2 Mk3 cars, Kilashee, Nass

newmug

Hi al. I was in Kilashee house Hotel, just outside Naas the other day. I looked into the field/ yard next door and could not believe my eyes. It looked like 2 MK3's just sitting there! Anyone know what the story is with them?

6205 and another one I believe, two of the former International coaches. There was also a Craven there, not sure if it's still there though. I've no idea why they're there.

6203 was previously at Kilashee but was converted and is now at Caragh Nurseries.

Rud

6205 and Cravens 1558 is all that remains at Killashee.They are used as storage i believe but i have no idea how they came to end up there.I'm sure the chance arose to buy them at the right price.When i took these pictures last year they were in a bad state and i'm sure they havn't improved since

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62132709@N04/sets/72157627638240655/with/6187228119/

Run_to_da_hills

Is there any M3's left in the country that are in preserved railworthy condition or are they all knackered at this stage?

gobnaitolunacy

What on earth does a hotel want with old IE coaches???

The Nurseries one looks a fine job though.

Losty Dublin

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

What on earth does a hotel want with old IE coaches???

The Nurseries one looks a fine job though.

Fitted with an air blower to keep the air fresh and moving and a very heavy paint job outside then they'd make the cheapest and most sturdy long shed money can buy. I'd say Killashea didn't know what they were getting into though; their's are in manky condition based on the one time I saw them plus any photos seen online.

Streetlamp

They're gone now.

d51984

What does Cu na mara mean?

GerardKeating

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

What on earth does a hotel want with old IE coaches???

Perhaps something like this at Glenlo Abbey.

GerardKeating

d51984 wrote: »

What does Cu na mara mean?

The "Cú Na Mara" mostly operated the on the Dublin-Galway line. "Sea Hound" might be a close translation.

I think they were the last set to be built in Inchicore

L1011

GerardKeating wrote: »

The "Cú Na Mara" mostly operated the on the Dublin-Galway line. "Sea Hound" might be a close translation.

I think they were the last set to be built in Inchicore

They were only refurbished and rebogied from the BREL International set there rather than fully built

goingnowhere

6105 + 6319 were the last coaches built at Inchicore

International set was a lick of paint, conversion to 3 phase power, IE spec doors (it already have a similar version), push pull wiring and Alstom bogies. The interior retained some of its BREL decor

Board Walker

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Is there any M3's left in the country that are in preserved railworthy condition or are they all knackered at this stage?

Belmond i'd say is about it.

grayzer75

Board Walker wrote: »

Belmond i'd say is about it.

I think there might be some in Downpatrick, they defo have some old CIE stock.

goingnowhere

Answer is 4, the 4 Enterprise generator vans

Everything else is either rotting away or are being shipped off island shortly

Losty Dublin

grayzer75 wrote: »

I think there might be some in Downpatrick, they defo have some old CIE stock.

Downpatrick don't have any Mark 3 stock, or indeed any Mark 2 or Craven stock.

The closest they have are the 450 Class Railcars, which have the basic body shell of a Mark 3. The 80 Class shells are Mark 2 body, before anybody asks.

Jamie2k9

goingnowhere wrote: »

6105 + 6319 were the last coaches built at Inchicore

International set was a lick of paint, conversion to 3 phase power, IE spec doors (it already have a similar version), push pull wiring and Alstom bogies. The interior retained some of its BREL decor

Was PP ever trailed or what was the plan?

The DVT on IIIs wouldn't have been able to power the set. Keep the Generator Van on the set or build a new DVT?

goingnowhere

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Was PP ever trailed or what was the plan?

The DVT on IIIs wouldn't have been able to power the set. Keep the Generator Van on the set or build a new DVT?

There was a international coach which never was converted, this was the baggage car from the set. This was to be the DVT but either due cost or complexity it never was completed.

Board Walker

Remember there was 2 red/maroon MK3 coaches that you'd see the very odd time. Mostly parked up in Heuston yard. What is the story behind those?

