NCT - No wiper!

A-Trak

Quick one lads.

Failed the NCT the other week on dipped lights to high, went back to garage that installed the headlight to have adjusted and I'm booked into the retest on Sat. I'll need a lane as they have to test the lights. Should have been a quick 10 minute job.

Last night some absolute unit ripped off one of my front wipers, at the metal arm. So I need a brand new one as I've no wiper. Car is obviously not diving as it's pissing rain.

I've spent the whole day trying to source a replacement in a scrappie, no luck. Main dealer sourced one for me but at the earliest I can get it is Friday and if not then Monday.

If I can't get it replaced, is having NO wiper a fail, or fail dangerous?
If fail, then I can pass with the lights just needing a visual for the wiper. (This is assuming there's no chance of rain at or around the test time.)

djflawless

could be wrong.but if its a retest, cant they only check what you failed last time?

Stheno

djflawless wrote: »

could be wrong.but if its a retest, cant they only check what you failed last time?

Yes for a retest they will just check the lights.

A-Trak

djflawless wrote: »

could be wrong.but if its a retest, cant they only check what you failed last time?

That's what I was thinking, but I'm sure if I was missing a door despite passing the on the initial test, they'd fail me again on the retest even if they were only due to test the lights.

Eireann81

A-Trak wrote: »

That's what I was thinking, but I'm sure if I was missing a door despite passing the on the initial test, they'd fail me again on the retest even if they were only due to test the lights.

I'm sure they will only test the lights. If it's raining the day of the test, will the tester do damage to your windscreen if he turns on the wipers? Or is the wiper arm gone altogether?

A-Trak

Eireann81 wrote: »

I'm sure they will only test the lights. If it's raining the day of the test, will the tester do damage to your windscreen if he turns on the wipers? Or is the wiper arm gone altogether?

Gone altogether, the part that's left doesn't go near the windscreen.

dingus12

Id be surprised if he even noticed.

bazz26

They should only re-test what it failed on.

Bannasidhe

bazz26 wrote: »

They should only re-test what it failed on.

They should but I noticed when I took my car back for a re-test - it failed because the bushings needed replacement - I noticed he also checked two tyres which had been advisory (or whatever they call it when stuff doesn't actually fail but one needs to keep an eye on it). Luckily, I had replaced the two tyres in question as he gave them both a good going over.

Col200sx

When I failed my NCT in my 200sx for a corroded brake like, upon passing the retest (where he needed a lane), I was called to collect my cert.

He said to me with a really pissed-off look on him: "There's a crack in your headlight, if I had tested it first time around you wouldn't have passed", and he just handed me my cert and turned away from me

(For the record there was a miniscule crack, 1cm max, inside the headlight that didn't affect the beam)

dmc17

A-Trak wrote: »

That's what I was thinking, but I'm sure if I was missing a door despite passing the on the initial test, they'd fail me again on the retest even if they were only due to test the lights.

The bast*rds robbed your door too? :mad:

johndaman66

Col200sx wrote: »

He said to me with a really pissed-off look on him: "There's a crack in your headlight, if I had tested it first time around you wouldn't have passed", and he just handed me my cert and turned away from me

Haha funny the way he turns it around and implies your the bad guy. He was after all the one napping on the job...

irishgeo

johndaman66 wrote: »

Haha funny the way he turns it around and implies your the bad guy. He was after all the one napping on the job...

perhaps it was not him that tested it the first time.

will a cracked fog light fail the test?

biko

They can, and will, fail you if they see something else/new that's wrong with the car.
For instance if your lights stopped working just before the retest you might fail on that this time if they check, or missing pieces that were there the first time.

johndaman66

irishgeo wrote: »

perhaps it was not him that tested it the first time.

Still though, doesn't excuse the attitude in my opinion

A-Trak

I think you're on the money there Biko.
I can't see how anybody in their right mind would pass a car with no drivers side wiper, or even miss it.

Also any car I've ever seen tested gets wipers and washers tested before they even reach the lanes. It'd want to be one seriously off the ball tester to miss an entire missing as I'd say testing 30 odd cars a day, testing wipers is an ingrained force of habit.

I'd say I could be looking at a fail dangerous, meaning I'd have to get the car towed.

