Citizenship advice (its a bit leftfield but bear with me please)

mizhell

Hey there
I know this is a bit of a far out question in regards to a predominantly Irish related topic forum but please bear with me!

My partner is Portuguese Malay and we have just had a baby. We are trying to figure out whether he, as a Eurasian can apply for a Portuguese passport his family are descendants of the Melaka settlement in Malaysia.
Of course this settlement was a long time ago so I was wondering as he is recognized in Malaysia as a Eurasian or Portuguese Malay that maybe he had rights in regards to Portuguese status?
Any help on this would help us considerably as we are trying to figure out a way for him to stay in Ireland with our newborn and with limited time on holiday visa's we are trying to weigh up every option.
Thanking anyone in advance for any enlightenment on this!

Peregrinus

OK, you’re really asking about Portuguese nationality law here. With a nod towards the immense depth of wisdom that can be accessed through boards.ie., detailed knowledge of Portuguese nationality law is not one its stronger points. So I don’t know that you’re going to get any very reliable answers here. You need to speak to a lawyer. A Portuguese lawyer.

Having said that, a few years back I did an survey of the nationality laws of several European states (for academic reasons). Unless the law has changed recently, the general rule in Portugal is that, if you’re not born in Portugal, then citizenship by descent can only go back one generation. You can obtain citizenship on the basis of having a father or a mother born in Portugal, but generally not on the basis of a grandparent or any more remote ancestor having been born there.

There are special rules for former Portuguese colonies - Goa, Macau, etc - but these only apply to relatively recently-held colonies. I don’t think there are any special rules for anyone born in Malaysia.

To be honest, I think your better option is to explore what avenues are created for your partner by the fact that he is the parent of an Irish child, and the conjugal partner of yourself. (I’m assuming you’re either an Irish citizen or a person with a right to reside in Ireland.) I don’t know whether you and your partner are free to marry, and if you are I wouldn’t say that you ought to marry in order to solve a residency problem, but I’m sure it has crossed your mind that it might make a difference to your partner’s situation if he were married to you.

ResearchWill

mizhell wrote: »

Hey there
I know this is a bit of a far out question in regards to a predominantly Irish related topic forum but please bear with me!

My partner is Portuguese Malay and we have just had a baby. We are trying to figure out whether he, as a Eurasian can apply for a Portuguese passport his family are descendants of the Melaka settlement in Malaysia.
Of course this settlement was a long time ago so I was wondering as he is recognized in Malaysia as a Eurasian or Portuguese Malay that maybe he had rights in regards to Portuguese status?
Any help on this would help us considerably as we are trying to figure out a way for him to stay in Ireland with our newborn and with limited time on holiday visa's we are trying to weigh up every option.
Thanking anyone in advance for any enlightenment on this!

What Nationality do you have. I have looked back over previous posts and as you posted back in 2009 about Lisbon and said "our constitution" I'm going to guess you are an Irish citizen. So ergo your child would be an Irish citizen. If that is the case then all you have to do is apply under the Zambrano decision, http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62009J0034:EN:HTML. You can contact a local immigration solicitor who can confirm if ye can apply. I also assume that you and your other half have been together for more than 9 months and of course have a child another option is a de-facto relationship visa, the norm is two years in a relationship.

Equality

If the child is an Irish or EU citizen, and if he is the father of the child, this confers the right to remain in the EU or Ireland, to look after the child. Getting a work visa may be difficult, as may getting social welfare.

Once he has been legally resident for a period of time he can apply for Irish citizenshp.

This is all easier if he marries you - he then has double rights, both as a parent and as a spouse. It is easier for him to get permission to work as a spouse, so marriage is a good option.

If any attempt is made to deport him (I assume he is in Ireland at present) he should mention his parental rights as the parent of an EU citizen. Once he mentions this, he will not be deported, or if deported he will get a paid flight back to his EU child in Ireland.

ResearchWill

Equality wrote: »

If the child is an Irish or EU citizen, and if he is the father of the child, this confers the right to remain in the EU or Ireland, to look after the child. Getting a work visa may be difficult, as may getting social welfare.

Once he has been legally resident for a period of time he can apply for Irish citizenshp.

This is all easier if he marries you - he then has double rights, both as a parent and as a spouse. It is easier for him to get permission to work as a spouse, so marriage is a good option.

If any attempt is made to deport him (I assume he is in Ireland at present) he should mention his parental rights as the parent of an EU citizen. Once he mentions this, he will not be deported, or if deported he will get a paid flight back to his EU child in Ireland.

Zambrano permission has to include working permission and if necessary social welfare, in fact the case was about SW in Belgium. As far marriage spouses of Irish citizens do no have automatic rights to reside and work also decisions on that basis take upto 1 year adding the 3 months waiting time upto 15 months no status.

It seems this person is no where near the deportation process.

srsly78

I know a Brazilian guy that has a Portugese passport (dual nationality). He says he got this because his grandparents were born in Portugal. So that's two generations back it seems.

