Turmoil as top coach leaves AI (Anne Kennan-Buckley) - Irish Daily Mail today

Middle Distance

Irish Athletics is entering a fresh period of turmoil with a senior member of the high performance team understood to have resigned and Kevin Ankrom warning that further changes will follow this winter!

TRR

This would be funny if it wasn't so serious. In the last paragraph it states that McGonagle is hoping to stay on board and Ankrom says he wants to see good people stay on board and would be happy if Patsy stayed onside. Does this imply that Keenan-Buckley isn't "good". I don't know any of the individuals personally but talking to athletes who have interactions with them I wouldn't imagine Keenan-Buckley is the problem!!!!

Middle Distance

From what I see as an avid athletic fan Kennan-Buckley does a great job and probably a better one than them all put together

TRR

Middle Distance wrote: »

From what I see as an avid athletic fan Kennan-Buckley does a great job and probably a better one than them all put together

That's the feedback I get back as well. I have never heard a bad word said about her and lets be honest not only is she liked and respected by the athletes she also achieved a huge amount herself and knows what athlete want. I wonder can the same be said for some of the others.

Getonwithit

The circus continues! When he talks about a small Hp team working with the elite top end and the ongoing volunteer force providing the grunt at the coal face it galls me. I'd bet, quite confidently, that if he had to pick our international junior/23 and some of our seniors out of a line up he couldn't.

tHE vAGGABOND

Hands up that Im a cynic, but I dont understand how anyone can be said to be doing a great job on the athletics high performance team tbh..

In the major champs this summer we hardly did much punching above our weight [Fionnula Britton apart, and I wonder how much she had to do with that?]. We had lots of "what if's" and "maybe's" and folks we all thougth had potential, but who just did not perform.

Some fresh blood coming in, as we enter a new Olympic cycle and all that would be no harm at all, everyone needs a change every so often

TRR

seems the story was incorrect which is entirely plausible considering the paper it was printed in is a rag or there has been a massive U-turn on behalf of the AAI. I suspect a U-turn to be honest

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=28372

Pisco Sour

TRR wrote: »

seems the story was incorrect which is entirely plausible considering the paper it was printed in is a rag or there has been a massive U-turn on behalf of the AAI. I suspect a U-turn to be honest

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=28372

100% a u-turn!

token56

Confirmed today by the independent Anne Keenan-Buckley has stepped down.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/disillusioned-crosscountry-chief-keenanbuckley-quits-3279549.html

It's very sad to see someone I know very well personally become so unhappy being involved in a sport they really do love and have given so much for.

myflipflops

AK-B pretty much universally liked and respected by any international athlete I know. One of the few who has the same amount of time and energy for athlete struggling on the sidelines with injury as those that are flying. A huge loss to the AAI and more importantly, to individaul athletes who may now have zero suppport during the tough times.

The wrong people in the high performance team are resigning.

At some point, AAI need to realise that Kevin Ankroms 'results' in New Zealand had approximately zero to do with him. Successes:

Nick Willis - Lives and trains in America after coming through the NCAA system. No influence from Ankrom.

Kim Smith - See Nick Willis.

Valerie Adams - Absolute athletic freak. No influence from any systems or coaching put together by Athletics NZ.

For an example of the type of system that Ankrom left behind him, we should really look at the attitude towards Jacko Gill and his non participation in the Olympics in London. There is no real system in place to either develop young athletes or support HP athletes over there. He left Atletics NZ in a weaker position that when he joined it despite having the international medals to build on.

Time to cut our losses now. With AK-B resignation, we are now at a point where Ankrom (i think we can take her comments as being aimed directly at him) is actually doing damage rather than simply doing nothing positive.

runjb

Hugely disappointing news that Anne Keenan-Buckley has resigned! The independent quotes that she has stepped down 'because of my disillusionment with the high performance management and the direction it is taking'. She also states that 'But I felt I had exhausted every option, and I hope and believe I have taken the right decision...'

