Do multiple shorter runs on the same day equate to one long?

Freiheit

Going on my 2nd 2 and a half mile run today,I'm wondering in terms of marathon/half marathon preparation,how does this compare with one 5 miler? Or is there any relationship?.

40 16' for 8k at ladies mini marathon last weekend,also ran 2 miles home and walked 2 miles to the event,any cumulative benefit?.

Thanks
Karen

ecoli

This is a good question.

If you try to make a direct comparison of say the effects of a 5 miler compared to 2*2.5 miles you will see yourself get more benefit from the longer however there is a trade off as you increase the distance you also increase the injury risk through over use. Effectively you have to build the body up to be able to handle the mileage.

This is a question which goes right up the ladder when people start considering doubles vs singles. Effectively it would be better to do all your runs as singles but this would require more recovery in order to prevent injury which is where the trade off occurs. This is why very few elites run 100 mpw in singles (simply because there are very few who have been able to handle it)

If you aiming to build your mileage run often with short runs and build from there. IMO though if you are looking to half marathon/marathon distance look to long term future and build slowly because running a marathon off that low mileage though achieveable will create a whole lot of injury risks.

You are right with the notion of cumulative affect though and this is an important factor the miles run 2 years ago will stand to you if you keep consistent. Time off means you will lose fitness and then spend months when you are starting back getting to that point. Also you will find that the greater aerobic base the quicker you will return to fitness after time off.

Also running after as a "cool down" is a good idea this aims to increase blood flow to speed up recovery and aid the restoration of the PH balance within the blood

walshb

Although similar I would imagine a difference in heart rate, stamina and overall muscle and body tiredness. If you are doing 2.5 and then taking a rest and doing 2.5, then I think it's fair to assume that it's maybe easier than a full 5 miler. For marathon purposes I would think a runner would need plenty of long runs. Just like a boxer going 4/6/8/10 and 12 rds. The sparring levels are increased as the fight distance increases.

Doing what you are doing may be of benefit, but you cannot know what a 5 miler will feel like until you do it. The 2 X 2.5 miles with a break in between may come close, but you could be surprised when you try the full 5 miler. Surprised in the negative sense.

RedB

Freiheit wrote: »

Going on my 2nd 2 and a half mile run today,I'm wondering in terms of marathon/half marathon preparation,how does this compare with one 5 miler? Or is there any relationship?.

40 16' for 8k at ladies mini marathon last weekend,also ran 2 miles home and walked 2 miles to the event,any cumulative benefit?.

Thanks
Karen

The more the merrier

If you're trying to run further then you'll need to be increasing the longer runs gradually so that you're able to keep going on tired legs. You won't quite get that effect if you split your run in two but its still better than just doing one shorter run.

Well done on the mini-marathon. There's definitely a cumulative benefit for the extra 2M each way. It all goes in the bank

Krusty_Clown

From a more pragmatic perspective, for the effort required in putting on gear, warming up, running, warming-down, stretching, showering whatever, it is hardly worth the trouble of splitting a 5 mile run into two segments. If I recall correctly, Jack Daniels suggested that you should really only consider doing doubles if you are running 50+mpw (that's 80kms for the triathletes), and (given the practicalities) a run should be an hour in duration, before you consider splitting it (I'm paraphrasing and changing the gist of his point a little).

If however it's a 2.5 mile run to work and a 2.5 mile run home, it's definitely worthwhile. I just wouldn't consider it the equivalent of a 5 mile training run.

Larry Brent

From Steve Magness in Running Times http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=21454&PageNum=1 and more here http://www.scienceofrunning.com/search/label/Doubles



The take-away message is that if you are training to improve performance, there is a time to run once, twice and even possibly three times per day. It all depends on the purpose of the run: If the purpose is to build endurance, such as during a base phase, you want to make sure to include at least one longer run per day. It’s OK to do doubles to build mileage, but these should be completed in an unbalanced way, such as a 60-minute run in the morning followed by a 25-minute run in the evening. The longer run serves as the primary stimulus to increase overall endurance.

