Vettel for Ferrari

Terrontress

BBC are claiming, with numerous caveats, that Vettel is going to Ferrari in 2014.

I can't see why he would if RBR have given him 2, possibly 3, successive titles.

And why would Ferrari want him if they have Alonso?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/formula1/19941541

smellslikeshoes

Nothing really new in that since it was reported during the summer is there?
It's basically him putting an alternative in place if RBR make a pig of a car next year and he uses a performance clause to get out of contract. Pretty smart move really and just shows how sought after he is right now that it's something Ferrari would sign up to.

Frank Bullitt

Would be interesting to see it happen, It would also be a huge gamble fro Vettel to leave a team that is built around him, to go to one that is built around another driver.

the culture of deference

Gintonious wrote: »

Would be interesting to see it happen, It would also be a huge gamble fro Vettel to leave a team that is built around him, to go to one that is built around another driver.

He is keeping options open with new 2014 regs and rules coming in.

Daniel S

Can't believe I'm using this as a source, but:

http://www.joe.ie/sports/formula-1/turns-out-sebastian-vettel-might-not-be-joining-ferrari-after-all-0029336-1

Daniel S

Daniel S wrote: »

Can't believe I'm using this as a source, but:

http://www.joe.ie/sports/formula-1/turns-out-sebastian-vettel-might-not-be-joining-ferrari-after-all-0029336-1

Just noticed this also:

Red Bull are obviously determined not to let go of the Austrian without a fight, but there also tends to be no smoke without fire in these cases, so we wouldn’t rule out anything yet.

:rolleyes:

De Hipster

Daniel S wrote: »

Can't believe I'm using this as a source, but:

http://www.joe.ie/sports/formula-1/turns-out-sebastian-vettel-might-not-be-joining-ferrari-after-all-0029336-1

Shocking attention to detail:

Alonso’s move to Ferrari, where he would likely link up with the brilliant but temperamental Fernando Alonso, would appear to be news to Ferrari chairman Luca di Montezemolo, who raised fairly understandable concerns about having two high profile and incredibly competitive drivers on the same team.

Slutmonkey57b

I've always had a few problems with this story.

1) Why would Alonso, who is open about wanting #1 status at any team, accept Vettel into his team?

2) Why would Vettel, who loves winning, leave the best team in the paddock for a worse one?

It never made any sense at all.

Myrddin

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

2) Why would Vettel, who loves winning, leave the best team in the paddock for a worse one?

It never made any sense at all.

There would have to be more variables, like the new engines, maybe staying with/moving away from Newey etc

smellslikeshoes

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I've always had a few problems with this story.

1) Why would Alonso, who is open about wanting #1 status at any team, accept Vettel into his team?

2) Why would Vettel, who loves winning, leave the best team in the paddock for a worse one?

It never made any sense at all.

This as far as I can tell isn't him signing a contract that he is going to 100% be at Ferrari in 2014, it's basically a contract saying to Vettel that there will be a seat there for you in 2014 if you choose to leave RBR and are able to break RBR contract because of performance clauses. This doesn't mean that he's just gonna walk away from a world beating RBR, it's just leaving him the option to get out after next year if 2013 doesn't go so well.

Also as far as Alonso not wanting Vettel as a team mate, never under estimate the confidence of a F1 driver. They all think they are the best in the world.

Slutmonkey57b

Alonso does think he's the best in the world. That's why he knows that having a competitive teammate wastes energy that is better spent building up one side of the garage.

juan.kerr

Seemingly Alonso didn't want Hamilton as teammate but does want Vettel.

Everyone is assuming ettel would be Alonso teammate. I wonder are Ferrari entirely happy with Alonso? They bought out the last year of Raikkonens contract so there is precendent.

Myrddin

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Alonso does think he's the best in the world..

He's right

Klaas

I think Vettel will eventually replace Alonso. But not now or in the near future. But the question of the friend above is correct. "Why would Vettel, who loves winning, leave the best team in the paddock for a worse one?". Vettel has the best car in F1, which is constantly evolving. Why leave it for something worse?

juan.kerr

EnterNow wrote: »

He's right

Best Ferrari driver, maybe. Best in F1? No way.

Myrddin

juan.kerr wrote: »

Best Ferrari driver, maybe. Best in F1? No way.