Anne Keenan Buckley has undoubtedly the expertise and know how regarding cross country and from what I have ever heard is a genuine hard working woman and coach. Her track record over the last 5 years as head of the Irish CC team has been strong and I think athletes look up to her and respect her for her own cross country exploits.

Kevin Ankrom has a lot to answer for! After the many blunders during the summer (relay team selection, negative comments about Derval and Hession, his focus and questionnable agenda...). I think it's time the AAI stands up and calls a halt to his tenure! Losing Anne Keenan-Buckley is not going to improve Irish athletics, full stop!!!

runjb

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1101/1224325978362.html

Irish Times has this! So whatever direction the HP unit are pushing towards seems to be the main cause for her departure. I wonder if this new direction will have direct bearing on the Irish team for the upcoming European XC Championships?

average_runner

What is this new direction i wonder?

woodchopper

Why is this job been given to TMcDaid?

What are her credentials in cross country ?

I know she helped with the logistics of Santry a few years ago and I presume it is for this reason she has been given the job. Steady the ship as it were, only problem is this ship is sinking faster than the titanic!

fiddy3

Appears as if he's doing a job that someone who's NOT on a six-figure salary could do much better. When you drive someone as committed, involved and respected as AKB out of her role five weeks before a Euro XC where medals are in the pipeline, you know you're bad. Piss-poor, in fact.

Eurox

woodchopper wrote: »

Why is this job been given to TMcDaid?

What are her credentials in cross country ?

I know she helped with the logistics of Santry a few years ago and I presume it is for this reason she has been given the job. Steady the ship as it were, only problem is this ship is sinking faster than the titanic!

Why shouldnt she get the job, you obviously don’t know too much about TmcD to say something like that

runjb

The replacement is really a side issue. Teresa is a great organiser and has brought on some very promising athletes in Donegal. While she may not have the same experience and know how as Anne Keenan Buckley in the field of Cross Country, she will no doubt do her very best and hopefully a fine job!

Any anger, in my opinion, should be directed at the AAI and Kevin Ankrom.

woodchopper

Eurox wrote: »

Why shouldnt she get the job, you obviously don’t know too much about TmcD to say something like that

You obviously know nothing about cross country running. If this where a position for managing a group of middle distance runners she is the first person the AAI should go to.

In case you do not realize as it appears you cannot dintinguish between middle distance and distance events, cross country is primarily an aerobic event especially at 10-12k. Has she experience managing top endurance athletes?

What about Dick Hooper ?

runjb

http://www.rte.ie/sport/athletics/2012/1101/343930-keenan-buckley-steps-down-as-cross-country-manager/?utm_source=NewsWhip

RTE have picked up the story

Burmah

I am sure the reason that Teresa McDaid was given the team manager's job for the forthcoming European CC Champs is that she has been one of the coaches who worked along with Anne Keenan Buckley at previous European CC Champs. It was a logical progression in order to keep things as close to possible as it was under AKB.

Woodchopper. the team manager's job is not to coach the athletes for the European CC as you seem to be think. That is the job of their individual coaches.

woodchopper

Burmah wrote: »

I am sure the reason that Teresa McDaid was given the team manager's job for the forthcoming European CC Champs is that she has been one of the coaches who worked along with Anne Keenan Buckley at previous European CC Champs. It was a logical progression in order to keep things as close to possible as it was under AKB.

Woodchopper. the team manager's job is not to coach the athletes for the European CC as you seem to be think. That is the job of their individual coaches.

You could be right sir Sure realistically there is nobody else capable in the backroom staff of last years coaches to take the job on!

Nic Bideau could be an option on a full time basis. He coaches some of Irelands best athletes like Dave Campbell and Paul Robinson and has Irish ties. The UK have hired Terrance McMahon so Ireland should also headhunt top managers and visionaries.

