Winter Tyres

Slaacer

Hi,
Just wondering if any of you are using winter tyres ? how do you find them in these conditions and what model are they ?

I have Falken Fk452 which are not specific winter tyres, they're all seasons and I find them alright actually but thinking of getting winter tyres for next year.

Stheno

Loads of info and discussion here

Biglad

here's 600 posts on the subject mate

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055788724

I've got 4 Hankook Icebear W300's 215/50/17 on and they do the job very well so far.

Biglad

Stheno wrote: »

Loads of info and discussion here

Beat me to it

bbam

Semperit Speed Grips, bought them half worn for €35 each balanced and fitted.. Good job and worth getting even at this stage.

PaulKK

Slaacer wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if any of you are using winter tyres ? how do you find them in these conditions and what model are they ?

I have Falken Fk452 which are not specific winter tyres, they're all seasons and I find them alright actually but thinking of getting winter tyres for next year.

I thought FK452 are summer tyres, I have them. Its the Falken 912 that are all seasons.

Slaacer

thanks for the response - didn't see the other thread so will check.

BBam I like the idea of second hand winter tyres - provide there is enough treads left...

Marlow

I've got Kumho KW27, which are M+S rated winter tyres and I wouldn't want to be without them. All-season tyres help compared to summer tyres, but you really want winter tyres in the amount of snow that has been offloaded on us this year.

/M

DeanoCeltic

Anyone investing in these? Just wondering what's the norm - buy 4 tyres and store them in the shed, switching them at the start and end of winter?

How much does it normally cost to get these changed on a car?

cheers

v240gltse

hi

I have a set of 4 for my car and have them but on a set of spare alloys I had handy. I think most buy a set of 2nd hand steelies and have the tyres put on them . One point to note is that if storing the wheels + tyres as a unit on the flat ( one on top of another ) they need to be rotated on a monthly basis to prevent side wall wear.

where are you based as I have used a mobile guy to put the tyres on the rims and he covers dublin,wicklow and Kildare area's. If interested let me know and i will pm you his contact details

hope this helps

brendan

CJhaughey

I have a set of steel rims for the winter with the winter tyres installed and balanced.
The issue with alloys is if they use road salt alloys don't like it but steelies last a lot better.
if you can get a set of wheels for yours from a scrapyard then its an easy job to get them set up and just change the wheels rather than messing with changing tyres over.
I just bought a set of Nokian All Weather + which are an allseason tyre, I have lot of faith in Nokian this will be my third set.
Hopefully it will be a mild winter but if not better to be ready.

bbam

We buy two..
Run them on the front for one year, usually 60% of thread remaining when taken off..
Stick them back on for second winter and run them out completly for as long as they last...
Back to new the following year...

We don't have spare rims, €10 to change/balance them.

We've been using winters for a few years, front only and had no problems.
Zaferia and a C4GP. When there is snow/frost 99% of people drive with caution and 2 on the front is fine. the other 1% who drive so they need 4 winter tyres are going to have trouble anyway..

Lots of people I know only run 2 wniter tyres and have no problems at all, I know the puritans, and of course those sponsored by tyre comnpanies will say that you should only ever fit 4 but we find two works just fine.

Matt Simis

bbam wrote: »

We buy two..
Run them on the front for one year, usually 60% of thread remaining when taken off..
Stick them back on for second winter and run them out completly for as long as they last...
Back to new the following year...

You must be doing colossal mileage to get only 2 seasons from a set of tyres.
You would be better off leaving the part-worn winters on the rear (where they would get minimal wear) and putting new ones on the front and always keeping 4 on. Purposely wearing one set to nothing but driving around on half Summer/half Winter setups is just completely illogical.

bbam wrote: »

Lots of people I know only run 2 wniter tyres and have no problems at all, I know the puritans, and of course those sponsored by tyre comnpanies will say that you should only ever fit 4 but we find two works just fine.

