Purchase shooting rights

EPointer=Birdss

Lads
Can you legally purchase exclusive shooting rights from farmers?

This time of year with poachers around & the usual ignorant lads that say they've permission from farmers & shoot as close to reserved club lands as possible I'm wondering can you legally buy the rights for club members only.

Have ran 2 lads recently for entering lands I know they've no permission on & 1 on land I'm not sure about as farmer lives away & I rarely meet him. Same guy was poaching on our grounds last year & doesn't give a ****. No interest in joining, helping out etc. He's bn very clear about that.

Spending a small fortune each year gets very disheartening to have this sort come shoot & with the attitude they have possibly ruin it for everyone else.

It wasn't me!

Sporting rights are a saleable commodity. No reason at all you couldn't buy them for the gunclub, assuming the farmer's up for it. It would give you a lot more control in terms of running folks off who shouldn't be there, and a legal basis for demanding identification as well, as I recall.

Vizzy

While I fully agree that the sporting rights are saleable,I would hate to see "club land" going this way.
I would assume that 3 things would happen if you had to pay farmers to shoot on their land;
1. Farmers would end up in a bidding war to attract the club and hence dosh
2. It won't take long for the ordinary club member from being outpriced by outsiders of not only the Club but probably the county:eek:
3. If we end up with "pay per shoot",will this lead to "paid vermin control" ?.

Epointer,I'd hate to see you carrying the bag for some gobs**te so that you can excercise the dog.

EPointer=Birdss

Vizzy wrote: »

While I fully agree that the sporting rights are saleable,I would hate to see "club land" going this way.
I would assume that 3 things would happen if you had to pay farmers to shoot on their land;
1. Farmers would end up in a bidding war to attract the club and hence dosh
2. It won't take long for the ordinary club member from being outpriced by outsiders of not only the Club but probably the county:eek:
3. If we end up with "pay per shoot",will this lead to "paid vermin control" ?.

Epointer,I'd hate to see you carrying the bag for some gobs**te so that you can excercise the dog.

Luckily this is just one body of land but very valid points raised.
I'd love to go back the pompous pk & wave the rights in front of him! Same fella is in 2 other clubs yet coz we work & they don't he'd rather come here for free!

Vizzy

E-pointer,can you not effectively wave "the rights" in front of him at the moment i.e. club membership?.
Really it is up to the farmer(and I am not criticising him for a second) or yourselves to report it to the farmer to ensure that you don't have unwanted guests on the club land.
We would have the same situation here as well although there are a few farmers who are particularly protective of their land and the club members who carry out vermin control,fence fixing,highlighting problems with stock etc and I kid you not,do not take kindly to any unauthorised visitors.
We would have about 5000 acres between 80 or so members but as usual we will probably only shoot 1/10th of that.My attitude is that if the farmer doesn't know me I would tend to stay away from his/her land and I will wait to be "invited on" by other club members who are known to that particular farmer.
Common courtesy really.................................or maybe I'm just too soft.

EPointer=Birdss

Vizzy wrote: »

E-pointer,can you not effectively wave "the rights" in front of him at the moment i.e. club membership?.
Really it is up to the farmer(and I am not criticising him for a second) or yourselves to report it to the farmer to ensure that you don't have unwanted guests on the club land.
We would have the same situation here as well although there are a few farmers who are particularly protective of their land and the club members who carry out vermin control,fence fixing,highlighting problems with stock etc and I kid you not,do not take kindly to any unauthorised visitors.
We would have about 5000 acres between 80 or so members but as usual we will probably only shoot 1/10th of that.My attitude is that if the farmer doesn't know me I would tend to stay away from his/her land and I will wait to be "invited on" by other club members who are known to that particular farmer.
Common courtesy really.................................or maybe I'm just too soft.

You see some farmers are hardcore & will run anyone.
Others don't want any grief & I'd be afraid of them saying right kids now no one can play!

