint should be made, it could be messy however.

gerryd2

To all the people attacking the OP. It wasn't the OP who read the emails it was a classmate and how do you expect the OP to react after hearing the tutor talk about classmates private lives to strangers. When you do any type of training or education you expect the people in charge to treat others with respect and not result to joke making about peoples struggles behind their backs. One girls father is a druggie and homeless, how exactly is that her fault. Shes no control over her fathers actions but lets joke cowardly behind her back to each other through emails. As if she hasn't been through enough already with that situation, now she has to sit a full year in a class with the knowledge that her tutor thinks her lives a joke. Big confidence booster that is.

My advice to the OP is get everyone in the class to send notes joking about the Tutor to each other and find things out about his personal life to joke about. The only way cowards like this tutor learn respect is by giving them some of their own medicine.

kippy

gerryd2 wrote: »

To all the people attacking the OP. It wasn't the OP who read the emails it was a classmate and how do you expect the OP to react after hearing the tutor talk about classmates private lives to strangers. When you do any type of training or education you expect the people in charge to treat others with respect and not result to joke making about peoples struggles behind their backs. One girls father is a druggie and homeless, how exactly is that her fault. Shes no control over her fathers actions but lets joke cowardly behind her back to each other through emails. As if she hasn't been through enough already with that situation, now she has to sit a full year in a class with the knowledge that her tutor thinks her lives a joke. Big confidence booster that is.

My advice to the OP is get everyone in the class to send notes joking about the Tutor to each other and find things out about his personal life to joke about. The only way cowards like this tutor learn respect is by giving them some of their own medicine.

But if the tutor never knows about the notes how does it harm him/her?

gerryd2

kippy wrote: »

But if the tutor never knows about the notes how does it harm him/her?

You pass them around in a way that he sees notes being passed around and like any teacher I ever had, he/she will ask to see them and giving his nature to joke about private lives he'll want to read the gossip on that note.

Its not the nicest way of dealing with it but dealing with it through the right channels can be very long, messy, he could delete the emails and say the people who made the accusations have a grudge against him or Fas could be understaffed that he just gets warned.

I'd hate to think what type of emails this tutor would send if he had to tutor a disabled persons fas course.

username123

gerryd2 wrote: »

My advice to the OP is get everyone in the class to send notes joking about the Tutor to each other and find things out about his personal life to joke about. The only way cowards like this tutor learn respect is by giving them some of their own medicine.

Thats a suggestion Id expect from a child.

My advice would be for the OP to get on with the course of education she is supposed to be studying and dont engage with childish behaviour in the class.

kippy

gerryd2 wrote: »

You pass them around in a way that he sees notes being passed around and like any teacher I ever had, he/she will ask to see them and giving his nature to joke about private lives he'll want to read the gossip on that note.

Its not the nicest way of dealing with it but dealing with it through the right channels can be very long, messy, he could delete the emails and say the people who made the accusations have a grudge against him or Fas could be understaffed that he just gets warned.

I'd hate to think what type of emails this tutor would send if he had to tutor a disabled persons fas course.

What good would that do, for anyone?

Equality

It is disrespectful to make negative personal comments about anyone.

It is even more disrespectful to make a negative reference to a person's parents, and to imply that the child is similar to the parent, as in this case the child is being punished for the behaviour of the parent, and they have no control over the parent's actions.

The reality is that if a teacher is grading your work, and disrespects you in this manner, it has the potential to influence the grade you are given.

I would recommend that you complain before any assignments are graded.

kippy

Equality wrote: »

It is disrespectful to make negative personal comments about anyone.

It is even more disrespectful to make a negative reference to a person's parents, and to imply that the child is similar to the parent, as in this case the child is being punished for the behaviour of the parent, and they have no control over the parent's actions.

The reality is that if a teacher is grading your work, and disrespects you in this manner, it has the potential to influence the grade you are given.

I would recommend that you complain before any assignments are graded.

If you are going to raise a complaint based on this logic, you'd want to be willing to accept the fact that lots of other things have the potential to influence your grade yet you expect that these don't come into it.

gerryd2

username123 wrote: »

Thats a suggestion Id expect from a child.

My advice would be for the OP to get on with the course of education she is supposed to be studying and dont engage with childish behaviour in the class.

Well theres an old saying, Fight fire with fire. I know its very childish but passing emails like that to each other is very childish as well and the fact that its professionals doing so makes that even more childish.

How are people supposed to put their minds into education when in the back of their minds they know they're being JUDGED by the person they put trust in to teach them. My way is just like turning someone intimidating into a cartoon character to laugh at so you feel less intimidated. A self help technique thats been proven to work.

username123

gerryd2 wrote: »

How are people supposed to put their minds into education when in the back of their minds they know they're being JUDGED by the person they put trust in to teach them.

But everyone judges everyone in life, its a part of being human. I couldnt care less about what my teacher thinks of me on a personal level, its irrelevant to my relationship with them. They are a tool for me to utilise to learn, not a friend who I want to like me.

If the people in the class showed a bit of maturity in the first place non of this would be going on. Its my opinion that they do not want to learn and that any excuse will do to cause a problem, waste time and get out of the actual reason for being there - which is to learn.

Heather22

People have said things behind peoples backs since time began its human nature. However private is private and no one would like others to see what they are really thinking. I am sure there have been things said behind the tutors back. Lets put it this way would you show your private messages to anyone?