Ok

frostie500

juan.kerr wrote: »

Best Ferrari driver, maybe. Best in F1? No way.

I dont think anyone else would have been able to drag that Ferrari to the championship lead for most of the season. it was rubbish at the start of the year

Andrew76

Klaas wrote: »

I think Vettel will eventually replace Alonso. But not now or in the near future. But the question of the friend above is correct. "Why would Vettel, who loves winning, leave the best team in the paddock for a worse one?". Vettel has the best car in F1, which is constantly evolving. Why leave it for something worse?

He hasn't had the best car all season though - if anything, rule changes and the loss of the exhaust blown diffuser might have shown him how short lived dominance can be.

Maybe he's thinking he'd be content with 3 titles with RB (assuming he wins this year) or even a bonus of 4 titles if he wins next year too. Maybe he also wants to pit himself against the best before Alonso retires?

juan.kerr

frostie500 wrote: »

I dont think anyone else would have been able to drag that Ferrari to the championship lead for most of the season. it was rubbish at the start of the year

Hamilton or Vettel could have easily done so. All of the teams have had their ups and downs, so I think the fan boys are overstating the Alonso factor. He was lucky to have had no DNFs until recently and he benefitted from other drivers DNFs / misfortune.

Current standings are certainly more representative, and the Ferrari car isn't that far behind the Red Bull (if it even is), certainly not in Massa's hands on Sunday anyway.

Ferrari seem to have got into the habit of down playing the car and praising Alonso, I think that they got away with this while Massa was underperforming but won't now he's back on form.

Frank Bullitt

juan.kerr wrote: »

Hamilton or Vettel could have easily done so. All of the teams have had their ups and downs, so I think the fan boys are overstating the Alonso factor. He was lucky to have had no DNFs until recently and he benefitted from other drivers DNFs / misfortune.

Current standings are certainly more representative, and the Ferrari car isn't that far behind the Red Bull (if it even is), certainly not in Massa's hands on Sunday anyway.

Ferrari seem to have got into the habit of down playing the car and praising Alonso, I think that they got away with this while Massa was underperforming but won't now he's back on form.

No chance Vettel or Hamilton would have, they had a better car at the start of the season, and for most of it after as well, and only one of them recently overtook Alonso in the standings.

If anything, people don't give Alonso enough respect.

juan.kerr

Gintonious wrote: »

No chance Vettel or Hamilton would have, they had a better car at the start of the season, and for most of it after as well, and only one of them recently overtook Alonso in the standings.

If anything, people don't give Alonso enough respect.

Of course they would have. Button too probably.

How did Alonso do alongside Hamilton at McLaren in Hamiltons rookie year again?

Max_Charger

juan.kerr wrote: »

Hamilton or Vettel could have easily done so. All of the teams have had their ups and downs, so I think the fan boys are overstating the Alonso factor. He was lucky to have had no DNFs until recently and he benefitted from other drivers DNFs / misfortune.

Current standings are certainly more representative, and the Ferrari car isn't that far behind the Red Bull (if it even is), certainly not in Massa's hands on Sunday anyway.

Ferrari seem to have got into the habit of down playing the car and praising Alonso, I think that they got away with this while Massa was underperforming but won't now he's back on form.

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frostie500

juan.kerr wrote: »

Hamilton or Vettel could have easily done so. All of the teams have had their ups and downs, so I think the fan boys are overstating the Alonso factor. He was lucky to have had no DNFs until recently and he benefitted from other drivers DNFs / misfortune.

Current standings are certainly more representative, and the Ferrari car isn't that far behind the Red Bull (if it even is), certainly not in Massa's hands on Sunday anyway.

Ferrari seem to have got into the habit of down playing the car and praising Alonso, I think that they got away with this while Massa was underperforming but won't now he's back on form.

In 2009 when the McLaren was off the pace Hamilton didnt mount a championship charge. I've no doubt that Vettel and Hamilton would have won races in the Ferrari but to be consistent enough to challenge for the title, I just dont see it.

I've talked to lots of people in the paddock and every single one of them was in awe of Alonso's performances this year. Back in Spain when he put it on the front row the paddock was shocked by it and at Singapore it was clear that while Ferrari had a strong period mid-season (before McLaren launched their major upgrade) there was little doubt that Alonso was the driver of the year.

