Av bits and bobs, help needed!!!

CiDeRmAn

So, I found my AV set up lacking today, for the first time.
This of course demands that I strip it out and update it all.
So, I need to permanently hook up some 20 different consoles, composite and RGB, to a CRT that can take both signals.
I want something that isn't going to cost me in terms of image quality and I need it automatic as well, so it senses what is active and switches to that input.

And it needs to be cheap, cheap like Jordan.

o1s1n

you finally saw the light!!!

rgb cables will be the most expensive part. they range from 10 to 15 each. So your first step is figuring out which ones support it.

off the top of myhead -

MD/snes/ps1&2/AES/jag/Dc/xbox/saturn

Ones which dont support it need to at least have composite or svideo like the n64

The Last Bandit

Stick up a list of the console outputs you need to connect and the number/type of inputs on your TV.

10 x RGB SCART , 5 x S-Video, 3 x Composite , 2 x RF etc etc

We should be able to figure out a quality, cost effective solution (eventually)

CiDeRmAn

Define the parameters of "a quality, cost effective solution", how much might we be talking aboot? (as our Canadian cousins say)

The Last Bandit

10 meter SCART cables are about €20 and 3-4 way switch box are about €20 or so as well, so the price quickly adds up using off the shelf stuff.

Now, standard CAT5 network cable is a well capable of carrying RGB signals without any loss and would be a lot easier to roll out and is cheaper to boot. Downsides are it only has 8 wires and SCART sockets would need to added, effectively you're making up a custom harness - so in short, more work to make, easier to install and cheaper.

I'll do some experiments with my stuff here with hooking up multiple consoles in parallel and see what the quality is like but I reckon it should be doable.

Steve X2

Auto switching RGB scart boxes are usually rubbish quality visuals with interference and other problems. I find the manual ones to be much cheaper and better.
Just label them and you're all set.

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

Auto switching RGB scart boxes are usually rubbish quality visuals with interference and other problems. I find the manual ones to be much cheaper and better.
Just label them and you're all set.

Agreed, you really should look at manually switched ones Cidey & ones that carry RGB on all channels. I got two nice madcatz ones on ebay there last year, perfect they are.

Last Bandit is on the right track there I think, a custom harness fitted with sockets on it all wired with cat5 sounds perfect for your setup man

Steve X2

Those madcatz ones are nice but none around when I needed them so got a few of these.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000BN6LL8/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
Cheap and superb quality on the RGB.

And I got some Duronic cables of various length as they were going crazy cheap on amazon and still are very reasonable.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0035T5HN8/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01
The Duronic cables are really high quality for the price.

CiDeRmAn

I can put Kerbdog to work if there is a cost effective solution, I am browned off looking at substandard pictures from my Horde.

It has served me for just over 11 years now, but there is a need to see it updated.
If I can I'll mount and label the AV switches nicely, make it all classy like...

KeRbDoG

I can see a MacGyver montage scene is gonna happen in a games room near you soon Cider

KeRbDoG

o1s1n wrote: »

...
Ones which dont support it need to at least have composite or svideo like the n64

Maybe just get a NUS-001 FRA N64, do the 'install missing components' mod and use a standard SNES RGB cable

SCART - for RGB + composite inputs
I'd say - yes, move to using RGB outputs/cables-to-SCART now to get the best picture quality.

Using a SCART switch would then allow you to combine RGB inputs via SCART and also composite inputs. I wouldn't go (I mean I as it would end up being me doing it) using CAT5/6 cable, making up custom wiring solution just to carry the RGB/audio signals for a SCART setup. What if a device only has a composite output since you don't want to open it to tap the video chip OR the RGB cables are mad expensive? Would lead to more hacking = bad times for Kerb.

El-Cheapo solution as mentioned before - these are cheap so worth the gamble to get 2~3 to check out their quality;
SCART 5 way manual switcher - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170584937733
An auto switcher would cost lots more, so I'd play with the cheapo thing first and if it fits the bill/need then invest in an auto switcher in time

You could daisy chain them but I'm sure the quality would suffer and those things prob aren't the best quality to start with but el-cheapo and worth a gamble

SCART extension cables for those far away machines - prob find 2M ones instead of these. Again, cheapish so worth buying one to see how they are put together, if there is good shielding etc. Just saw that Amazon link above for a 'High Speed Scart' cable. Classic sales pitch, wonder how it makes a basic analogue signal high speed? While shielding is nearly a super bonus for any analogue video cable, I personally wouldn't bother gold connectors etc.;
5M - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330783316846
10M - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190660644331


RF - for older systems
Two options for a passive setup (no switching, always connected);
We run coax to each console that needs it, again using high quality cable, and terminate them all to one of these and then to the TV;
8 way combiner, f-type connectors - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120976178601
OR
Just make a RF circuit around the room using high grade coax with tap offs like this to small cables with normal RF push connectors;
Basic 2 way coax connector, f-type connectors - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251142298838

Either one of the RF options would be better than the current setup anywho

Retr0gamer

More people need to listen to me. I might be obnoxious but I'm always right! RGB all the way!

Steve X2

Don't cheap out to much on the RGB cables if I were you. Spend an extra 2 or 3 euro and you can get some great quality ones from amazon. Again, Duronic cables all the way as they've dropped to crazy low prices over the last year and the build quality is superb.

The Last Bandit

Composite video uses a subset of the pins required for RGB so no problems carrying RGB and composite on home made cables - just use one of those SCART/composite adapter thingys are your good.