Well yes, it "works" for traction, but it obviously and logically isnt going to work for any serious or unplanned braking. In the summer, in the rain if you had Rainsports on the front and slick track tyres on the rear, what do you think would happen if you braked coming up to a bend? Same thing with Winters on driving wheels only in the snow, lots of traction and braking force on 50% of the car, nearly nothing on the other half.

There are plenty of videos online (not just from tyre companies) showing quite graphically what could happen.

CiniO

Matt Simis wrote: »

You must be doing colossal mileage to get only 2 seasons from a set of tyres.

I think it all depends where you drive.
On my fiat bravo which I use only locally on country roads, front tyres last 15k kilometres at the most (they have barely 1.6mm then) (and this are normal summer tyres which surely last longer than winter tyres).

On the other hand I've had a set of Nokian Winter tyres which I use on the other car mostly for trips to the Continent over winters, and they've already lasted 3 winter seasons and traveled over 30k kilometres, and still have 5mm of tread left on them.

Matt Simis

CiniO wrote: »

I think it all depends where you drive.
On my fiat bravo which I use only locally on country roads, front tyres last 15k kilometres at the most (they have barely 1.6mm then) (and this are normal summer tyres which surely last longer than winter tyres).

But we arent talking annual mileage, they said 2 seasons.
15k in 3mths! So 60k KM annual mileage!?

CiniO

DeanoCeltic wrote: »

Anyone investing in these? Just wondering what's the norm - buy 4 tyres and store them in the shed, switching them at the start and end of winter?

Yes, that would be the norm.

How much does it normally cost to get these changed on a car?

If you want to change them over your rims before every winter and then put summer tyres every spring, it will cost you quite a lot.
All because most poeple in Ireland don't even know what winter tyres are, and therefore garages don't really provide a service of tyre switchover.
The absolutely cheapest I found shopping around it 50 quid for 4 tyre switchover including balancing, but most garages would be closer to 80 for this job (even though it takes 30 - 45 max for one employee).
So this is going to cost you over a 100 consider 2 switchovers per annym.
It might be cheaper as other guys pointed out to buy a set of rims (steel would be cheaper to get than alloys) and put winter tyres on them only once. Then switchover can be done by yourself with just a jack.

CiniO

Matt Simis wrote: »

But we arent talking annual mileage, they said 2 seasons.
15k in 3mths! So 60k KM annual mileage!?

Even if we consider season only 3 months (say December, Januray, February) it's still two of them during two years, so 6 month.
15k in 6 months, mean average annual milage of 30k km which is 18.75k miles.
Not that much really.

Dermoth

Last couple of years has seen tyre places put offferings in place on this. I use someone in Clonakilty. I bought the winters last year and had them fitted. They store the normal tyres. Refit in March for 25€ and then store the winters until I swap again.

uberalles

Traynors in norn iron may have alloys for your car.

I agree it's better to have all your tyres on wheels and then it's usually circa 5 euro a pop to swap them.

Winter tyres perform best at 7 degree or less. Summers at 7 or higher. If you swap at the right time both types last longer.

CiniO

Dermoth wrote: »

Last couple of years has seen tyre places put offferings in place on this. I use someone in Clonakilty. I bought the winters last year and had them fitted. They store the normal tyres. Refit in March for 25€ and then store the winters until I swap again.

That must be the deal of the year.
I wish there was something like that in my area ;(

CiniO

uberalles wrote: »

Traynors in norn iron may have alloys for your car.

I agree it's better to have all your tyres on wheels and then it's usually circa 5 euro a pop to swap them.

Winter tyres perform best at 7 degree or less. Summers at 7 or higher. If you swap at the right time both types last longer.

Winter tyres are made of softer rubber compound, and therefore they will always last shorter than summer tyres.
However it's true that they will wear at increased speed in hot weather. I wouldn't trust that 7 degrees magical border, as it's more like marketing thing.

CJhaughey

uberalles wrote: »

If you swap at the right time both types last longer.