I wont dispute that he maximised the fact that other drivers had retirements but the fact is that he was consistent enough to open a commanding lead in the championship chase before his recent races where it was pretty clear his Ferrari was off the pace and he had to push really hard

juan.kerr

Commanding lead? Not so commanding if it disappeared after a couple of bad results.

frostie500

juan.kerr wrote: »

Commanding lead? Not so commanding if it disappeared after a couple of bad results.

A 39 point championship lead wasnt commanding in your books? Come on!

juan.kerr

frostie500 wrote: »

A 39 point championship lead wasnt commanding in your books? Come on!

10 years ago maybe, but not when it's 25 points for a win.

Plus let's not forget Alonso is the only one so far with a teammate that has had team orders enforced on them.

Alonso's lucky Ferrari look to be retaining Massa, otherwise Massa would have taken away his third place.

frostie500

juan.kerr wrote: »

10 years ago maybe, but not when it's 25 points for a win.

Plus let's not forget Alonso is the only one so far with a teammate that has had team orders enforced on them.

Alonso's lucky Ferrari look to be retaining Massa, otherwise Massa would have taken away his third place.

Before the Belgium GP Alonso was 44 points ahead of Vettel which is almost two full race wins worth of points. Like I said before with the dog of a car that the Ferrari was for most of the season that was an amazing achievement but since then it has consistently been the third fastest car on the grid with McLaren and Red Bull considerably faster week in and week out.

Frank Bullitt

juan.kerr wrote: »

Of course they would have. Button too probably.

How did Alonso do alongside Hamilton at McLaren in Hamiltons rookie year again?

I believe he finished on equal points, not bad considering he was at odds with the management for half the year?

Button had a car that had race winning pace mid season, and where was he finishing?

Myrddin

juan.kerr wrote: »

He was lucky to have had no DNFs until recently and he benefitted from other drivers DNFs / misfortune.

Ah I see, much like Vettel so?

juan.kerr

frostie500 wrote: »

Before the Belgium GP Alonso was 44 points ahead of Vettel which is almost two full race wins worth of points. Like I said before with the dog of a car that the Ferrari was for most of the season that was an amazing achievement but since then it has consistently been the third fastest car on the grid with McLaren and Red Bull considerably faster week in and week out.

A few races in and Red Bull were being written off, all teams have had their ups and downs.

If the Red Bull was so great how come Vettel & Webber had won only 3 races in 13 and McLaren 2 in 10?

Put Hamilton and Alonso in the same car and what would happen? We only have to look back to 2007 to see. Rookie Hamilton beating double world champion Alonso, despite Alonso being directly involved in Spygate.

Myrddin

juan.kerr wrote: »

Put Hamilton and Alonso in the same car and what would happen? We only have to look back to 2007 to see.

So certain drivers arn't allowed to be suited to different car setups etc?

juan.kerr

Gintonious wrote: »

I believe he finished on equal points, not bad considering he was at odds with the management for half the year?

That means nothing. McLaren have been scrupulous in treating both drivers the same in recent years.

Hardly their fault he decided to get involved with Spygate and then try to blackmail McLaren into shafting Hamilton.

Frank Bullitt

juan.kerr wrote: »

A few races in and Red Bull were being written off, all teams have had their ups and downs.

If the Red Bull was so great how come Vettel & Webber had won only 3 races in 13 and McLaren 2 in 10?

Put Hamilton and Alonso in the same car and what would happen? We only have to look back to 2007 to see. Rookie Hamilton beating double world champion Alonso, despite Alonso being directly involved in Spygate.

Put Hamilton and Alonso in the same car over one lap and Hamilton has it, over the course of a season then it's Alonso, simple as that.

And again, comparing the 2007 situation isn't as simple as that, read into it more and you will understand why.

juan.kerr

EnterNow wrote: »

So certain drivers arn't allowed to be suited to different car setups etc?

The problem here is that some people can't resist blowing smoke up Alonso's arse.

When he does well it's his talent, when he does badly it's the car or the team to blame.

Perfect example is 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

juan.kerr

Gintonious wrote: »

Put Hamilton and Alonso in the same car over one lap and Hamilton has it, over the course of a season then it's Alonso, simple as that.

And again, comparing the 2007 situation isn't as simple as that, read into it more and you will understand why.

