Estate agency not returning deposit

blondie83

Hi there, just wondering if anyone has any advice on this. We finished up our lease, gave the required notice that we were not going to renew, and moved out no problem. However we're having some trouble getting the security deposit back from our estate agency. Every time we contact them about it they just say the same thing "unfortunately we do not have your deposit yet, we are working to get it back from the landlord and will let you know when we do". I know they've inspected the place, and had new tennants in two days after we left, so thats not the problem. We asked for more information about their communication with the landlord, but apparently he just tells them he will send it in, and then nothing happens. The agency seem quite disinterested, and we're just not too sure what we can do at this point. Does anyone have any ideas? We've tried emailing and calling, and just get the same stock response :-(

Procrastastudy

blondie83 wrote: »

Hi there, just wondering if anyone has any advice on this. We finished up our lease, gave the required notice that we were not going to renew, and moved out no problem. However we're having some trouble getting the security deposit back from our estate agency. Every time we contact them about it they just say the same thing "unfortunately we do not have your deposit yet, we are working to get it back from the landlord and will let you know when we do". I know they've inspected the place, and had new tennants in two days after we left, so thats not the problem. We asked for more information about their communication with the landlord, but apparently he just tells them he will send it in, and then nothing happens. The agency seem quite disinterested, and we're just not too sure what we can do at this point. Does anyone have any ideas? We've tried emailing and calling, and just get the same stock response :-(

Ask for the landlords details as you are "taking it to the PRTB". Hopefully that might spur the landlord on.

djimi

Do you have the landlords contact informtion? Legally they are required to provide it to you (its usually on the lease).

My advice would be to write to the landlord directly (registed letter only, keep a copy for yourself) stating that you are awaitig the return of your deposit and that you want them to contact you within a specified time frame (say a week) to sort out the return of the deposit. If you hear nothing back from them and/or the process of the deposit return has not started by the deadline stated, write another letter (again registered and keep a copy) with another deadline, stating that if the deadline is not met to have the issue sorted then you will have no choice but to lodge a case with the PRTB.

blondie83

Oh we've tried that - they flat out refuse to give us any contact details fo the landlord, or even his name. When we mentioned the PTRB the estate agents responed by saying "that will take you 3-6 months to get a hearing, and we'll have your deposit back by then, so there's really no point"

Procrastastudy

blondie83 wrote: »

Oh we've tried that - they flat out refuse to give us any contact details fo the landlord, or even his name. When we mentioned the PTRB the estate agents responed by saying "that will take you 3-6 months to get a hearing, and we'll have your deposit back by then, so there's really no point"

There really should be an ombudsman set up for these agencies. Can you report the agency to the PRTB?

blondie83

Djimi do you know if there's any relevant legal link that says they have to give his contact details to us? If so that would be fantastic as I could send it to the agency. We would really like to talk to the landlord just to understand what's going on!

Procrastastudy - yeah thought of reporting them for that, but I'm not sure if there's a body to regulate estate agences. We did consider the IAVI, but don't think they would do for this :-(

djimi

blondie83 wrote: »

Oh we've tried that - they flat out refuse to give us any contact details fo the landlord, or even his name. When we mentioned the PTRB the estate agents responed by saying "that will take you 3-6 months to get a hearing, and we'll have your deposit back by then, so there's really no point"

Legally the landlord must provide the tenant with their contact details.

Inform the letting agent that in the case of the landlord losing they will most likely be awarded damages on top of the returned deposit considering the length of time involved, and also the fact that the landlord broke the law in not provided their contact details. Let them know that it is your right as a tenant to persue this case through the PRTB and that you are quite happy to wait for the damages payout from the landlord if this is the route that they are happy to take.

Also make sure that all correspondance, both with the letting agent and the landlord, is in writing from here on in. Do not speak to either on the phone; you want everything written down so that you can present it as evidence if it does go before the PRTB.

djimi

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

Under landlord obligations. Itll be in the statute book somewhere as well, but I dont have time to go through it looking for the relevant part Im afraid!

Erm, it's the agency who has the deposit, not the landlord, no? It's them who should be returning it. Stop trying to chase the landlord and tell them to pay up and worry about any dealings THEY have with the landlord on their own time.