Winters last longer because they are only on for 5mths out of 12, Summer tyres are only being used for 7mths.
It works well for me anyway.
I have ordered Nokian All Weather Plus this year which have the Tread pattern from the WRG2 Winter tyres with a more Summer like compound, They are marketed as a Central European tyre which means that they aren't full Winters but can handle a bit of snow and ice.

Dan82

Guys,

See we are in for a spell of cold weather, was wondering is there any advice out there on winter tyres, we have a 00 focus, its like new, just wondering whats the update for these winter tyres in Dublin kildare area,


Thanks

JJJJNR

Agree swapping the summer for winters has made a massive difference in the amount I'm shelling out on tires, on my fourth season with my winters and still loads of thread left on them.

Cuddlesworth

CiniO wrote: »

I think it all depends where you drive.
On my fiat bravo which I use only locally on country roads, front tyres last 15k kilometres at the most (they have barely 1.6mm then) (and this are normal summer tyres which surely last longer than winter tyres).

It all depends on how you drive, the temperature and the tyre type. The better the grip, the quicker they wear. The softer material provides better grip but wears quickly. The harder material provides less grip, but wears slowly. The tyre temperature is a large factor in this process. Its a pretty basic concept overall.

Besides, with the way you drive I'm not surprised you only got 15k out of any tyres. I would say your doing well with that distance.

bbam

Matt Simis wrote: »

You must be doing colossal mileage to get only 2 seasons from a set of tyres.
You would be better off leaving the part-worn winters on the rear (where they would get minimal wear) and putting new ones on the front and always keeping 4 on. Purposely wearing one set to nothing but driving around on half Summer/half Winter setups is just completely illogical.


Well yes, it "works" for traction, but it obviously and logically isnt going to work for any serious or unplanned braking. In the summer, in the rain if you had Rainsports on the front and slick track tyres on the rear, what do you think would happen if you braked coming up to a bend? Same thing with Winters on driving wheels only in the snow, lots of traction and braking force on 50% of the car, nearly nothing on the other half.

There are plenty of videos online (not just from tyre companies) showing quite graphically what could happen.

We use "all season" tyres as standard so it's two winters on the front and two all seasons on the rear.
We find it works just fine, as do many people I know.

I appreciate the argument in having four winters but personally i think people should be looking at winters as a means to gain traction where otherwise they would be stuck. Rather than a means to drive as normal on snow and ice thinking it will protect them in an emergency.

CiniO

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

It all depends on how you drive, the temperature and the tyre type. The better the grip, the quicker they wear. The softer material provides better grip but wears quickly. The harder material provides less grip, but wears slowly. The tyre temperature is a large factor in this process. Its a pretty basic concept overall.

Of course it does depend on all you pointed out here, but it really also depends where you drive, and my earlier example perfectly shows it, as I've done twice the distance on winter tyres, and there is still half of them left. So they wear 4 times slower than my summer tyres used locally.

Type of surface makes a huge difference. On most Irish country roads, tarmac is just finished with loose chippings which they lay up as last layer. This makes road surface really harsh, which provides good grip, but wears tyres very fast.
On the continent roads are much smoother, and then tyres wear very significently slower than here, but this kind of surface doesn't provide as good grip, especially on wet roads.

To see a difference in surface it's good to walk barefeet on it.
In west of Ireland you will feel big pain, while on the Continent you will feel like walking on the flat wooden floor

Besides, with the way you drive I'm not surprised you only got 15k out of any tyres. I would say your doing well with that distance.

What's the way I drive?

CiniO

bbam wrote: »

We use "all season" tyres as standard so it's two winters on the front and two all seasons on the rear.
We find it works just fine, as do many people I know.

I appreciate the argument in having four winters but personally i think people should be looking at winters as a means to gain traction where otherwise they would be stuck. Rather than a means to drive as normal on snow and ice thinking it will protect them in an emergency.