Problem is we have a private landowner or living in locality syndicate type set up of a few members paying the way of many only a few hundred acres & this land was owned by one of those. He's passed away & the new guy is rarely around. This leach has seen an opportunity & moved it it appears. We never asked new guy for exclusive rights as was never an issue with last guy but your man is claiming he has permission.
Might be nothing that can be done but I know for a fact he'll get bolder & bolder & there will be war some day he's got near release runs etc filling up his bag whether caught by members or the hardcore landowners that just about give the likes of me permission.

Vizzy

Yeah, thats a problem alright.
If it was me i would just talk to the new farmer and advise him of the situation.As you say most farmers don't want grief but I would suspect that he won't want people wandering the land without permission either.At least if one of the lads in the club breaks a fence or,god forbid,spooks a beast and causes damage,he will have some comeback.
Again in our case we had been trying to get permission on a particular estate for about 10 years and finally got "provisional" permission this year.Unbelieveably strict rules to be allowed to shoot it though( no training dogs on it,no duck shooting,must have club card with you at all times etc) and if any club member f***s it up he will probably be publicly crucified cos there are another 600 acres on the estate which are even better.
The owner then has a handle on who is on the land at any time as well and he recently produced photos of cars parked at various gates/entrances to the club secretary to get them verified.

cookimonster

Careful, know a lad whose club lost a permission that included the clubs maintained / stocked duck pond all over a dispute over ex club members shooting the land in which the farmer was drawn into by existing club members. He told the club to finish out the season and that was it no more.

I've shot on club lands over the years with permission of land owners and or game keepers with the express understanding that game was off limits and certain days or periods where no go. But guys coming onto maintained land and taken game or what not uninvited is poaching plain and simple.

berettaman

This a real problem. I started a thread on this last year. We had guys travelling out from a local town and shooting lands that were in the gun club area, with birds released on grounds etc. The farmer didn't want want hassle so he said he wasn't going to stop them (even though he was unsure who they were!). I made some ground when I mentioned that they might not be insured but it was tough going for a while.
It ended up that we had to have plenty of gun club members on the grounds in the opening of the season to deter them a bit. It ruined the shooting but eventually they got the message. Also these lads were shooting Monday to Friday wheras our club only shoots Sat Sun to give the birds a chance.
One of them even had the balls to tell one of the land owners that they had released birds!!
A couple of years ago we had a guy from a different gun club hunting the land on the day before the season with a springer and a side by side. "He was only firing a few shots to steady the dog!!" :mad:
I could go on...

berettaman

Last years thread is here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056429285&page=2

Ezridax had some sound advice:
All the answers you need are above.

If he has individual permission you can do nothing.
If he has no permission its up to the landowner to enforce prosecution if you go that route.
If he is shooting before the season, then calling the Gardai would work, but he must be caught in the act as hearsay would not count. Your word against his.
If he is just shooting, but nothing that has a season, there is nothing to be done at all.

Any other scenario is based on a mulitples of the above

berettaman

Some lads think that we want it to be like landed gentry and keep lads from shooting. However, If you buy the birds, release the birds, feed the birds, control the vermin and help the farmer with any issue he has such as crows on corn etc, then you should be able to hunt those birds in peace. Sorry if that sounds unreasonable...

EPointer=Birdss

berettaman wrote: »

Some lads think that we want it to be like landed gentry and keep lads from shooting. However, If you buy the birds, release the birds, feed the birds, control the vermin and help the farmer with any issue he has such as crows on corn etc, then you should be able to hunt those birds in peace. Sorry if that sounds unreasonable...

Agree 100%
I'm moving house shortly & it's bang in another club. Would I shoot even if I had permission which I do as know one farmer very well. No I would not because it's the height of ignorance for all the reasons you just outlined!

hunterpajero

farmers own the land not gun clubs its there decision who and who not to let in,gun club members or not

EPointer=Birdss

hunterpajero wrote: »

farmers own the land not gun clubs its there decision who and who not to let in,gun club members or not

Thanks for stating the obvious.
However not in question & not the point of the thread.

beanie10

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Lads
Can you legally purchase exclusive shooting rights from farmers?

