UTair An-24 Muddy Takeoff

charliehotel

Pretty crazy eh

seven_eleven

Very nearly ran out of runway there.

*Kol*

seven_eleven wrote: »

Very nearly ran out of runway there.

Nothing strange for them I'd say!!!

sparrowcar

Crazy decision to try that take off? Aquaplaned all over the runway.

Ilyushin76

Here is a video from inside

BeardySi

Not it's not... first vid was snowy... :P

Loopy takeoff, sure mud ingestion can't be good for an engine!

Xpro

the pilots are either well used to it or are complete nutjobs:eek:

bluecode

I have taken off from a muddy runway complete with standing water, albeit in something lighter. Not a problem as long as the underlying runway is firm and you factor in the effects of the mud. That's the critical thing.

Looks spectacular on video and on board you can hear the splashes even over the engine sounds and the headset. But it really makes a mess of the aircraft. :mad:

muppet01

its an antonov, therefore will fly with half a wing and no tail:D
and they call the F15 a mudhen..........

Bearcat

Fughin outrageous......crew certainly had a death wish

2nd video not the same....it's half the length in time re the take off roll.

MrPoker

WTF is wrong with Russia? Its an absolute cesspit for aviation. Its justified its title as worlds most dangerous place to board an airliner many times over at this stage. I hope they were not allowing planes to land aswell but it wouldn't surprise me if they were. :eek:

bluecode

Clearly some people here are not completely apprised of the reality of commercial aviation. It wasn't pretty but it was probably safe enough. Messy though.

This is the real world of commercial aviation.

MrPoker

bluecode wrote: »

Clearly some people here are not completely apprised of the reality of commercial aviation. It wasn't pretty but it was probably safe enough. Messy though.

This is the real world of commercial aviation.

I think most people here will back me up when I say that was not safe.
What about if a RTO situation? The plane would surely lose control as it was aquaplaning on the runway. Also what about the the mud sticking to plane? Surly the weight of the mud reduces performance and could cause some serious problems freezing on the leading edges of the aircraft. Other issues like mud stuck to the landing gear and being a Russian plane.... well that's a problem in itself.

zone 1

i flew on one of these AN24 before never again if possible..

Tenger

Xpro wrote: »

the pilots are either well used to it or are complete nutjobs:eek:

I would guess both comments are appropriate.

bluecode

MrPoker wrote: »

I think most people here will back me up when I say that was not safe.
What about if a RTO situation? The plane would surely lose control as it was aquaplaning on the runway. Also what about the the mud sticking to plane? Surly the weight of the mud reduces performance and could cause some serious problems freezing on the leading edges of the aircraft. Other issues like mud stuck to the landing gear and being a Russian plane.... well that's a problem in itself.

How do you know this wasn't factored into decision to take off. Do you know the weight of the aircraft, the length of the runway? The state of the runway beneath the mud? Are you familiar with that aircraft's capabilities?

Basically you're not. It could have been risky but on the basis of that video you cannot tell. Muddy water does not stop an aircraft from leaving the ground if it's taken into account. I already described how I took off from a muddy runway regularly, quite safely and without drama. But funnily enough when a video of one of the take offs was put up on youtube. The usual stupid comments followed. Such as 'highly dangerous' and 'barely made it'. It was usual BS from people ignorant the subject. Eventually it had to be pulled because the operator got nervous of the comments even though the aircraft was operating safely and well within it's limitations.

In the real world pilots have to operate in conditions and situations far removed the world of long tarmac runways. You cannot remove the risk entirely but you can minimise it. Same with operating off snow, bumpy runways, short runways, sloped runways, runways in valleys on the side of hill etc etc.

So maybe it was a totally irresponsible take off or maybe it was a routine operation they were well used to in conditions that are common at that field.

Stovepipe

@bluecode, it looks to me like the concept of accelerate-stop distance doesn't apply in Russian aviation (see also IL-76 take-off in Australia). Apart from that, I doubt if flailing thru feet of mud is healthy for the aircraft (i'm thinking of props, brake units, tyres and inlets to the engines here) and the chances of sliding off the side or the end don't appeal to me. I've done that kind of flying too and it's not fun and the concept of deliberately shaving off safety margins doesn't appeal to me at all.Apart from that, if it did have an overrun event, how would a fire tender get to it to affect a rescue?

regards
Stovepipe

bluecode

Well yes we all know that Russians have a certain reputation often deserved. But my point is that you cannot generalise off a single video.

On the other hand you're thinking like an Engineer. Your job is always to clean up the mess left by the pilots. I'm sure their Engineers curse them for the muddy mess they cause.

As for safety margins, they are eroded when conditions are not optimal. But if we only operated when conditions were perfect. Every aircraft would have six engines, runways would be ten miles long and we would only fly when the sky was blue.

Stovepipe

Well, having flown loaded aircraft off muddy runways, it's not fun but at least when I did it, I had an overrun margin and a no-go point selected. The aircraft was not easy to clean afterwards and it's not good for props, engines and gear. Whatever about commercial realities/priorities, I think those UTair guys were working themselves into a corner and reducing their options. If they had snuffed an engine out, it doesn't bear thinking about. Even a gravel runway beats a wet one anyday.

regards
Stovepipe