Del.Monte

Board Walker wrote: »

Remember there was 2 red/maroon MK3 coaches that you'd see the very odd time. Mostly parked up in Heuston yard. What is the story behind those?

They were from the 'Executive' train and since scrapped or sold to Belmond or whatever - there's obviously no market for business customers in Ireland. Good old CIE. :rolleyes:

goingnowhere

7161 still exists, it is in Inchicore under RPSI ownership, will never travel out on the mainline.

TheBoyConor

Board Walker wrote: »

Belmond i'd say is about it.

The Belmont are out of action now and will probably never run again. They will most likely get the chop.

They were refurbished poorly anyway. Finishes weren't great. I think Belmont massively underestimated the costs of refurbishing and running the stock.

Del.Monte

TheBoyConor wrote: »

The Belmont are out of action now and will probably never run again. They will most likely get the chop.

They were refurbished poorly anyway. Finishes weren't great. I think Belmont massively underestimated the costs of refurbishing and running the stock.

Where did you et this information from?

goingnowhere

Belmond plans to export them for use elsewhere. Refurb as well as the interior is very Irish specific. These guys are no fools, they run 7 tourist trains globally including the Orient Express.

Mechanically they are very good condition, they are young and relatively low mileage as Mk3 coaches go. There were some issues with the sleeping cars, they are not air conditioned which was a point of complaint.

TheBoyConor

That is the word going around the Irish railways past and present facebook group.

I don't hold much hope of them being exported. They'd have to be re-bogied and probably innumerable other modifications to run on the continental network. The interior refurb is also going to have to be redone as it'll be out of kilter with whatever else they use.

And most importantly, they are presumably stored out under the elements. The Irish damp will make short work of the interiors in one winter - they have used a lot of fabrics.

My money is on them being out in the open for the foreseeable future (covid won't help their market), followed by the same fate as the rest of the Mk 3 - the cutters torch - when it is realised that they are rotted beyond use.

Well if they are no fools, then why did their Grand Hibernian go down the pan? The misjudged it.

They are a tour operator. I wonder why they are bothering with owning and maintaining stock themselves, they would be fleeced. They should be just hiring out stock from a railway operator for a fee. and then let the railway company manage all the usual ins and outs of operating and maintaining the stock.

L1011

Because no railway operator has the stock they need and leasing custom stuff is a false "saving"?

TheBoyConor

A nice description of the MkIII executive coaches.....

I was fortunate to have worked the maroon liveried Executive train from Athlone to Ballina on Wednesday 15/08/01 taking over from the Heuston Guard at Athlone platform 2 at 07:45 that morning,
The Executive train had departed Heuston Station at 06:10 and had been marketed as the"Radio train"and had over 100 passengers on board,all en route to the Ballina Salmon festival for the day,arrival at Ballina station was noted at 10:13,
The train consisted of loco 219 with EGV 7602,Exec coach 7161,Exec coach 7162,Citygold coach 7133,Standard Mk3 coach 7157 and dining car 7401 at the rear,
The horseshoe shaped bar was fitted to 7161 at one end of the coach,with a small wooden dance floor taking over most of the remainder of the coach with seats fitted lengthways along both sides of the floor under the windows,
At the other end of 7161 there was a DJ box fitted where music was played and a commentary given along/about the route,
The other coach 7162 was fitted with 2+1 wide seating with tables-where meals were usually served from the dining car,giving an at seat service to passengers,
In later years I remember on occasions and in particular on Bank holiday weekends seeing 7162 added to Mayo line Mk3 sets to increase them to 9 piece's from the Friday to the following Tuesday,it would be normally added to the set between the EGV and dining car,Otherwise both Executive coaches were parked at the carriage sidings at Heuston when not required
I also have both model Mk3 Executives,which are fine models-and would be a great addition to any Irish themed layout-Maximum train size for an Executive special was between four to six coaches.
Lovely photo Eamonn of them crossing the viaduct.