Burmah

Nic Bideau and Terence Mahon have proved themselves to be great coaches. However, the job that had to be filled following the departure of AKB (which is a terrible disappointment to me) is that of a team manager and I would say the coaches that did the job of looking after the athletes at recent European CC's did their jobs well. I suppose that is for the athlete's to comment on. The point I was making in previous post is that it is the individual athletes coaches who train them all year round and the job of the Irish team coaches only happens during the actual European CC Champs.

Dave Campbell was coached by Nic Bideau. Paul Robinson is coached by Robert Denmead, Nic is Paul's agent.

woodchopper

Burmah wrote: »

Nic Bideau and Terence Mahon have proved themselves to be great coaches. However, the job that had to be filled following the departure of AKB (which is a terrible disappointment to me) is that of a team manager and I would say the coaches that did the job of looking after the athletes at recent European CC's did their jobs well. I suppose that is for the athlete's to comment on. The point I was making in previous post is that it is the individual athletes coaches who train them all year round and the job of the Irish team coaches only happens during the actual European CC Champs.

Dave Campbell was coached by Nic Bideau. Paul Robinson is coached by Robert Denmead, Nic is Paul's agent.

Two repsonses in one day, more than in an entire year which leaves me very suspicious!

Deanmead only does what Nic Bideau tells him to do with regards to Paul. Rob is more an advisor to Paul at this stage especially while he is based in Ireland. The methodology that Paul uses as seen in an interview with the Running Review has all the hall marks of Nic Bideau's training methodology i.e intervals on Tuesday, threshold on Thrusday, hills on a Saturday and a Sunday long run.

Extract from the interview. James Sullivan interviews Paul Robinson

James: What would an average week of training be like at this time of the year, specifically in terms of key sessions?

Paul: At the moment I don’t really have any key sessions to get me ready to race. I’m still doing mostly base work with a typical week consisting of a threshold session, long intervals, hills and a long run. I will start more specific work on the track closer to the start of the season.


Also Paul mentions training with Ryan Gregson and Colis Birmingham. He was hardly been coached by Rob Deanmead while in Austrialia. Just a point I made since you are such a big fan of Rob's training since your only previous post lobbied people to go on his coaching website!

Jogging Newbie

woodchopper wrote: »

The methodology that Paul uses as seen in an interview with the Running Review has all the hall marks of Nic Bideau's training methodology i.e intervals on Tuesday, threshold on Thrusday, hills on a Saturday and a Sunday long run.

I don't think that Nic Bideau is the only one exclusively using that weekly structure. I believe that is the weekly structure used by many clubs in this country that focus on cross country. I would say that methodology reflects many athletes current schedules?

woodchopper

Jogging Newbie wrote: »

I don't think that Nic Bideau is the only one exclusively using that weekly structure. I believe that is the weekly structure used by many clubs in this country that focus on cross country. I would say that methodology reflects many athletes current schedules?

Could you name a club who pursues this to the same degree?

Burmah

Woodchoper, the difference between you and me is that I know both Paul and Robert very well and I know what the situation is, while you just seem to read interviews and think you know what the coaching situation. Better still ask Paul yourself who coaches him when you meet him. Nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth. The facts are as stated in my previous post. And don't worry I won't be wasting my time trying to set you straight again.

Jogging Newbie

woodchopper wrote: »

Could you name a club who pursues this to the same degree?

DSD.

woodchopper

Jogging Newbie wrote: »

DSD.

Who do you think Eddie and Nic are influenced by? I will give you a guess, he is from New Zealand. Anyway Bideau's training has a lot more structure than Eddies crash and bash methodology

footing

fiddy3 wrote: »

Appears as if he's doing a job that someone who's NOT on a six-figure salary could do much better. When you drive someone as committed, involved and respected as AKB out of her role five weeks before a Euro XC where medals are in the pipeline, you know you're bad. Piss-poor, in fact.

