Thhe North to be given our corp tax rate by Uk to compete with us ...thanks SF

poeticseraphim

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-to-decide-on-devolving-corporation-tax-to-northern-ireland-8216980.html


Mc Guinness and the assembly want tax setting poers devolved and they look to be getting it.

But it mans that taking control of tax woould mean they lose some funding (the assembly)

Not good for the south at all. So what does SF say about taking potential jobs ut of the south??

Also about their tax policies..they have always been high taxation no??

So ....why should anyone vote for a party(why would you vote for them anyway) that ill try to lure jobs away from the south?? Surely we want them to lure jobs away from ANYWHERE ELSE!!!

I hope the media crucifies SF for this.


"In Northern Ireland we have won the economic argument and all parties agree that lowering corporation tax will create jobs, jobs and more jobs."

ardmacha

SF is an all-Ireland party who regard one Irish job as good as another. You can hardly crucify them for actually behaving correctly.

This is very welcome, if it is true, not least if it means that SF take an interest in real economics for a change.

average_runner

ardmacha wrote: »

SF is an all-Ireland party who regard one Irish job as good as another. You can hardly crucify them for actually behaving correctly.

This is very welcome, if it is true, not least if it means that SF take an interest in real economics for a change.

Yes a all Ireland party and would impose the same austerity cuts in the south that they imposed in the north.

ardmacha

Yes a all Ireland party and would impose the same austerity cuts in the south that they imposed in the north.

or see the same need for property taxes in all counties, perhaps?

Leiva

Masterplan

golden lane

poeticseraphim wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-to-decide-on-devolving-corporation-tax-to-northern-ireland-8216980.html


Mc Guinness and the assembly want tax setting poers devolved and they look to be getting it.

But it mans that taking control of tax woould mean they lose some funding (the assembly)

Not good for the south at all. So what does SF say about taking potential jobs ut of the south??

Also about their tax policies..they have always been high taxation no??

So ....why should anyone vote for a party(why would you vote for them anyway) that ill try to lure jobs away from the south?? Surely we want them to lure jobs away from ANYWHERE ELSE!!!

I hope the media crucifies SF for this.


"In Northern Ireland we have won the economic argument and all parties agree that lowering corporation tax will create jobs, jobs and more jobs."

the south will be pleased if that happewns.....at last, a level playing field.....

latenia

Ain't gonna happen. There's no way Cameron's party or electoral base will agree to an already heavily subsidised region undermining the tax system.

delad

latenia wrote: »

Ain't gonna happen. There's no way Cameron's party or electoral base will agree to an already heavily subsidised region undermining the tax system.

the only reason they are heavily subsidised is because of their tax rate being the same as Britains

Icepick

delad wrote: »

the only reason they are heavily subsidised is because of their tax rate being the same as Britains

:P

Pete_Cavan

latenia wrote: »

Ain't gonna happen. There's no way Cameron's party or electoral base will agree to an already heavily subsidised region undermining the tax system.

I am sure the quid pro quo for devolving tax-setting powers will be the removal of some subsidies, in which case the North will most likely end up worst off in the long term. They may be able to compete with us on corporation tax rate but they will fall behind in terms of infrastructure.

lmimmfn

it will shaft the republic in terms of competition but i for one would be the first to head north for an IT job if it brings the multinationals in( as it should, as being in the north/UK would be far more advantageous to multinationals than being in the republic, excluding the euro factor of course ).

Colour me with hopelessness with our PS/Sami state/HSE costs and how bad things are getting here, but id love the opportunity to work in the north, if nothing but to get away from the madness.

[Jackass]

SF basically just talk a load of sh*te and say the opposite to whatever the Government of the day is doing, safe in the knowledge that they'll never be in Government and need to back track, and in the hopes they'll get one or two "I told you so" moments.

Everything from their economic policy to their criminal members to their attempts to deny heavy IRA involvement is a joke.

As said, they are so anti-austerity and tax the rich in the south and then pro-austerity and give the big corporations tax breaks in the north. Hypocritical muppets, they haven't a clue and God help us if they ever get into power as a junior coalition partner (and is there anyone FF wouldn't go into Government with just to have power? That's the future danger..)

robp

lmimmfn wrote: »

it will shaft the republic in terms of competition but i for one would be the first to head north for an IT job if it brings the multinationals in( as it should, as being in the north/UK would be far more advantageous to multinationals than being in the republic, excluding the euro factor of course ).