Del.Monte

In the unlikely event that Belmond do not remove their stock, CIE should take back on their books but that is a quantum leap of imagination that is quite beyond them or the Republic's numerous tourist bodies.

prinzeugen

TheBoyConor wrote: »

.

Well if they are no fools, then why did their Grand Hibernian go down the pan? The misjudged it.

They are a tour operator. I wonder why they are bothering with owning and maintaining stock themselves, they would be fleeced. They should be just hiring out stock from a railway operator for a fee. and then let the railway company manage all the usual ins and outs of operating and maintaining the stock.

They didn't misjudge anything. From what I understand the train was booked solid for 2020 and 2021. Then Covid arrived.

It makes sense for them to own and maintain their own stock.
There are horror stories from the mid 80s onwards from the UK regarding BR charter stock and the charges etc.

goingnowhere wrote: »

International set was a lick of paint, conversion to 3 phase power, IE spec doors (it already have a similar version), push pull wiring and Alstom bogies. The interior retained some of its BREL decor

The International stock had a varient of the BREL T4 as fitted to the UK Mk3 DVTs & Class 158s.

goingnowhere

The international set had the same bogie as the failed Nightstar sleeper trains for the Channel Tunnel

Its quite different to the T4, more like a BP20 it has different shaped frame and 1 damper per primary suspension spring, the yaw damper sticks out and the secondary airbag is quite low. Where as the T4 has a single damper over the axle box and secondary airbag is higher in the frame.

Clearly from the BR school of research but was Metro Cammel of Birmingham who were gobbled up by Alstom

prinzeugen

goingnowhere wrote: »

The international set had the same bogie as the failed Nightstar sleeper trains for the Channel Tunnel

Its quite different to the T4, more like a BP20 it has different shaped frame and 1 damper per primary suspension spring, the yaw damper sticks out and the secondary airbag is quite low. Where as the T4 has a single damper over the axle box and secondary airbag is higher in the frame.

Clearly from the BR school of research but was Metro Cammel of Birmingham who were gobbled up by Alstom

Its a version of the T4. The fact it does not look the same means nothing.
Many items inboard on the UK version are outboard on others due to the wider loading gauge.

The BT10 supplied to Australia and China are good examples. Inside out Mk3 bogies.

I have a set of original drawings from Inchicore. They are T4 variants.

UK Mk3 TSO 12140 used the same.

http://www.traintesting.com/M12140_Mk3_coach.htm

Isambard

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That is the word going around the Irish railways past and present facebook group.

I don't hold much hope of them being exported. They'd have to be re-bogied and probably innumerable other modifications to run on the continental network. The interior refurb is also going to have to be redone as it'll be out of kilter with whatever else they use.

And most importantly, they are presumably stored out under the elements. The Irish damp will make short work of the interiors in one winter - they have used a lot of fabrics.

My money is on them being out in the open for the foreseeable future (covid won't help their market), followed by the same fate as the rest of the Mk 3 - the cutters torch - when it is realised that they are rotted beyond use.

Well if they are no fools, then why did their Grand Hibernian go down the pan? The misjudged it.

They are a tour operator. I wonder why they are bothering with owning and maintaining stock themselves, they would be fleeced. They should be just hiring out stock from a railway operator for a fee. and then let the railway company manage all the usual ins and outs of operating and maintaining the stock.

re-bogieing is quite straightforward if you can source suitable standard gauge bogies. But the thing is there are any amount of stored UK coaches and it might be easier to start again with these if the Irish ones need a high degree of refurbishment.Probably the same applies to most countries. I can't see a future for them

Del.Monte

Isambard wrote: »

re-bogieing is quite straightforward if you can source suitable standard gauge bogies. But the thing is there are any amount of stored UK coaches and it might be easier to start again with these if the Irish ones need a high degree of refurbishment.Probably the same applies to most countries. I can't see a future for them

Not even operated by CIE?

TheBoyConor

Del.Monte wrote: »

Not even operated by CIE?

Lol. That's a good one🀪🀪

Del.Monte

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Lol. That's a good one����

I know.