ResearchWill

srsly78 wrote: »

I know a Brazilian guy that has a Portugese passport (dual nationality). He says he got this because his grandparents were born in Portugal. So that's two generations back it seems.

Considering the OP mentioned the Meleka settlement which was in the control of the Portuguese back in the 16 or 1700's I doubt he can go back two generations.

GUIGuy

Another more recent option would be Britain... If his parents were born pre 1957 when Malaya was a British colony he might be able to investigate that channel irrespective of his Portuguese descent.
Please be aware that AFAIK Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship. So if he ever gets Portuguese, British or Irish citizenship he'll risk losing his Malaysian citizenship.

ResearchWill

GUIGuy wrote: »

Another more recent option would be Britain... If his parents were born pre 1957 when Malaya was a British colony he might be able to investigate that channel irrespective of his Portuguese descent.
Please be aware that AFAIK Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship. So if he ever gets Portuguese, British or Irish citizenship he'll risk losing his Malaysian citizenship.

Now there is a nightmare, British Citizenship at last count there was 6 varieties, some with more rights than others.

British citizenship;
British overseas citizenship;
British overseas territories citizenship;
British national (overseas);
British protected person; and
British subject.

From here http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/aboutcitizenship/ I think it may be British Overseas Citizen at best interesting article here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-rules-leave-stateless-malaysians-in-limbo-2240532.html

mizhell

Thank you all!
I will mull over some of the avenues that you have thrown up there and see what it means for our situation.
Yes I am Irish and the de facto avenue is out as we do not have proof of a two year relationship.
Personally I would like to find out options that would mean we didn't have to get married and he could survive independently of me for no other reason than we have experienced a similar option in Malaysia when we were there and it can put a strain on a relationship and it would be nice to find out all of the options rather than marriage at this stage.
I am really grateful for all your research lads its very helpful
Shell :-)

ResearchWill

mizhell wrote: »

Thank you all!
I will mull over some of the avenues that you have thrown up there and see what it means for our situation.
Yes I am Irish and the de facto avenue is out as we do not have proof of a two year relationship.
Personally I would like to find out options that would mean we didn't have to get married and he could survive independently of me for no other reason than we have experienced a similar option in Malaysia when we were there and it can put a strain on a relationship and it would be nice to find out all of the options rather than marriage at this stage.
I am really grateful for all your research lads its very helpful
Shell :-)

As your partner is the parent of an Irish Citizen child it's a really simple process.

A non-EEA national who does not have a current permission to remain in Ireland and who wishes to request a review of their case under the terms of the Zambrano judgement should write to the Repatriation Division, Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service, Department of Justice and Equality, 13-14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2 and include the following documents:

A colour copy of the bio-data page of the Irish citizen child’s passport (the page with personal details and photo)

· The Irish citizen child’s original birth certificate – a copy is not acceptable.

· A colour copy of the bio-data page of the applicant’s own passport.

· Two colour passport-sized photographs, signed on the back by the applicant.

· A copy of the applicant’s current GNIB certificate of registration (if applicable)

· Documentary evidence that the Irish citizen child is living in the State.

· Proof of the applicant’s address and residence in Ireland (e.g. current utility bills etc).

· Documentary evidence of the role the applicant is playing in his/her child’s life (e.g. letters from schools, crèches, etc).

· Any other information that the applicant considers relevant to his/her case.

In addition, an applicant must provide answers to the following questions:

· Has he/she ever been convicted of a criminal offence in the State or abroad? If so, he/she must provide specific details.

· Are there any charges pending against him/her in the State or abroad? If so, he/she must provide details.

In some cases, DNA evidence of a biological link to the Irish citizen child or children may also be required. Once a decision has been made, that decision and the consequences of the decision will be notified in writing to the persons concerned.

From here http://whatsnew.citizensinformation.ie/2011/06/15/the-zambrano-case-and-parents-of-irish-citizen-children/

It is easier if he is currently in permission, if you are a bit overwhelmed then any immigration solicitor, NACS http://www.nascireland.org/ or FLAC http://www.flac.ie/ will be able to help. In reality he will get a stamp 4 permision (that's a full working permision)

dermo88

Under Malaysian Law, he cannot have dual citizenship. I think it would be advisable to get either Irish Permanent residency status, or an Irish Passport (If and when eligible by virtue of marriage, which I believe takes 7 years of residence). Having said that, I do know of people who hold two passports of two nationalities, although technically its illegal. But it is Asia, so as long as you say nothing, nothing will happen. Relax lah.

He is a Serani, or Eurasian. Portugal has had no colonial rule in Malaysia since the late 1600's. There is a residual ethnic Portuguese community in Malaysia, known as the Kristang, but beyond that, he is for all intensive purposes, a Malaysian.

Peregrinus

dermo88 wrote: »

Under Malaysian Law, he cannot have dual citizenship. I think it would be advisable to get either Irish Permanent residency status, or an Irish Passport (If and when eligible by virtue of marriage, which I believe takes 7 years of residence) .; . .

He cannot get an Irish passport unless he is, or becomes, an Irish citizen.