Just out of interest why do you think think the North is superior for foreign investment? I can see labour being cheaper but not massively cheaper. Not sure about electricity.

If it encourages companies in England etc to move to the north it would only be a good thing in my opinion.

smellslikeshoes

We are too closely connected for us not to want a strong North. The possibility of companies from Britain moving their operations to the north would only be a good thing for the Island as whole.

Monty Burnz

This is really odd: even though NI survives on a massive subvention from the British (read: Southern English) taxpayer, they will further cut the tax rates of companies based there? That just means that the gulf in living standards between NI and ROI will grow, and further cement partition. The people in NI would be crazy to give up their subsidised social services and public sector jobs + low tax businesses.

Good move, SF.

everdead.ie

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This is really odd: even though NI survives on a massive subvention from the British (read: Southern English) taxpayer, they will further cut the tax rates of companies based there? That just means that the gulf in living standards between NI and ROI will grow, and further cement partition. The people in NI would be crazy to give up their subsidised social services and public sector jobs + low tax businesses.

Good move, SF.

I suppose it depends on the amount of subsidy given up by the north, I am glad that this has happened the higher employment generally the lower strife in an area, however there could be a massive cut in the civil service if there is a large subsidy cut meaning more people on the dole short term.

smellslikeshoes

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This is really odd: even though NI survives on a massive subvention from the British (read: Southern English) taxpayer, they will further cut the tax rates of companies based there? That just means that the gulf in living standards between NI and ROI will grow, and further cement partition. The people in NI would be crazy to give up their subsidised social services and public sector jobs + low tax businesses.

Good move, SF.

I disagree completely. The aim of lowering the tax rate is to bring multinational investment and jobs to NI so they will hopefully be able to at some stage stand on their own two feet financially. Without wanting to get too far into the partition debate, abolishing it is something that will never happen as long as NI have to rely on handouts from London.

Monty Burnz

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I disagree completely. The aim of lowering the tax rate is to bring multinational investment and jobs to NI so they will hopefully be able to at some stage stand on their own two feet financially. Without wanting to get too far into the partition debate, abolishing it is something that will never happen as long as NI have to rely on handouts from London.

But if this works, the people in NI will have loads of jobs with multi-nationals and an excellent system of subsidised public services while in the UK. Or they can give all that up and join up with a bankrupt ROI with rubbish public services (I'm thinking about a decade ahead here). Seeing as most people of both communities prefer to be part of the UK even without this huge disparity, I think this would really put the final nail in the unity coffin.

Happyman42

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But if this works, the people in NI will have loads of jobs with multi-nationals and an excellent system of subsidised public services while in the UK. Or they can give all that up and join up with a bankrupt ROI with rubbish public services (I'm thinking about a decade ahead here). Seeing as most people of both communities prefer to be part of the UK even without this huge disparity, I think this would really put the final nail in the unity coffin.

Maybe SF believe it's southerners who need to have the carrot dangled in front of them. Demographics will do it in the North anyway and the economic outlook will change in the south, that's inevitable. Perhaps there are those who won't be able to resist a wealthy wee north, self interested, greedy voters in the south? Who would have thought?

bilston

Happyman42 wrote: »

Maybe SF believe it's southerners who need to have the carrot dangled in front of them. Demographics will do it in the North anyway and the economic outlook will change in the south, that's inevitable. Perhaps there are those who won't be able to resist a wealthy wee north, self interested, greedy voters in the south? Who would have thought?

But then if people from the South move to "a wealthy wee north" they won't want to change the status of the "wealthy wee north" either!

Monty Burnz

Happyman42 wrote: »

Demographics will do it in the North anyway

I think this is a total myth. Most Catholics in NI appear to be happy to stay in the UK. The notion that every Catholic wants a united Ireland seems to be a loooong way off base.

Happyman42

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think this is a total myth. Most Catholics in NI appear to be happy to stay in the UK. The notion that every Catholic wants a united Ireland seems to be a loooong way off base.