Why are the national coaches for athletics and swimming paid so generously? I know of another sport where the Irish Sports Council had made it clear that it expects them to produce Olympic qualifiers and then will allow them only €30,000 to pay a national coach!
PS: The campaign to make AKB our national coach starts HERE!!

woodchopper

Burmah wrote: »

Woodchoper, the difference between you and me is that I know both Paul and Robert very well and I know what the situation is, while you just seem to read interviews and think you know what the coaching situation. Better still ask Paul yourself who coaches him when you meet him. Nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth. The facts are as stated in my previous post. And don't worry I won't be wasting my time trying to set you straight again.

3 posts in one day I must have hit a nerve. By the way of course you know who Robby is!

footing

Middle Distance wrote: »

Irish Athletics is entering a fresh period of turmoil with a senior member of the high performance team understood to have resigned and Kevin Ankrom warning that further changes will follow this winter!

So why is Aoife Hoey being sidelined as well? Sorry - now know she's left the country.

woodchopper

footing wrote: »

Why are the national coaches for athletics and swimming paid so generously? I know of another sport where the Irish Sports Council had made it clear that it expects them to produce Olympic qualifiers and then will allow them only €30,000 to pay a national coach!
PS: The campaign to make AKB our national coach starts HERE!!

AKB is arguably the best distance running coach in the midlands

thirtyfoot

The team manager position in athletics should not be confused with team sports. As someone pointed out they will have little influence on an athlete's prep in the other 51 odd weeks of a year. Her departure is not a major deal as regards the impact it will have on the athletes aside from sentimental reasons but her reason for leaving is the key point. A team manager will be as much a logistics/fixer person, keeping everything ticking over on the ground, ensuring athletes are looked after, providing motivation, getting them to race, arranging callroom etc etc. The thought that Nic Bideau would fill this position is laughable. Its a part-time gig, has little influence on policy etc. Its not a coach position ( as some people seem to think) and its not even an event co-ordinator (or event coach) position.

There is an event co-ordinator (event coach) and that is Teresa McDaid. She is a natural replacement. If you actually got to spend 5 mins talking to her you would realise her credentials. She is perfect for a team manager position. Can manage people, is a super coach, takes no sh*te, suffers no fools.

Sad that AKB has decided to step down, I think she threathened in previous years too, but interesting what her parting shot was.

woodchopper

Why should we settle for anything but the best. If the UK hire Terrance Mahon why dont we headhunt someone to take up the role as High Performance Endurance Director. Nic Bideau is a great candidate for such a position. I dont think anyone meant that Nic should be brought in to carry water bottles and book some Ryanairs flights for a weekend trip in December. We must think of the bigger pricture here.

myflipflops

thirtyfoot wrote: »

The team manager position in athletics should not be confused with team sports. As someone pointed out they will have little influence on an athlete's prep in the other 51 odd weeks of a year. Her departure is not a major deal as regards the impact it will have on the athletes aside from sentimental reasons but her reason for leaving is the key point. A team manager will be as much a logistics/fixer person, keeping everything ticking over on the ground, ensuring athletes are looked after, providing motivation, getting them to race, arranging callroom etc etc. The thought that Nic Bideau would fill this position is laughable. Its a part-time gig, has little influence on policy etc. Its not a coach position ( as some people seem to think) and its not even an event co-ordinator (or event coach) position.

The loss in my opinion is is two main ways:

1 - Distance athletes lose one of the few people who would make a real effort to keep in contact and offer advice and support to them during the bad times. Note how Joe Sweeney specifically praised AKB when he took a couple of shots at the AAI a few years ago. The team manager role on the ground at events is not that important.

2 - The organisation loses a sensible voice. Former Olympic athletes are not too plentiful in the AAI.

woodchopper wrote: »

Why should we settle for anything but the best. If the UK hire Terrance Mahon why dont we headhunt someone to take up the role as High Performance Endurance Director. Nic Bideau is a great candidate for such a position.

