Stepping up from 1 gallon to 5 gallons of wine - some questions

redser7

Hi,
So I have 8 different brews on the go (2 x whole fruit, ribena, 2 x fruit teabags, 3 x Supermarket juice WOWs) and they are all in 1 gallon batches. Cracks knuckles, now I'd like to think about making bigger batches to build up a good stock, probably 5 gallons.
I have this 30 litre brewferm fermenter which is airtight ...
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewingfermentation-bucket-brewferm-30-l-graduated-2215-p.asp

I'm going to try one of those WOWs based on wgj and orange juice first. The plan it to use this fermenter for both the primary and secondary fermenter. When the gravitu gets to 1 I'll rack into another container I have (but it has no lid) then wash out and sanitise the brewferm and transfer back into that to continue and finally stabilise and clear. The recipe I have is quick (2 months to drinking but better if left to age).
The big question I have is about headspace for the secondary and latter stages. Obviously I will have a good few litres headspace. Would this be bad for oxidation? Or would it be ok if I chuck in 5 campden tablets as it is a quick brewing recipe?
How do people go about making large batches of wine? I dont have enough demijohns to transfer into.

Thanks for any advice!

BeerNut

redser7 wrote: »

The big question I have is about headspace for the secondary and latter stages. Obviously I will have a good few litres headspace. Would this be bad for oxidation?

No, fermenters don't need to be airtight. For one thing, the fermentation process leaves a blanket of CO2 on the surface of the liquid. All the lid is for is to stop flies and the like getting in.

redser7

Thanks Beernut. But once the ferment stops and I add campden tablet, sorbate and finings the CO2 production will stop. That's my worry.

Here the recipe and method, maybe I'm not explaining it well ...

1 litre carton Del Monte 100% pure orange juice.
1 litre carton Tesco’s pure pressed white grape juice.
1½ lb sugar.
1 tsp nutrient
G.P. yeast
½ tsp tannin
1 tsp Pectic Enzyme
1 tsp glycerine
Water to 1 gallon

Desolve sugar in a pint or so of boiling water.

Stir all the ingredients into 1½ pints cold water till well mixed and aerated.

Top up to 1 gallon, check initial S.G. which should be about 1.090 and adjust if necessary.

Ferment as usual under air lock. Rack at 1.000 (or ferment to dry and back sweeten) and add 1 crushed Campden tablet plus potassium sorbate.

Clear as per usual and bottle, the wine is ready for immediate consumption but will improve with time.

BeerNut

Ah. Well it's not a subject I know a whole lot about.

I can't imagine you'll get a bad oxidation effect just by leaving it sitting out. And I doubt a lid will make a whole lot of difference either way.

redser7

No worries, thanks BeerNut

sharingan

redser7 wrote: »

I have this 30 litre brewferm fermenter which is airtight ...
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewingfermentation-bucket-brewferm-30-l-graduated-2215-p.asp

Its a fine fermenter. Own it myself, and wish I standardised on it.

When the gravitu gets to 1 I'll rack into another container I have (but it has no lid) then wash out and sanitise the brewferm and transfer back into that to continue and finally stabilise and clear.

I have done a lot of racking with big batches and small batches (also large fermenters to demijohns). I have come to the same conclusion as you - rack back into your best fermenter with a tap.

The big question I have is about headspace for the secondary and latter stages. Obviously I will have a good few litres headspace. Would this be bad for oxidation? Or would it be ok if I chuck in 5 campden tablets as it is a quick brewing recipe?

The campden tablets wont do anything for your oxidation, as they yeast will be dead and the oxygen left in the headspace. Some people recommend that you top up the fluid with more fermentables and let the yeast munch away all of the remaining O2.

Racking will introduce oxygen and kick off the sluggish yeast again anyway. I have never topped up, I have used campden tablets in the past (to good effect). But nowadays I prefer to bottle condition (fizzy) wines.

How do people go about making large batches of wine? I dont have enough demijohns to transfer into.

What you are doing now - 2 fermenters. Its way easier at bottling time. Spare DJs can be used to bottle into as well (if like me you dont have enough wine bottles that can take pressure).

redser7

Thanks a million Sharingan, that's just what i was looking for.
But what do you mean when you say "But nowadays I prefer to bottle condition (fizzy) wines". Do you rack straight to bottle and let clear there? Do you need champaign bottles?
I was thinking a bit more and might try making up say 29 litres, almost the full capacity of the fermenter. Then just after adding the yeast I'll syphon off a demijohn's worth and ferment that separately. That should give me a safe head so the airlock wont get clogged up. Then I can use the demijohn to top up the fermenter for secondary. Should cut the O2 level right down.
btw I think YOU recommended that fermenter to me So thanks for that, it is a handy one alright.

sharingan

redser7 wrote: »

But what do you mean when you say "But nowadays I prefer to bottle condition (fizzy) wines". Do you rack straight to bottle and let clear there? Do you need champaign bottles?

No, I always rack a wine to another vessel, let it clear there before bottling. Then at bottle time I prime it with sugar and allow it to bottle condition, the same way you would do a beer. No more O2 to oxidise, no O2 for acetobacteria to sour your wine etc. It is a good way to preserve it.

The kind of bottles you need depend on how strong you want to carbonate it. Champagne bottles, with corks and cages are essential for heavy carbonation (say 2 teaspoons of sugar). Other than that, I prime to regular beer carbonation if I am using bottles that are strong enough for beer. That includes most bail top/flip top bottles that you can get. Some commercial bail top bottles (like fischer or grolsch) are tough as hell and can take champagne carbonation.

However the goal here is not to make super bubbly wine (which is sometimes fun) it is to preserve the wine.

I was thinking a bit more and might try making up say 29 litres, almost the full capacity of the fermenter. Then just after adding the yeast I'll syphon off a demijohn's worth and ferment that separately.

Sounds messy. You are also messing about with your wine when it is at greatest risk of infection. Fill up to about 28 litres instead, to leave some room for krausen. Don't worry about the O2, the yeast will consume all of it.

If you gum up an airlock with a blow out, pull it out, clean it, sterilise it and pop it back in. If the krausen is strong enough to blow through it, it is strong enough to protect the ferment from nasties (it is CO2 bubbles after all).

btw I think YOU recommended that fermenter to me So thanks for that, it is a handy one alright.

And I only got my affiliate program sorted out last weekend. Sigh.

redser7

Thanks again Sharingan, all great info, much appreciated.

kkorky

HI, im new to this brewing but wondering has anybody used the 19ltr office water bottles for brewing wine,ive got 2 and am thinkin of using them.
thanks in advance

redser7

Was wondering the same thing. It says on the bottles not to be used for anything else. But that might be just to stop people taking them, or not. ??

kkorky

read posts last night on brew site, reckons if it says 7 on bottle that it should be fine but not used for many bres,most those water bottles are 7. i got mine from water factory and told him wat i wanted them for and he said they will be fine

Khannie

Yeah, they should be fine.

sharingan

kkorky wrote: »

HI, im new to this brewing but wondering has anybody used the 19ltr office water bottles for brewing wine,ive got 2 and am thinkin of using them.
thanks in advance

I have. If you check the PET symbol number at the bottom of the vessel, you can check online about how safe it is.

Alcohol will leech chemicals out of the plastic more than water though. So they could be safe for water, but not brewing.

Also, they are a bitch to clean. I have spoiled ginger beer because I couldn't scrub them right.

Unless you are really hard up, i would buy a proper fermenter instead, they are not incredibly pricey and they are way more practical.