SF seem to want a level playing pitch. If they achieve powersharing in the south (a distinct possibility) there is no telling what debate they might instigate. I have always said that the British will be their allies in any debate that may arise over unity because I think they have withdrawn already and I think the Unionists know that too in their heart of hearts. They (the British) just want to do it without the mess they made withdrawing from every colony they ever had. The incentives (or rather what they will remove) from the British side will be the ultimate decider imo. It will subtly become more sensible economically to be part of a United Ireland, it has always made more sense culturally.

smellslikeshoes

I think if the partition was ever really going to be taken away we would have to be close enough as entities that getting rid of it wasn't going to end up as some big important day both financially and politically.
It wouldn't be a case of "a wee wealthy north" because we would be linked so closely financially already that there won't be any real differences. This is of course something that could only possibly happen in the very long term, ROI would have to be long out of the current mess.

frankosw

lmimmfn wrote: »

it will shaft the republic in terms of competition but i for one would be the first to head north for an IT job if it brings the multinationals in( as it should, as being in the north/UK would be far more advantageous to multinationals than being in the republic, excluding the euro factor of course ).

Colour me with hopelessness with our PS/Sami state/HSE costs and how bad things are getting here, but id love the opportunity to work in the north, if nothing but to get away from the madness.

Funny how its always people in It who curse the PS and are obsessed with attracting multinationals as oppsed to supporting indiginous industry.

The PS branch that i work in employs over 600 private sector companies,including a huge number connected with IT.

[Jackass]

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This is really odd: even though NI survives on a massive subvention from the British (read: Southern English) taxpayer, they will further cut the tax rates of companies based there? That just means that the gulf in living standards between NI and ROI will grow, and further cement partition. The people in NI would be crazy to give up their subsidised social services and public sector jobs + low tax businesses.

Good move, SF.

Whilst your logic is solid, I think the SF agenda in the north has shifted to trying to become a mainstream party, i.e. attract the votes of unionist voters. I suppose it could be a ploy, and I can't see their attempts to get unionists voting for the IRA as very feasable, but that's the move they're making.

Whilst they've made inroads in the South, is more based on their ideology than any particular policy matters, which unfortunately wont wash up north, but realisticly, they don't have a clue what they're doing. A while ago, as an Economic student (and by no means expert), I picked apart their entire Economic policy on this forum, which seemed to get general agreement. If a student can point out massive flaws in just about all of their policies, then the really lack the expertise to be a part of any functioning Government.

charlemont

Fair play to them, The North deserves it, Why shouldn't they have the same rate as us...

astrofool

Don't they want to significantly raise the corporation rate in the south?

[Jackass]

charlemont wrote: »

Fair play to them, The North deserves it, Why shouldn't they have the same rate as us...

True, but I think the issue at hand is that SF are advocating a change in the North that not only will damage the Economy of the south, but also is a complete contradiction of their policies in the Dail, i.e. Tax the rich and big corporations in the south, whilst giving the same people a massive tax cut in the North. It highlights their other policy contradictions such as encouraging austerity in the North, whilst saying austerity doesn't work in the South and slating the Government for it. Essentially, whilst it is good for the North and fair play to them, it's ironic how Sin Fein are making fools of themselves in the process, they don't know whether they're coming or going and are just going with the flow, without any real policy or constructive input...

astrofool wrote: »

Don't they want to significantly raise the corporation rate in the south?

Exactly the point.

ardmacha

But if this works, the people in NI will have loads of jobs with multi-nationals and an excellent system of subsidised public services while in the UK. Or they can give all that up and join up with a bankrupt ROI with rubbish public services (I'm thinking about a decade ahead here). Seeing as most people of both communities prefer to be part of the UK even without this huge disparity, I think this would really put the final nail in the unity coffin.

This is complete nonsense. The UK public finances are only marginally better than in the Republic and NI cannot rely on getting vast public expenditure for ever, especially in the context of any rebalancing of UK arrangements owing to great autonomy in Scotland.

As for people from both communities preferring to be in UK, one continues to vote for nationalist parties in order for those parties to make the necessary arrangement to ensure a United Ireland by agreement.

Terrontress

ardmacha wrote: »

As for people from both communities preferring to be in UK, one continues to vote for nationalist parties in order for those parties to make the necessary arrangement to ensure a United Ireland by agreement.