CiniO

biko wrote: »

They can, and will, fail you if they see something else/new that's wrong with the car.
For instance if your lights stopped working just before the retest you might fail on that this time if they check, or missing pieces that were there the first time.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81390326&postcount=7

CiniO

A-Trak wrote: »

I think you're on the money there Biko.
I can't see how anybody in their right mind would pass a car with no drivers side wiper, or even miss it.

Also any car I've ever seen tested gets wipers and washers tested before they even reach the lanes. It'd want to be one seriously off the ball tester to miss an entire missing as I'd say testing 30 odd cars a day, testing wipers is an ingrained force of habit.

I'd say I could be looking at a fail dangerous, meaning I'd have to get the car towed.

If they wanted to fail OP for lack of wiper, in case of retest it would have to be fail dangerous.

A-Trak

CiniO wrote: »

If they wanted to fail OP for lack of wiper, in case of retest it would have to be fail dangerous.

I am the OP Cini0

CiniO

A-Trak wrote: »

I am the OP Cini0

I completely missed that...

JAMES VTI S

get am arm off another car ?

OldmanMondeo

What car is it? Someone here might have seen one at a scrappies or know of one to be broken down.

Littlehorny

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

get am arm off another car ?

Just about to say does the op know someone with the same model of car:D

JAMES VTI S

not even the same model - just similar arm setup would do

model of car would be grate

CiniO

If OP went initially to NCT centre (for his first full test) without wiper, would they "fail dangerous" this car forcing OP to tow it away from test centre?

A-Trak

Alfa 156. Arm type differs to both the 147 and GT, both are the only 2 Alfa owners I know.

I'm not sure if the post/pre facelift version are interchangeable either.

I'm sure there's a Fiat version that may fit, but I'd be all day driving to scrappies again.

Such is the burden of having the fine taste to be an Alfa owner

JAMES VTI S

if i was you i would be out taking off arms from different cars and bodging it for nct day

looking at them they are not your every day arm but i still would try

Top Dog

Which wiper was broken? Passenger or drivers side?

You could also do a single-wiper conversion that'd keep you safe for now. Position the wiper on the passenger side 1/3 way up the screen and see if it clears a line of sight from the drivers view. I had to do this a while ago when the linkage to the divers side broke. It was either reposition the passenger arm to cover 80% of the screen, or not drive it.

JAMES VTI S

yea but will it pass nct high standards - it probly would lol

i passed my nct even though the car went dead on the lift and needed a jump and then a second jump outside

Top Dog

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

yea but will it pass nct high standards - it probly would lol

Honestly don't know. I don't think it states anywhere that a front windscreen has to have 2 wipers? The point of them is to make it safe for a driver to see in adverse weather so if a single-wiper clears enough of the screen in front of the driver what can they fail it on?

CiniO

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

yea but will it pass nct high standards - it probly would lol

I'm nearly 100% sure it would pass, as the only option for them to fail it is by doing "fail dangerous", which would mean OP has to tow away his car after the test.
They don't do things like that for missing wiper.

JAMES VTI S

a proper singel conversion dose both side see -- anyway thats getting off topic

Top Dog

JAMES VTI S wrote: »

a proper singel conversion dose both side see -- anyway thats getting off topic

Oh I agree, it wouldn't be as good as a proper conversion. But the passenger side wiper on most vehicles has a decent enough sweep pattern of about 120 degrees which might suffice, and scrape by Mr NCT Man

nct tester

CiniO wrote: »

I'm nearly 100% sure it would pass, as the only option for them to fail it is by doing "fail dangerous", which would mean OP has to tow away his car after the test.
They don't do things like that for missing wiper.

It wouldnt be a fail dangerous. and yes you can fail for something that passed the first day, for example if u drive a car in and the airbag light is flashing, you cant exactly turn a blind eye to that. OP, as someone mentioned above , you can always go single wiper conversion to keep you on the road during wet weather. will only be a visual anyways but id be fairly sure the tester wont knock you if u go with a single wiper conversion.

CiniO

nct tester wrote: »

It wouldnt be a fail dangerous.

That's what I thought.

and yes you can fail for something that passed the first day,

Are you saying by that, that OP could fail on missing wiper then?

(3) Subject to paragraph (4), in carrying out a re-test on a vehicle only those reasons in respect of items which gave rise to the refusal of the test certificate shall be tested.


(4) Where in the course of a test or a re-test, the issuing authority forms the opinion that a defect, notwithstanding that it is not specified as a reason for refusal mentioned in Schedule 3 or, in the case of a re-test was not specified in the test report, is such that the use of the vehicle in question would be a danger to the public, that defect shall be a reason for the refusal of a test certificate.