Definitely easier just to buy the SCART cables and switchers if you funds and enough room for all the bulky crap.

If you do buy SCART switchers avoid the ones with push-on push-off switches for each channel - these are BAD...

When a console is displaying RGB it sends out power (usually 5v) on SCART pin 16 to tell the TV to expect a RGB not composite signal. If you have multiple SCART channels 'on' at the same time then this power is feed to anything connected to the 'on' channel, so you're (partially) powering up other consoles thru their AV port and possibly overloading the psu for the console you intend to use.

KeRbDoG

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Composite video uses a subset of the pins required for RGB so no problems carrying RGB and composite on home made cables - just use one of those SCART/composite adapter thingys are your good.

Definitely easier just to buy the SCART cables and switchers if you funds and enough room for all the bulky crap.

If you do buy SCART switchers avoid the ones with push-on push-off switches for each channel - these are BAD...

When a console is displaying RGB it sends out power (usually 5v) on SCART pin 16 to tell the TV to expect a RGB not composite signal. If you have multiple SCART channels 'on' at the same time then this power is feed to anything connected to the 'on' channel, so you're (partially) powering up other consoles thru their AV port and possibly overloading the psu for the console you intend to use.

Umm, good point. Maybe a modding of the 5v supply on pin 16 in the SCART connector could be done in the switcher to ensure it doesn't get fed back the wrong way and into console. Diode maybe anyone?

The Last Bandit

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Umm, good point. Maybe a modding of the 5v supply on pin 16 in the SCART connector could be done in the switcher to ensure it doesn't get fed back the wrong way and into console. Diode maybe anyone?

Yep adding a diode (bog standard IN4001) to the switch boxes or to the SCART plug on each console will take care of it.

Caught me by surprise one day to see the SNES power light on when switched off !!

o1s1n

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Caught me by surprise one day to see the SNES power light on when switched off !!

This happens with my manual scart switcher and I havent been able to figure out what was causing it.

The Megadrive LED, Snes LED and little power light on the AES adapter thing were lighting up when the consoles were powered off.

moonlighting

would it be possible to get an 8 way switchable av unit. also any good websites for av console cables i need a mega drive and game cube av cable also need to mod a regular master system for av.

The Last Bandit

consolegoods.co.uk seems to be the best place for getting cables, they have an ebay store as well.

Never seen a 8 way AV switcher..

CiDeRmAn

8 way switcher incoming!
8 way RCA switcher

And they have this 12 way AV splitter...
12 way RCA Splitter
Now, according to the blurb, it is for splitting one AV input between 12 tv's, video recorders etc.
My question is, would it happily work in reverse?
No switches, just 12 inputs and one out.
Thing is, this has a built in amp, that needs a power supply, perhaps that'll frak up the cunning plan...

Myrddin

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

8 way switcher incoming!
8 way RCA switcher

Try stick to RGB where you can man, you'll only regret it eventually after spending all that money.

I too can second consolegoods for rgb cables,

CiDeRmAn

I know.... it's just.... I'm not so hung up on RGB quality, I'm not such a videophile as you, I am quite content with a decent composite picture, if that in itself isn't an oxymoron!
So, the 8 way switcher, if decent, is a good buy.
Certainly there is no real option for an RGB switcher, unless a person can build it themselves, which I can't!
Hmmm, starting to wobble back to composite now!

The Last Bandit

The 12 way one won't work backwards as in 12 consoles to 1 telly. It basically just a booster/repeater by the looks of it.

My TV can't handle NTSC composite so I have to RGB everything foreign but if you're happy enough with it stick with it. Could be worse at least you're not still on RF like Retro is

CiDeRmAn

Yeah, Retr0 playing MD/Genesis games via RF... a bit of a shocker, and him with a Mega Everdrive on the way too!

KeRbDoG

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I know.... it's just.... I'm not so hung up on RGB quality, I'm not such a videophile as you, I am quite content with a decent composite picture, if that in itself isn't an oxymoron!
So, the 8 way switcher, if decent, is a good buy.
Certainly there is no real option for an RGB switcher, unless a person can build it themselves, which I can't!
Hmmm, starting to wobble back to composite now!

Yea don't need a 'RGB switcher', just a SCART switcher! Think of the future man when yea get a better CRT which will make composite look like pants ...

o1s1n

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I know.... it's just.... I'm not so hung up on RGB quality, I'm not such a videophile as you, I am quite content with a decent composite picture, if that in itself isn't an oxymoron!
So, the 8 way switcher, if decent, is a good buy.
Certainly there is no real option for an RGB switcher, unless a person can build it themselves, which I can't!
Hmmm, starting to wobble back to composite now!

You know when you see a pile of insects on the Discovery channel and they're all wriggling around? That is exactly what composite is like. Pause the screen and go up and look at it. It's all wriggling and moving.

I sit quite close to my TV when I play games and composite gives me a headache. Dot crawl is the devil.

Using RGB isn't being a videophile at all. It really is a requirement.

As I've always said to folk, if you don't notice a huge difference, then you have the RGB scart cable going into the wrong socket on your tv (and it's displaying composite)

I'll have to have you out here some evening to demonstrate the difference. Even show you the difference between s video and composite. That's enough to spend a fortune on S video cables - and RGB is better than S video.

Retr0gamer

As I've said before the day after I bought my first RGB cable for the GC the difference was so big that I ran out the next day and bought RGB cables for all my consoles. It was like jumping to HD (in fact some supposedly HD games like Call of Duty display at a resolution quite close to PAL RGB.