Having that setup is not a good idea, unless you are familiar with controlling side skids.

If you ever enounter a snow on the road, your front tyres will get a grip and turn the car, while rear will break away, and you will have to counter-steer to keep a car going in line.

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

I think it all depends where you drive.
On my fiat bravo which I use only locally on country roads, front tyres last 15k kilometres at the most (they have barely 1.6mm then) (and this are normal summer tyres which surely last longer than winter tyres).

On the other hand I've had a set of Nokian Winter tyres which I use on the other car mostly for trips to the Continent over winters, and they've already lasted 3 winter seasons and traveled over 30k kilometres, and still have 5mm of tread left on them.

I live on roads just as bad as you if not worse. On our Bravos we get approx 25k miles to 30k miles from a set. I once wore out a set of Uniroyals in about 13k miles due to wrong tracking, approx 21000 kms. 80% of my journeys were on bloody awful backroads.

There must be something seriously wrong with your car, that isn't normal for those cars

CiniO

dgt wrote: »

I live on roads just as bad as you if not worse. On our Bravos we get approx 25k miles to 30k miles from a set. I once wore out a set of Uniroyals in about 13k miles due to wrong tracking, approx 21000 kms. 80% of my journeys were on bloody awful backroads.

There must be something seriously wrong with your car, that isn't normal for those cars

Trust me - it's not the car - it's the roads.
Tyres wear down that fast in here on every vehicle.
Our transit minibus can't do more that 20k kilometres on set of front tyres.
On any other car that I had here, tyres are wearing down that quick.

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

Trust me - it's not the car - it's the roads.
Tyres wear down that fast in here on every vehicle.
Our transit minibus can't do more that 20k kilometres on set of front tyres.
On any other car that I had here, tyres are wearing down that quick.

How would it compare to this road? Or this one? Which are local to me

I still believe somethings radically wrong. I used to run -3 neg camber on the coilys, corner quite hard and still not chew the tyres off

CiniO

dgt wrote: »

How would it compare to this road? Or this one? Which are local to me

I still believe somethings radically wrong. I used to run -3 neg camber on the coilys, corner quite hard and still not chew the tyres off

Indeed roads look sh1te, but I don't think it's the same type of surface as used in the West. Also they are quite narrow, so you can't go as fast as on wider roads, which obviously saves some tyres.

F.e. look at this road.
Surface looks more "greasy" and trust me - it is. These are small chippings as sharp as hell. Road is also bit wider, so you can do higher speeds. Trust me - those roads wear down your tyres really fast.

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

Indeed roads look sh1te, but I don't think it's the same type of surface as used in the West. Also they are quite narrow, so you can't go as fast as on wider roads, which obviously saves some tyres.

F.e. look at this road.
Surface looks more "greasy" and trust me - it is. These are small chippings as sharp as hell. Road is also bit wider, so you can do higher speeds. Trust me - those roads wear down your tyres really fast.

Main roads here ain't great either. We often have to deal with all sorts of debris eg stones, glass, metal deposits etc. They're much busier and get neglected

Edit: This was the old N3, before the M3 was a primary road. Great primary road eh!

Matt Simis

bbam wrote: »

We use "all season" tyres as standard so it's two winters on the front and two all seasons on the rear.
We find it works just fine, as do many people I know.

I appreciate the argument in having four winters but personally i think people should be looking at winters as a means to gain traction where otherwise they would be stuck. Rather than a means to drive as normal on snow and ice thinking it will protect them in an emergency.

Ah right, I see. Id agree All Seasons plus Winters is a considerable step from Summers! Have you considered just solely using some really good All Seasons that work well in the Snow/Ice (there are some out there)?

The lips

take a read of this

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056739529

keep an eye on done deal you might get a set fairly right

bbam

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ah right, I see. Id agree All Seasons plus Winters is a considerable step from Summers! Have you considered just solely using some really good All Seasons that work well in the Snow/Ice (there are some out there)?