According to above, the NCT tester would have to form the opinion that this defect (missing wiper) would be "danger to public", to be able to fail him for it.

But here we go - if he formed that opinion, he would have to do "fail dangerous"

Fail dangerous


9. Where upon completion of a test the issuing authority considers that the vehicle tested if driven would be a danger to the public, the issuing authority shall affix to the vehicle a notice to that effect and containing the words “fail dangerous”.

You said yourself that missing wiper wouldn't be fail dangerous, so I can't see the way NCT tester could fail him on missing wiper during retest in the first place...

At least not if he wants for work in accordance with this legislation.

nct tester

you dont have to fail dangerous. if a car comes in and its raining heavy and drivers wiper is not working then its obviously a danger to the public.

JAMES VTI S

Dublinner wrote: »

Someone answer me here please! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055759737
Thank you!

{OFF TOPIC} - how much are you getting for every person that clicks the link ?

CiniO

nct tester wrote: »

you dont have to fail dangerous. if a car comes in and its raining heavy and drivers wiper is not working then its obviously a danger to the public.

All right. But if NCT tester considers it a "danger to the public", then I think he must "fail dangerous".

9. Where upon completion of a test the issuing authority considers that the vehicle tested if driven would be a danger to the public, the issuing authority shall affix to the vehicle a notice to that effect and containing the words “fail dangerous

And if he doesn't consider it "danger to the public" then he cant fail on retest for something that passed on original test. (according to paragraph I quoted earlier).

As least it makes sense like that.

nct tester

where are you getting this info??

CiniO

nct tester wrote: »

where are you getting this info??

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0567.html

That's AFAIK the most recent NCT legislation.

nct tester

only thing we go by is the nct manual

CiniO

nct tester wrote: »

only thing we go by is the nct manual

I understand that, but on top of that you must obey the Law I assume.

If you failed someone during retest for something that passed on original test, and didn't indicate the car as "fail dangerous" person could go to court and win the case as Law is pretty clear here.
I'm not saying anyone will do that, but that are facts.


BTW manual is also interesting lecture:
f.e

Fail Dangerous
When a vehicle is failed because of a dangerous defect (Defects that constitute a direct and immediate risk to road safety such that the vehicle should not be used on the road under any circumstances) the Vehicle Inspector should proceed as follows:
n The customer must be informed:
• Of the existence, extent and nature of the defect.
• That the owner and/or driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle who drives a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while there is a defect affecting the vehicle which he knows of or could have discovered by the exercise of ordinary care and which is such that the vehicle is, when in motion, a danger to the public shall be guilty of an offence.
• That in the opinion of NCTS the vehicle is dangerous.
• That the customer must make arrangements to have the vehicle removed from the test centre.
n A sticker stating “Failed Dangerous” should be attached
to the vehicle
n If the customer states that s/he is going to drive the vehicle:
• Advise that An Garda Síochána will be informed
n If customer drives the vehicle off the premises the incident must be reported to An Garda Síochána immediately.

Does NCT testers really do it? Call the guards when someone drives off?

I didn't find anything unfortunately about re-test in the manual

nct tester

you can inform head office and they can contact the guards IF you see them driving away.

Stheno

A-Trak wrote: »

Alfa 156. Arm type differs to both the 147 and GT, both are the only 2 Alfa owners I know.

I'm not sure if the post/pre facelift version are interchangeable either.

I'm sure there's a Fiat version that may fit, but I'd be all day driving to scrappies again.

Such is the burden of having the fine taste to be an Alfa owner

Are you in Dublin OP? My 156 is due to go to the scrapper and is parked with my mechanic, you're welcome to swipe the wiper arm once you give me a shout and I can give my mechanic fair warning?

You'll have to take it off yourself tho? Mine is a 01 model.

bazz26

Lets hope it doesn't rain on the way to the NCT centre.

A-Trak

Well I've well and truley bodged it just for the test.
Old 147 arm and it behaves like a slower brother for the passenger side. Should fail, but a visual only.

I contimplated the single wiper conversion but it looks like I'd have to take the entire wiper scuttle off to position the passenger side to cover enough of the screen.

Stheno wrote: »

You'll have to take it off yourself tho? Mine is a 01 model.

You sir, are an absolute gent.