Lots of respect for the man as coach and an agent/manager but not someone who I would put in a senior position in an association. Too much history of bad feelings and fall outs with athletes.

Moot point anyway. The AAI with a HP director is a massive case of putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.

woodchopper

myflipflops wrote: »

Lots of respect for the man as coach and an agent/manager but not someone who I would put in a senior position in an association. Too much history of bad feelings and fall outs with athletes.

Moot point anyway. The AAI with a HP director is a massive case of putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.

Your spot on. He took Buster to the cleaners over a house in London after he left him in 08, ended up in court.

footing

thirtyfoot wrote: »

The team manager position in athletics should not be confused with team sports. As someone pointed out they will have little influence on an athlete's prep in the other 51 odd weeks of a year. Her departure is not a major deal as regards the impact it will have on the athletes aside from sentimental reasons but her reason for leaving is the key point. A team manager will be as much a logistics/fixer person, keeping everything ticking over on the ground, ensuring athletes are looked after, providing motivation, getting them to race, arranging callroom etc etc. The thought that Nic Bideau would fill this position is laughable. Its a part-time gig, has little influence on policy etc. Its not a coach position ( as some people seem to think) and its not even an event co-ordinator (or event coach) position.

There is an event co-ordinator (event coach) and that is Teresa McDaid. She is a natural replacement. If you actually got to spend 5 mins talking to her you would realise her credentials. She is perfect for a team manager position. Can manage people, is a super coach, takes no sh*te, suffers no fools.

Sad that AKB has decided to step down, I think she threathened in previous years too, but interesting what her parting shot was.

Well put. The key skill for this job is the ability to communicate and keep the athletes happy. This ability both AKB and TMcD have in spades...
I would argue that it is also a key skill for the HP manager - and for that reason, it is better to get somebody local, maybe mentored by a big name from abroad, who knows the local scene and its particular problems (tracks getting dug up, bad weather, lack of money, etc). Above all, someone who can listen and learn.

Getonwithit

The problem got lost in a silly argument here. The role is team manager, the input a said manager has is minimal out of competition period. When they travel away to comp then the managers role is crucial in communicating and supporting the athlete. A manager would never be in charge of an athletes training though as they are only involved at comp time directly. AKB has left due to disillusionment with the direction of HP in AAI. Hp is directed by Kevin ankrom. Now that's where the discussion on this should start and end..

Getonwithit

woodchopper wrote: »

Who do you think Eddie and Nic are influenced by? I will give you a guess, he is from New Zealand. Anyway Bideau's training has a lot more structure than Eddies crash and bash methodology

I have to respond to this. Eddie who you refer to has put more girls and women in Irish singlets than anyone I know of in Ireland and has contributed in a major way to guys like Brendan o Neill, joe Sweeney etc etc. crash and bash methodology?! I'd say a majority of people in here could do with a bit of crash and bash so! Do you coach yourself woodc hopper?

woodchopper

Getonwithit wrote: »

I have to respond to this. Eddie who you refer to has put more girls and women in Irish singlets than anyone I know of in Ireland and has contributed in a major way to guys like Brendan o Neill, joe Sweeney etc etc. crash and bash methodology?! I'd say a majority of people in here could do with a bit of crash and bash so! Do you coach yourself woodc hopper?

It is pretty obvious that through my posts that I have worked with Gabrile Rosa whilst I was based in Kenya. He has coached Martin Lel, Ducan Kibet and James Kwambai in case you have ever heard of them. He worked them very hard but they were able to absorb the training stimulus.Eddie has a history of burning out athletes whether you want to hear this or not. Take Joe Sweeney, Alan McCormack as examples. Others who have left him from DSD include John Eves, Linda Byrne among others. If you want to win a national title than Eddie is your man, but if you want a long career his record is not great. Ever heard of Robert Connolly?