Voter engagement is very low though. A referendum would not follow the split in nationalist / unionist parties currently seen at the polls.

ardmacha

A referendum would not follow the split in nationalist / unionist parties currently seen at the polls.

A current referendum would not follow the split in nationalist / unionist parties currently seen at the polls because the nationalist parties have not yet delivered the required conditions. The corporation tax is a step in the right direction as it is a step directed at NI funding itself.

_Kaiser_

While I can certainly see why ROI voters would want to get a "strong wee North" onboard, I really think ye are all overplaying the United Ireland card here.

Selfish economic reasons aside, and leaving out the tired old "dey tuk our country" argument (it was after all merely acceptable statecraft of the day - just as how most of western Europe was out plundering North/South America and Africa too - and let's not forget the Catholics weren't angels either), why on earth would any sane voter in NI want to join the South?

Never mind our current economic woes, why would ANYONE want to join our gombeen man, parochial, corrupt little backwater where our "leaders" spend more time grandstanding for the media (when they're not infighting that is) and living it up at our expense than running the country in the best interests of its people (y'know, the "peasants" who they have to doorstep every few years and spin another yarn to), while the rest of us vary between trying to outdo one another to complaining what someone else might be getting away with - forget the GAA, that is our national sport!

Just as charity begins at home, we have a lot of growing up to do as a country and a people before we think we can take on responsibility for another country (which like it or not, is what is being talked about here). Look at the mess we've made of our "Republic" (in name only really) in not even 100 years and then tell me we're ready to look after another one too!

n97 mini

ardmacha wrote: »

SF is an all-Ireland party who regard one Irish job as good as another. You can hardly crucify them for actually behaving correctly.

Tax paid in the North goes into the British economy and does not help the Irish economy one iota. Personally, as someone who lives south of the border, I'd much prefer jobs/taxes in the Irish economy.

In addition, the NI economy is subsidised by London to the tune of around two thirds of the total cost. Long make it continue. Dublin would not be able to sustain that level of handouts. Dublin can't even afford the level of handouts required to sustain Donegal, never mind the 6 counties.

ardmacha wrote: »

This is very welcome, if it is true, not least if it means that SF take an interest in real economics for a change.

No it doesn't. It means SF is posturing, as usual.

Happyman42

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

While I can certainly see why ROI voters would want to get a "strong wee North" onboard, I really think ye are all overplaying the United Ireland card here.

Selfish economic reasons aside, and leaving out the tired old "dey tuk our country" argument (it was after all merely acceptable statecraft of the day - just as how most of western Europe was out plundering North/South America and Africa too - and let's not forget the Catholics weren't angels either), why on earth would any sane voter in NI want to join the South?

Never mind our current economic woes, why would ANYONE want to join our gombeen man, parochial, corrupt little backwater where our "leaders" spend more time grandstanding for the media (when they're not infighting that is) and living it up at our expense than running the country in the best interests of its people (y'know, the "peasants" who they have to doorstep every few years and spin another yarn to), while the rest of us vary between trying to outdo one another to complaining what someone else might be getting away with - forget the GAA, that is our national sport!

Just as charity begins at home, we have a lot of growing up to do as a country and a people before we think we can take on responsibility for another country (which like it or not, is what is being talked about here). Look at the mess we've made of our "Republic" (in name only really) in not even 100 years and then tell me we're ready to look after another one too!

If you are Irish, then there is not much I can do for your self loathing, but I can assure you we are pretty similar to most countries in western Europe in terms of our political class and the level of gombeenism and corruption.
The BBC are being exposed at the minute for exactly the same kind of self protecting and self aggrandising you think is typical of 'us'. The British government has been exposed countless times as being a similar pit of self interested and money motivated representatives. It's must be because they talk proper that you can't see that.
The North has never stood on it's own two feet, and it will always need subsidy. Subsidy that will diminish, the centre cannot hold. It's best shot at a future is to be part of an administration that runs all of the island. Culturally right, economically right and socially right.

lmimmfn

robp wrote: »

Just out of interest why do you think think the North is superior for foreign investment? I can see labour being cheaper but not massively cheaper. Not sure about electricity.