This time of year with poachers around & the usual ignorant lads that say they've permission from farmers & shoot as close to reserved club lands as possible I'm wondering can you legally buy the rights for club members only.

Have ran 2 lads recently for entering lands I know they've no permission on & 1 on land I'm not sure about as farmer lives away & I rarely meet him. Same guy was poaching on our grounds last year & doesn't give a ****. No interest in joining, helping out etc. He's bn very clear about that.

Spending a small fortune each year gets very disheartening to have this sort come shoot & with the attitude they have possibly ruin it for everyone else.

Wish my local gun club was like this! I got stone-walled last year when I asked to join, giving some bull**** reason about only taking on new members at a certain time of year.My opinion is you either want new members or you dont. Told them politely to **** off and made it a personal goal to get the farmers permission to shoot on club lands.
I now have more permission than club does and I tell them when I meet them out.

salarluttra

yes you can lease/rent/buy shooting rights just draw up a simple agreement get it signed and witnessed , however one thing i would advise is to check that the landowner actually owns the shooting rights , a lot of the big estates still own the sporting rights to thousands of acres of land even though they got broken up with the land commission , my wifes home place even though her family has owned it for over 100 years is like that, a local 'landlord' family still own the sporting rights it is stated in the deeds of the farm :mad:

dicky82

berettaman wrote: »

Some lads think that we want it to be like landed gentry and keep lads from shooting. However, If you buy the birds, release the birds, feed the birds, control the vermin and help the farmer with any issue he has such as crows on corn etc, then you should be able to hunt those birds in peace. Sorry if that sounds unreasonable...

why not give lads the opportunity to join the club, release birds, control vermin help with pens etc. i have tried to join three local clubs and have met the same closed shop bull**** all the time. so i went straight to the farmers myself and got permissions direct. i shoot foxes, trap magpies, shoot pigeons over crops, ferret rabbits in winter and shoot them in summer, release my own birds and put out feeders in the season.i take only a handful of birds in the season. i would have gladly done all this under the name of any local club but due to the koral they operate this is what i was left with.

EPointer=Birdss

dicky82 wrote: »

why not give lads the opportunity to join the club, release birds, control vermin help with pens etc. i have tried to join three local clubs and have met the same closed shop bull**** all the time. so i went straight to the farmers myself and got permissions direct. i shoot foxes, trap magpies, shoot pigeons over crops, ferret rabbits in winter and shoot them in summer, release my own birds and put out feeders in the season.i take only a handful of birds in the season. i would have gladly done all this under the name of any local club but due to the koral they operate this is what i was left with.

You see in my case when asked why not try & get involved & do all you said Dicky to which the answer was why would I when ye do it all?
Would you want that type around?
I'd be in fear of losing current permissions with this type walking around!
Gonna be at the other side of the coin myself shortly in new area. Already gotten the closed shop feel without asking or saying but I intend proving my worth first then asking. Aka having a pen full of birds & vermin stocked up when I go about asking.
There's a way of asking that can help open doors.
After that the gloves are off if I can get permissions.

Birdnuts

salarluttra wrote: »

yes you can lease/rent/buy shooting rights just draw up a simple agreement get it signed and witnessed , however one thing i would advise is to check that the landowner actually owns the shooting rights , a lot of the big estates still own the sporting rights to thousands of acres of land even though they got broken up with the land commission , my wifes home place even though her family has owned it for over 100 years is like that, a local 'landlord' family still own the sporting rights it is stated in the deeds of the farm :mad:

Thats more common than alot of people think. The Carter landlords owned the hunting rights on my land in North Mayo up till the 60's. AFAIK the Lord Lucan estate still owns the hunting rights over a vast acerage of land to the North and West of Castlebar.