See my comment above. Alonso conspired with De La Rosa and tried to blackmail McLaren because he wanted McLaren to force Hamilton to play second fiddle to him. What have I missed?

Myrddin

juan.kerr wrote: »

The problem here is that some people can't deal with how good he is

I completely agree

frostie500

juan.kerr wrote: »

A few races in and Red Bull were being written off, all teams have had their ups and downs.

If the Red Bull was so great how come Vettel & Webber had won only 3 races in 13 and McLaren 2 in 10?

I can only speak for myself but I never ruled out Vettel and consistently said that this section of races was going to be when we would see the Red Bull start to dominate. The season has ebbed and flowed with McLaren having the faster car on the balance of the season and then Red Bull having proven to be their closest challenger with Ferrari having some very strong races mid season and the rest having been Alonso getting as much as possible from races.

Red Bull have led the Constructors' Championship pretty much for the whole season so any argument saying that they have been overlooked is ridiculous

juan.kerr wrote: »

Put Hamilton and Alonso in the same car and what would happen? We only have to look back to 2007 to see. Rookie Hamilton beating double world champion Alonso, despite Alonso being directly involved in Spygate.

But that's completely different to what I was discussing earlier when I said when the car isnt perfect Alonso has consistently shown what he can do. The 2007 McLaren was the best car on the grid and Hamilton was a pretty experienced rookie with well in excess of 20,000 km of F1 experience as well as having worked with McLaren's F1 team for over two years so he was integrated quite well before he made his debut.

In saying that Alonso dealt with the threat from Hamilton exceptionally poor in 2007 and couldnt handle that McLaren had-in his eyes decieved him. And how was Fernando implicated directly in Spygate? Or rather how was he more involved than Hamilton or de la Rosa?

It wasnt the drivers that were the main players in spygate it was nigel Stepney.

juan.kerr

EnterNow wrote: »

I completely agree

If you're going to be a d**k and start blatantly misquoting me then I'm out.

Myrddin

juan.kerr wrote: »

If you're going to be a d**k and start blatantly misquoting me then I'm out.

Ah for god sake learn to have a laugh :rolleyes:

Frank Bullitt

juan.kerr wrote: »

See my comment above. Alonso conspired with De La Rosa and tried to blackmail McLaren because he wanted McLaren to force Hamilton to play second fiddle to him. What have I missed?

And what was said after it? “Competitive animals know no limits”, summing up Alonso perfectly.

If McLaren had given him No.1 status then they would have won the WDC that year, no question. He never tried to "shaft" Hamilton, he wanted to beat everyone in the field, which includes his teammate.

frostie500

juan.kerr wrote: »

See my comment above. Alonso conspired with De La Rosa and tried to blackmail McLaren because he wanted McLaren to force Hamilton to play second fiddle to him. What have I missed?

Did Pedro not stay with McLaren for another couple of seasons as test driver? So clearly the blackmail mustnt have been too strong. None of the drivers did anything wrong in Spygate. The issue was with Stepney (and the McLaren design office.) Give any driver the data that they had on the Ferrari and they would have looked to use for their own competitive advantage....and guess what Hamilton got the advantage of it as well!

donspeekinglesh

frostie500 wrote: »

The 2007 McLaren was the best car on the grid and Hamilton was a pretty experienced rookie with well in excess of 20,000 km of F1 experience as well as having worked with McLaren's F1 team for over two years so he was integrated quite well before he made his debut.

As well as a season's racing in tires far more similar to the 2007 tires than Alonso had used in 2006.

ratedR

To get this thread back on track, I could see Vettel moving to Ferrari. Why not ?
He could very easily be 4 time World Champion by that stage. He may fancy another challenge at a new team.

Apparently he's a fan of stats and history, so I'd imagine the lure of driving for, and possibly winning titles for the most famous of all F1 teams would tempt him.

And if he does go, I bet Hamilton will be sick that he signed a 3 year deal with Mercedes...

Myrddin

ratedR wrote: »

And if he does go, I bet Hamilton will be sick that he signed a 3 year deal with Mercedes...

Performance clause?

antodeco

EnterNow wrote: »

Performance clause?

If Mercedes dont make a dog of a car, I wonder does it kick in? Red Bull simply being quicker doesnt make it a performance situation in Mercedes I would imagine?