If it encourages companies in England etc to move to the north it would only be a good thing in my opinion.

the fact that we have several more years( at least 10 crap years from what i can see ) of austerity coupled with the fact that the main items of inflation for business are government driven, i.e. electricity/gas, theres also the rates issue, expected increases to employer prsi etc.. Also when youre in control of your own currency as the UK is you can devalue it to make labour more competitive.

frankosw wrote: »

Funny how its always people in It who curse the PS and are obsessed with attracting multinationals as oppsed to supporting indiginous industry.

The PS branch that i work in employs over 600 private sector companies,including a huge number connected with IT.

Havnt got a clue what youre on about, my point was were spending more than we earn, we in the private sector are the earners, you in the public sector are what the governmant spends on. You cost 8 billion per year more than we earn for you, so whats the problem with my post?

Solair

It would be competition on corporation tax grounds, but the Republic still has a hell of a lot going for it, despite the fiscal issues at the moment, which seem to be having zero impact on foreign investment. In fact, they've probably improved the country's competitive position as it was becoming too expensive.
Attracting inward investment and export growth have been some of the really remarkable positives in the Irish economy during this crisis. It's in a very different place to Greece, Spain, Portugal etc in that respect.

I think people on here are vastly over-estimating the risk that companies would just up and move to Northern Ireland. There would be really no advantage to them doing that at all.

The Republic has a longer track record of being a good destination for these companies. It's committed and in control of its own policies to keep them coming and it is highly politically stable. Northern Ireland on the other hand would have a corporation tax regime that could be at the whim of London and it's rather politically unstable with a history of recent extreme violence. That unfortunately does detract from its attractiveness to investment. It also tends to make it more difficult to convince key staff to move there. That could be senior execs, or even language experts or IT experts coming in from elsewhere in Europe. Unfortunately, the violence of the past (and present) tends to really badly tarnish NI's image abroad. Thats not something I take any glee from, I think it's really sad and terribly undermining for NI's economy.

The Republic's membership of the Euro is still something that big business likes. The reason being that it removes currency fluctuations when dealing with EU markets. Despite the crisis, it's one of the world's 2 biggest currencies. Sterling's rather prone to inflation and devaluation at times.

Infrastructurally, Dublin Airport is a huge advantage to the greater Dublin area as it's by far and away the best connected airport in Ireland.
In terms of passenger numbers in Britain and Ireland it's in the top 4 airports.

Telecommunications connectivity in the Republic is also excellent for large companies. (It may suck for people out in the sticks on eirocm DSL, but that's largely irrelevant to this stuff). It hosts major data centres including Google and Microsoft's major EU centres processing vast amounts of data.
Belfast actually has less tier-1 interconnectivity at this stage. Although, on average local access broadband in NI is probably better, but that's really irrelevant to large companies as they don't use DSL, they use huge fibre trunks.

Electricity - Both areas suffer from the same issue in this regard. The NI/ROI market is effectively merged anyway these days for commercial users and prices are broadly similar. There's actually now bigger interconnection capacity into the Republic than NI from Britain too and a lot more planned in the near future. But, power's certainly not going to decide which side of the boarder you go as the issues are almost identical.

The IFSC has huge advantages in terms of legislation and it's also just a large financial hub.

The Republic also has clusters of R&D that are much bigger than NI.

The main thing is that it has a long track record with pretty much all the global pharma / biopharma companies (mostly clustered around Cork)

Almost all the global IT brands from Microsoft, to Intel, to Apple... and the list goes on and on..

Just because NI drops its corporation tax would absolutely not mean any major change to that. It's one factor in a whole array of reasons that companies locate in the Republic. It's attracted the 2nd highest level of FDI after Singapore in 2011! So, it's clearly doing something right.

It would be far more worrying for places like Scotland and the North of England, which is why I don't think it will happen. As it would result in UK companies relocating there or relocating accounting to there...

frankosw

lmimmfn wrote: »

Havnt got a clue what youre on about, my point was were spending more than we earn, we in the private sector are the earners, you in the public sector are what the governmant spends on. You cost 8 billion per year more than we earn for you, so whats the problem with my post?

No..the government spends the money on public services..we dont get paid to do nothing.

lmimmfn wrote: »

You cost 8 billion per year more than we earn for you, so whats the problem with my post?