Getonwithit

woodchopper wrote: »

It is pretty obvious that through my posts that I have worked with Gabrile Rosa whilst I was based in Kenya. He has coached Martin Lel, Ducan Kibet and James Kwambai in case you have ever heard of them. He worked them very hard but they were able to absorb the training stimulus.Eddie has a history of burning out athletes whether you want to hear this or not. Take Joe Sweeney, Alan McCormack as examples. Others who have left him from DSD include John Eves, Linda Byrne among others. If you want to win a national title than Eddie is your man, but if you want a long career his record is not great. Ever heard of Robert Connolly?

Ha yeah I've heard of the boys, I hope you're not claiming you coached them though! Your own post makes that obvious. I still think you're being very harsh on the individual here. You've offered names of people who have left him but still seem to have offered no credit to the role he played in bringing these athletes to the level they reached. For lots of guys being national champ Would be more than enough. Too easy to throw stones..

woodchopper

Getonwithit wrote: »

Ha yeah I've heard of the boys, I hope you're not claiming you coached them though! Your own post makes that obvious. I still think you're being very harsh on the individual here. You've offered names of people who have left him but still seem to have offered no credit to the role he played in bringing these athletes to the level they reached. For lots of guys being national champ Would be more than enough. Too easy to throw stones..

You are 100% entitled to believe that been a national is more than enough. But what about the consequences?Joe Sweeney ended up on an IV drip due to over training. Alan McCormack has also suffered with his health. Breandan O Neil almost had his career ended by a stress fracture a number of years ago.

Getonwithit

woodchopper wrote: »

You are 100% entitled to believe that been a national is more than enough. But what about the consequences?Joe Sweeney ended up on an IV drip due to over training. Alan McCormack has also suffered with his health. Breandan O Neil almost had his career ended by a stress fracture a number of years ago.

The reality is that the majority of athletes we coach on an everyday basis will not be national champions? So get a bit of perspective there.
Is Eddie the only coach associated with overtraining? Why single him out? It's that mentality I object to where a conversation about Akb turns into a free for all on a man who has done a huge service to Irish athletics, far more than you or I as well

woodchopper

Getonwithit wrote: »

The reality is that the majority of athletes we coach on an everyday basis will not be national champions? So get a bit of perspective there.
Is Eddie the only coach associated with overtraining? Why single him out? It's that mentality I object to where a conversation about Akb turns into a free for all on a man who has done a huge service to Irish athletics, far more than you or I as well

All I said to begin with was that Nic Bideau has a more structured training regime than the DSD coach in mention. Your the one who got all high and mighty and draged the conversation through the gutter. I have clearly stated than AKB is the best distance coach in the Midlands which Jogging Newbie rejects.I think AKB is a great coach

Getonwithit

More structured? Crash and bash. As for responsibility for the gutter you are the one Naming and shaming coaches whose credentials are higher than yours. Anyway Internet arguments are boring, hopefully you'll avoid this rubbish in the future, maybe you'll find time to do a bit of full coaching yourself, instead of sports science..
Night night

woodchopper

Getonwithit wrote: »

More structured? Crash and bash. As for responsibility for the gutter you are the one Naming and shaming coaches whose credentials are higher than yours. Anyway Internet arguments are boring, hopefully you'll avoid this rubbish in the future, maybe you'll find time to do a bit of full coaching yourself, instead of sports science..
Night night

I think its time you got this conversation back on the right track. We have differences of opinion but I guess all we can do is just getonwithit!

runjb

Getting back on topic:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1103/1224326091786.html

Well written article by Ian O'Riordan today in the times. Anne Keenan Buckley seems genuinely dismayed and upset about standing down. The last line of the article sums it up:

"the management and direction of high performance within Athletics Ireland has – in my words, not Coe’s – the smell of death about it."

Run4YourLife

Big point here is that AKB thinks that the HP approach is not athlete focused/friendly. Many agree but no one with the power to effect change seems inclined to act. It doesn't matter who steps in - if she's right then athletes are going to find themselves working against the system for the next two years of Ankrom's term.