Procrastastudy

bluewolf wrote: »

Erm, it's the agency who has the deposit, not the landlord, no? It's them who should be returning it. Stop trying to chase the landlord and tell them to pay up and worry about any dealings THEY have with the landlord on their own time.

I would have thought it would depend on the relationship between the agency and the LL - I'm open to correction of course.

djimi

bluewolf wrote: »

Erm, it's the agency who has the deposit, not the landlord, no? It's them who should be returning it. Stop trying to chase the landlord and tell them to pay up and worry about any dealings THEY have with the landlord on their own time.

The OP has tried chasing the letting agent, with no joy. Legally the landlord cannot hide from the tenant, and in this case I would not be bothered persuing the letting agent any further and would concentrate on the landlord. If they are on the level then they will sort out the letting agent. If they are not then ultimately it is the landlord that the OP will be persuing anyway.

blondie83

Sorry no bluewolf - it's the landlord who still has the deposit - the agency are saying he hasn't given it back to them, but they're not really bothering to chase it up so it'd going nowhere! Thanks for the link and advice guys, gonna go back to the agency now.

P. Breathnach

It doesn't matter who has the deposit. If you paid it to the agent (the person who acts on behalf of the landlord and stands in his place in the letting contract) then you can proceed against the agent. It's a matter for the agent to sort out his own arrangements with the landlord.

The_Conductor

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It doesn't matter who has the deposit. If you paid it to the agent (the person who acts on behalf of the landlord and stands in his place in the letting contract) then you can proceed against the agent. It's a matter for the agent to sort out his own arrangements with the landlord.

Correct.
The agent is the person you should chase.

OP- Inform the agency (acting in the capacity of agent), that they have x number of days to return the deposit (I'd give them a week), or you are lodging a case with the PRTB. Add that you are aware that it may take some time for a case to come up- however as agent it will reflect very poorly on them professionally, if they do not do their job. Give the PRTB your 15 Euro (or whatever the fee is now)- and sit back and wait- if they don't return the deposit within the week. Do it. Its a presumption on the part of people who work in the agency that you couldn't be arsed chasing it that means they don't have to do their job.

ResearchWill

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It doesn't matter who has the deposit. If you paid it to the agent (the person who acts on behalf of the landlord and stands in his place in the letting contract) then you can proceed against the agent. It's a matter for the agent to sort out his own arrangements with the landlord.

The agent is the agent for the land lord, under the law of agency you can and should sue the principle for the actions of his agent. That is the whole point of agency law so you can get at the principle.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/agency

"the agent represents the principal and is subject to the principal's control. More important, the principal is liable for the consequences of acts that the agent has been directed to perform."

ResearchWill

smccarrick wrote: »

Correct.
The agent is the person you should chase.

OP- Inform the agency (acting in the capacity of agent), that they have x number of days to return the deposit (I'd give them a week), or you are lodging a case with the PRTB. Add that you are aware that it may take some time for a case to come up- however as agent it will reflect very poorly on them professionally, if they do not do their job. Give the PRTB your 15 Euro (or whatever the fee is now)- and sit back and wait- if they don't return the deposit within the week. Do it. Its a presumption on the part of people who work in the agency that you couldn't be arsed chasing it that means they don't have to do their job.

Incorrect the landlord is the principle and liable in law, tell the letting agent you want the details of land lord or money, if you have neither you will launch prtb proceedings, plus when the estate agents licence is up to be renewed you will object or complain to Property Services Regulation Authority.

The_Conductor

A landlord can (and under a list of defined circumstances, including but not limited to, non-residence), appoint an agent for their property. Providing the agent is notified to the Revenue Commissioners, they are obligated to represent the landlord to both the PRTB and the Revenue Commissioners, and to ensure tax and legal obligations under both consolidated acts are complied with.

A letting agent, on the other hand- is normally an estate agent or such, dabbling in letting property- which is quite different to a legal agent, as it pertains to a landlord.

Check out both acts.

ResearchWill

smccarrick wrote: »

A landlord can (and under a list of defined circumstances, including but not limited to, non-residence), appoint an agent for their property. Providing the agent is notified to the Revenue Commissioners, they are obligated to represent the landlord to both the PRTB and the Revenue Commissioners, and to ensure tax and legal obligations under both consolidated acts are complied with.