Because the Private Sector is not paying its way...cash in hand,self-employed and people below the PAYE threshold are costing the state in lost revenue and thats without even looking at the mess caused by developers,construction and banking industries in the last few years.


What about privately-owned hotels being payed for by the Govt via recapitilisation of the banks?

Where's teh money Sean Dunne owes the state? How much would that be?

8 billion extra a year? No problem if everybody is forced to become tax compliant.

everdead.ie

frankosw wrote: »

No..the government spends the money on public services..we dont get paid to do nothing.



Because the Private Sector is not paying its way...cash in hand,self-employed and people below the PAYE threshold are costing the state in lost revenue and thats without even looking at the mess caused by developers,construction and banking industries in the last few years.


What about privately-owned hotels being payed for by the Govt via recapitilisation of the banks?

Where's teh money Sean Dunne owes the state? How much would that be?

8 billion extra a year? No problem if everybody is forced to become tax compliant.

Just highlighted self-employed people, I'm just wondering how they are costing the economy would you prefer they were unemployed and made those they were employing unemployed they have no dole entitlements either so at least they wouldn't increase the Social welfare spend too much.

I'm not self employed by the way, I 100% agree that people should never work for cash in hand (although teachers do it ex. grinds and I'm sure others in the public service have ways of working cash in hand hardly exclusive to the private sector).

frankosw

everdead.ie wrote: »

I'm not self employed by the way, I 100% agree that people should never work for cash in hand (although teachers do it ex. grinds and I'm sure others in the public service have ways of working cash in hand hardly exclusive to the private sector).

Somebody the other day said that people who workin revenue probably give tax advice as a nixer and charge for it...i laughed.

Perhaps another example of Public Sector staff working cash in hand would be....anybody got any ideas?

everdead.ie

frankosw wrote: »

Somebody the other day said that people who workin revenue probably give tax advice as a nixer and charge for it...i laughed.

Perhaps another example of Public Sector staff working cash in hand would be....anybody got any ideas?

I'm glad that this is what you pointed out and ignored the rest of the post............
But I don't see why public servants are immune from doing nixers.
People get paid to fix cars cash in hand, how about revenue accountants doing accounts for a student so they can get a grant.
Gaurds doing security work(don't know if this still happens used to be really common)

Now can you answer my question re self employed why are they costing the economy?

Ellis Dee

There are times when I am close to despair as I witness falling standards all around me!:rolleyes:

Even SF-bashing has sunk to a new low if the pathetic arguments in the OP are anything to go by.:eek:

Despite what some unreconstructed Unionists and their fellow-travellers both in the Six Counties and here in the Twenty-Six would like to believe, SF is not a party devoted entirely to causing misery for people.:D

They are in government in Belfast and - shock horror! - have come up with what could quite possibly prove to be a good idea to help attract FDI to the North. That means enhancing the attractiveness of the place by making its economy more competitive - not just relative to the Republic, but actually relative to all other competitor countries. Members of other parties, who once upon a time found the idea of SF in government beyond abhorrent, now actually agree with them on the corporate tax idea. Prosperity is not a zero-sum game, and a booming North would probably be good for us as well.:)

As a certain president once said to me: "Even when it's the wrong person who says the right thing, it's still the right thing."

In a global world we all have to compete, so let's see how successful Sinn Fein eventually is in getting the Northern economy to flourish (with help from the Unionists, of course).

Then maybe we could consider giving them a crack at getting the Republic's economy into better shape than it is, or is likely to be as long as the same old Fianna Gael faces and their Labour henchmen remain in power.:D:D

BFDCH.

frankosw wrote: »

Somebody the other day said that people who workin revenue probably give tax advice as a nixer and charge for it...i laughed.

Perhaps another example of Public Sector staff working cash in hand would be....anybody got any ideas?

get back to work, we're not paying you to post smart answers on boards

frankosw

everdead.ie wrote: »

Gaurds doing security work(don't know if this still happens used to be really common)

Guards dont do security work..never heard of it happening either.

everdead.ie

frankosw wrote: »

Guards dont do security work..never heard of it happening either.

er I have I've seen it.

Voltex

TBH I think this debate is rather acedemic, because if Im right there are some obscure EU rules that do not allow countries to vary Corporate Tax rates regionally...so its either all the UK or nothing at all!