No.
We live down a long lane that accumulates snow quickly so the winters make a huge difference.
This really a decent setup and I've encountered no problems at all. I know others who use the same setup with no problems at all

galwaybabe

Probably a blonde question here but would this stuff work instead of getting winter tyres?
http://www.tyrearmour.ie/

JoeySully

galwaybabe wrote: »

Probably a blonde question here but would this stuff work instead of getting winter tyres?
http://www.tyrearmour.ie/

Are you joking or are you just trying to promote that company ?

galwaybabe

JoeySully wrote: »

Are you joking or are you just trying to promote that company ?

I guess it was a really blonde question then

JoeySully

perhaps you should watch the information video

it does noting for winter driving.

TestTransmission

galwaybabe wrote: »

I guess it was a really blonde question then

It kinda was..

galwaybabe

TestTransmission wrote: »

It kinda was..

:)Wouldn't be the first time I've asked one. All irrelevant now anyways, I just got back from mechanic who has more or less condemned the poor oul van, something to do with an impossible welding job. Boo.

Joey99

Having changed from an Audi A6 (which ran faultlessly on summer tyres for the past 3 winters) to a BMW 520d recently I decided I wanted to get a set of winter tyres. I made some really stupid mistakes along the way so wanted to share with the group in case I can help someone else.

My starting point was BMW main dealer. They offer a really neat service that takes care of everything but it costs €2,000 so it was out of my budget.

My car is running 225/50R17 run flat tyres on BMW alloys. I'm not mad keen on the run flats so I decided to go with regular tyres. I understand that going to a slightly narrower fitment is good for winter (narrower contact patch so pushes through snow and ice more readily). I checked the sizes on http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html and settled on 205/60R16. BMW Ireland don't offer any information on tyre sizes other than 17" alloys on their site but the German site does so I knew it was possible.

Ordered a mid-level set of Falkens from eiretyres at a knockdown price of €386 for five. Delivered on time and without a hitch. Note: because of the weight of my car I had to get reinforced tyres in order for them to carry the weight and not void my insurance. You could easily miss this.

That's where I started to get into difficulty. I naively thought that because the PCD measurements were the same (5x120) a set of 16" alloys from a 3 Series would fit my car. Bargain at €120 for four used alloys in good condition! Wrong.

Cue the dreaded call from Atlas in Drumcondra (€40 fitment and €40 storage for the season - that seems fair to me for Dublin prices and I use them a lot so I trust them and they are local so convenient) to say that they had fitted the tyres to the allows, fitted the rears to the car but the fronts wouldn't get past the 5 series front brake calipers.

BMW were no use to me at any stage, just got half-hearted and incomplete information whether online or over the phone to my dealership. That's disappointing but I don't really blame them all that much as I'm looking for information and not looking to make a purchase and they're in business to try and sell their winter tyre packages.

I got some great help from the guys at http://wheelsnthings.com/ and a set of black steelies duly ordered (not cheap at £340 delivered) but the information they were able to give me online and over the phone and the courier delivery to Dublin for £20 (not advertised on their website or their ebay site) were invaluable to me.

Steelies are now on their way (I'm fine with that as I'm happy with the utilitarian look for the winter - I had actually wanted steel originally) and should be fitted by the end of the week. I'll update with any further thoughts and if anyone wants to buy a set of 3 series alloy wheels (Style 156) you know where to reach me.

I couldn't find an Irish stockist for the KFZ steel wheels I have coming in so if anyone knows of one that would be helpful. I'd prefer to buy Irish where possible. KFZ seems to specialise in steel wheels and seem to make a wheel for virtually any type of fitment.

Update: KFZ in Austria came back to me. They don't have an Irish wholesaler (could be an opening there for someone in the industry) but their UK distributor is www.wheelwright.co.uk but the search function on their website doesn't seem to be working properly so I couldn't check comparative pricing against www.wheelsnthings.com referred to above.