When you enter the phase of training to prepare for a specific race, consider adding doubles. This can be done in one of two ways. To enhance recovery, add split doubles where you take the total mileage for the day, cut it in half, and split it between a morning and afternoon run. In splitting the runs pretty evenly, you maximize recovery. The other option is to use doubles, or even triples, to enhance the training effect of the primary workout. To accomplish this, include doubles with very little rest between the two runs. Have the first run be an easy, moderate length (20–50 minutes) and follow that up an hour or two later with a more intense fartlek or tempo session. Lastly, if you are feeling a little risky, you can attempt the Kenyan triple. Be careful if you take that route because it is a high risk, high reward gamble. If you are feeling lucky enough to try the triple for a few days, like in a training camp setting, make sure that the three to four days leading up to and following the triple are very easy.

Hopefully, now you can see that no matter what your mileage levels are, there is a time and place for singles, doubles and even triples for those daring folks. Try the aforementioned methods to enhance recovery and performance when you feel like you’ve hit a plateau with your current training methods.

Clearlier

Freiheit wrote: »

Going on my 2nd 2 and a half mile run today,I'm wondering in terms of marathon/half marathon preparation,how does this compare with one 5 miler? Or is there any relationship?.

40 16' for 8k at ladies mini marathon last weekend,also ran 2 miles home and walked 2 miles to the event,any cumulative benefit?.

Thanks
Karen

It depends upon the purpose of the run. If it's to recover from a hard session the 2*2.5m runs might well be a better option for you.

For any other type of run the 5m run is going to be a better option but neither do much to specifically prepare for a half or a marathon except as a stepping stone to longer runs.

Yes, there is a cumulative benefit to running to and from races. A 5 mile race with 2 miles either side of it is usually going to be better than just the 5 mile race!

BeepBeep67

Larry Brent wrote: »

From Steve Magness in Running Times http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=21454&PageNum=1 and more here http://www.scienceofrunning.com/search/label/Doubles



The take-away message is that if you are training to improve performance, there is a time to run once, twice and even possibly three times per day. It all depends on the purpose of the run: If the purpose is to build endurance, such as during a base phase, you want to make sure to include at least one longer run per day. It’s OK to do doubles to build mileage, but these should be completed in an unbalanced way, such as a 60-minute run in the morning followed by a 25-minute run in the evening. The longer run serves as the primary stimulus to increase overall endurance.

That's effectively what I've added to my training this month, 5 doubles so far in Oct, a 30 min run in the morning and a 50-60min run PM. I feel it aids recovery and is a safe way to build mileage as you are not in the same fatigue state as you would be at the end of 90mins.

Freiheit

Thanks,so would last sundays 5 + 2 (separated by just a half an hour) be equivilant of 7 in a training plan? will try to do 8 straight within the next weekly,slower and see how it goes.

Clearlier

Freiheit wrote: »

Thanks,so would last sundays 5 + 2 (separated by just a half an hour) be equivilant of 7 in a training plan? will try to do 8 straight within the next weekly,slower and see how it goes.

Here's my experience.

I've just started back running after a very long layoff due to injury. A few times a week I jog to the gym and back again with 40 minutes in between for stretching and core work. It's 3.75 miles each way. I went for a 5 mile run at the weekend and was astonished at how much more I struggled. I found it significantly harder towards the end of the 5 miles than I did during the second 3.75mile run.

My conclusion is that I'll use the gym runs to help build mileage and I expect it to make it easier for me to adapt to longer singles at a later date but it's of little use for endurance (which for most runners is the limiting factor in half marathons and marathons). 5+2 is better than an even split but it's not the same as 7 even when there's only a half hour between the runs.

Freiheit

Thanks Clearlier,that clarifies a lot,Yes I run to and from work a lot,hence a lot of 2x2.5's. Also don't drive so jog casually to a lot of social gathering,thus further multiples.

This morning jogged 14 miles! a lifetime longest distance. In the mini marathon I pushed hard for the 8k and it hurt much more than taking my time today for 22km. I want to just a complete a marathon,however slowly and today realised that it is realistic.