[Jackass]

Possibly, but I'm not convinced. The U.K. is an extremely complex example, it's kind of like a quasi-federal state, but it isn't exactly regional tax rates, there has been a devolution of power and a handing over of a certain amount of soverign power and self-Governance.

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but if I was a betting man, I think Northern Ireland could introduce the same tax rate as the Republic and keep it that way. Although, if there's anything that will prick the ears of Brussels, Paris and Berlin, it will be another country going for the low corporate tax rate, as that really hasn't set well with the Economic advantages we've gotten from it. :pac:

Mr.Wemmick

Happyman42 wrote: »

If you are Irish, then there is not much I can do for your self loathing, but I can assure you we are pretty similar to most countries in western Europe in terms of our political class and the level of gombeenism and corruption.
The BBC are being exposed at the minute for exactly the same kind of self protecting and self aggrandising you think is typical of 'us'. The British government has been exposed countless times as being a similar pit of self interested and money motivated representatives. It's must be because they talk proper that you can't see that.
The North has never stood on it's own two feet, and it will always need subsidy. Subsidy that will diminish, the centre cannot hold. It's best shot at a future is to be part of an administration that runs all of the island. Culturally right, economically right and socially right.

I entirely agree with this. Having recently lived in a large Northern Ireland University town for two years, I really felt that there is a strong sense of a sell-by-date to NI, and where I lived in particular.
The way in which, everything is heavily subsidised - and the strong/arrogant expectation that they will continue to be - the lack of skills and needless ignorance in the work place; social and work based xenophobia, weakening educational standards; lack of sound business development over the good years all add up to fact that NI is out of its depth when it comes to having any real chance of attracting investment on a large scale. Ireland has its huge troubles yes, and will continue to, but the skills are here as is the infrastructure for many companies and industry.

I am in agreement with Solair -- during in the Irish boom years, lots of good work was done which is evident now by the continued good growth and export. Even if we have failed, on many levels, standing on our own two feet, we are still here, fighting on.. and don't we look more attractive from the outside looking in, considering our woes.
I for one, am happier and more hopeful living in Dublin, even if i have to pay more for everything.. that living in the false economic set-up that is NI which will eventually give way.

I do not, however, agree with your comparison of european countries having the same amount of corruption as Ireland. The lack of accountability and transparency is second to none here - living and having had experience of how some european countries are run, there are big differences.

The BBC is a good anology to make (not the UK) because it was/is a closed shop, no-one was allowed to look into it too carefully, they could more or less run the show what ever way they saw fit without outsider intrusion - very similar to the closed shop attitude running riot in irish public life with Politicians, TDs HSE, Education, etc. There is still a strong attitude here that the electorate/tax payers have no right to get answers to questions.. slowly changing but it's been like that for decades, starkly more visible now as we are being stripped down by austerity.

The UK is corrupt too but there is more transparency/accountability - they're screwed when they get caught.
Here, they disappear for a wee-while, then pop up again in another prestigious public position, and off they go again.. causing economic havoc at every turn.

Happyman42

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

The UK is corrupt too but there is more transparency/accountability - they're screwed when they get caught.
Here, they disappear for a wee-while, then pop up again in another prestigious public position, and off they go again.. causing economic havoc at every turn.

Still generally takes a newspaper or investigative journalist to expose corruption there, despite the alleged transparency.
I just think it's a different type of corruption but corruption all the same.
Look at Italy, Greece etc and you will see much deeper levels of corruption than you see here. We are in the halfpenny place in comparision.

poeticseraphim

Irish companies will move to the north to get out of austerity.

woodoo

I think it would be bad for this country. The north can afford to pay lower wages as people up there don't have to pay for healthcare or school books and their prices of everyday goods is cheaper. If they had a low corp tax if would be bad for us in the south imo.

Defiler Of The Coffin

lmimmfn wrote: »

it will shaft the republic in terms of competition but i for one would be the first to head north for an IT job if it brings the multinationals in( as it should, as being in the north/UK would be far more advantageous to multinationals than being in the republic, excluding the euro factor of course ).

Nothing to stop you moving North if you have your heart set on it, there's no shortage of IT jobs in Belfast. Just hope your willing to accept lower wages and living standards (before people jump all over me I work in Belfast)