dicky82

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

You see in my case when asked why not try & get involved & do all you said Dicky to which the answer was why would I when ye do it all?
Would you want that type around?
I'd be in fear of losing current permissions with this type walking around!
Gonna be at the other side of the coin myself shortly in new area. Already gotten the closed shop feel without asking or saying but I intend proving my worth first then asking. Aka having a pen full of birds & vermin stocked up when I go about asking.
There's a way of asking that can help open doors.
After that the gloves are off if I can get permissions.

that lad wouldn't give a monkey's weather you had written, verbal or paid permission on land. the only way to deal with that lad is to follow him around and bug the crap out of him when he's trying to hunt. let the land owners know what he's up to.

EPointer=Birdss

dicky82 wrote: »

that lad wouldn't give a monkey's weather you had written, verbal or paid permission on land. the only way to deal with that lad is to follow him around and bug the crap out of him when he's trying to hunt. let the land owners know what he's up to.

I wouldnt bother my ass. I'd hatcam him being told it's reserved land with a date stamp & if seen again it will be sent via solicitor to the guards. The loss of his firearm might deter him a bit!
I've no problem sharing or involving lads where possible but not scuts who are in other clubs & would rather have it all ways!

deeksofdoom

I don't see how buying or renting the shooting rights off the farmers is going to help you. The gent is already shooting on land without having the shooting rights so I don't think it will matter to him who has them, he's a poacher its what poachers do.

Your only going to put yourself and the club to extra expense going down the legal route for someone who doesn't give a toss about legalities.:rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

The difference is that if you own the shooting rights, you have the authority to bring prosecutions or otherwise enforce your position on the guy, rather than trying to convince the farmer to do so, when it's definitely not in his interest.

EPointer=Birdss

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The difference is that if you own the shooting rights, you have the authority to bring prosecutions or otherwise enforce your position on the guy, rather than trying to convince the farmer to do so, when it's definitely not in his interest.

That's exactly my angle.
The guards won't take kindly to Trespass with a firearm either especially if I send them a cd with the proof.
A healthy ticking off by the guards in these times should be enough to put someone off. If it doesn't then what can you do. Either persue at expense or be content in having done what you can & relocate release pens & leave him shoot shadows as that's all that will be left after a year of us packing in the work at that side of the grounds.

deeksofdoom

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

That's exactly my angle.
The guards won't take kindly to Trespass with a firearm either especially if I send them a cd with the proof.
A healthy ticking off by the guards in these times should be enough to put someone off. If it doesn't then what can you do. Either persue at expense or be content in having done what you can & relocate release pens & leave him shoot shadows as that's all that will be left after a year of us packing in the work at that side of the grounds.

So how much are you prepared to spend on buying your shooting rights?

EPointer=Birdss

deeksofdoom wrote: »

So how much are you prepared to spend on buying your shooting rights?

No figure in my head Deeks just throwing out a discussion.

berettaman

dicky82 wrote: »

why not give lads the opportunity to join the club, release birds, control vermin help with pens etc. i have tried to join three local clubs and have met the same closed shop bull**** all the time. so i went straight to the farmers myself and got permissions direct. i shoot foxes, trap magpies, shoot pigeons over crops, ferret rabbits in winter and shoot them in summer, release my own birds and put out feeders in the season.i take only a handful of birds in the season. i would have gladly done all this under the name of any local club but due to the koral they operate this is what i was left with.

We accepted 4 new members this year. It is not a closed shop. The club constitution has a requirement about living in the parish, and that is it. I have been a member for 18 years and the only refusals were due to the outside the area rule. You sound like being an ideal member by the way. Sorry to hear that you can't get sorted locally. Some guys in some clubs are just tools, end of story. Talk to local members again. It is hard to get some members to do anything so outline what you are bringing to the table.B.man