A letting agent, on the other hand- is normally an estate agent or such, dabbling in letting property- which is quite different to a legal agent, as it pertains to a landlord.

Check out both acts.

And considering in this case the Landlord held the deposit we can safely assume that it is an estate agent. In any case how does either case stop a tenant suing the landlord. If you can point me to a section of any act that says a tenant must sue an agent of the landlord.

The PRTB Act allows the landlord to appoint a authorised agent but I see nothing in the act that puts that person in a higher position than the landlord. In fact the act requires that the landlord provide to the remnant the contact details of his AA.

djimi

The landlord has to appoint the agent formally in writing to the tenant, dont they?

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

The landlord has to appoint the agent formally in writing to the tenant, dont they?

Yes. They also have to be formally appointed as the representative to the PRTB, and in the case of absentee landlords, to the Revenue Commissioners.

ResearchWill

smccarrick wrote: »

Yes. They also have to be formally appointed as the representative to the PRTB, and in the case of absentee landlords, to the Revenue Commissioners.

As in this case the OP does not know who the LL is so its safe to assume the requirement to appoint same has not happened. So we are back to how does appointment remove the landlord from being sued.

The_Conductor

ResearchWill wrote: »

As in this case the OP does not know who the LL is so its safe to assume the requirement to appoint same has not happened. So we are back to how does appointment remove the landlord from being sued.

Sued?
All the OP needs do is lodge a case with the PRTB- and the threat of same with a rock solid deadline- should be sufficient to get their deposit back.
We're going round in circles here.

ResearchWill

smccarrick wrote: »

Sued?
All the OP needs do is lodge a case with the PRTB- and the threat of same with a rock solid deadline- should be sufficient to get their deposit back.
We're going round in circles here.

OK removes the LL from being named on the PRTB papers. Also the OP can get onto the PRTB to check who is registered as LL, if there is no registration then I believe the OP does not need to go down that route, in fact the OP should have received registration details I believe same take about 11 months to be posted out go figure. It's a pity the OP can not sue in the DC the case would be over and dusted in a matter of a few short months.

The_Conductor

ResearchWill wrote: »

OK removes the LL from being named on the PRTB papers.

But not the determination.
The PRTB would have multiple reasons for chasing the landlord- if the property isn't registered- including the fine for non-registration, and the intention is that they would notify the section in Revenue chasing these cases- so the Landlord could expect a Revenue grilling too.
The address of the property alone is sufficient to initiate a case- however obviously it would impede an investigation- and doubtlessly lengthen it.

blondie83

Thanks for all the responses guys. We gave a deadline which the estate agency did not make, and the deposit still has not been paid. The agency have informed us (quite unconcernedly) that they believe the landlord has the capital, he just hasn't paid it back to them yet! We've requested details for the PRTB, and the agency gave us his name, and told us to use their address for the case. I reckon that's the route we'll have to go down now, as they are really just not bothered chasing him for the money. Thanks again for all the advice!

djimi

Make sure you keep absolutely everything in writing. From now on in only deal with the letting agent via letter.

Rasmus

Hi OP,
Like others have said, keep everything in writing. We were pretty much in the same situation - paid deposit to agency, but upon moving out, they wouldn't return it as the landlord apparently held the money. It actually doesn't matter that much who is accountable for what, or what the law states, as nobody will listen until the case has gone through PRTB. We've been waiting about 5 months now and hoping for a solution from PRTB by early next year. I'd advise you to just bite the bullet and submit a claim, as it sounds like the agency are stringing you along.

the_syco

Who did you give the deposit to? The EA or the landlord?

If you gave it to the EA, inform them that you'll be naming them as the people withholding the rent when you goto the PTRB, as you have had no interaction with the landlord. And when you win, you'll be sure to inform the (insert local free newspaper here) that the EA withheld the deposit, was grossly unfair, etc, etc.

tothepowerof3

Over two months and still no sign of security deposit!

Same story every time - "the landlord has it; there is a lot of administration to go through before the money is handed over; our hands are tied."

I actually can't believe that a security deposit which you would think should be segregated in a special client account, untouched and ready for return at the end of a tenancy, would be so difficult to have returned.

Doom

Report the landlord to Revenue too