Studying Zoology In Ireland

Galvasean

Hi folks. You may have noticed that I haven't been on the boards much lately. To keep it short, I've been having a midlife crisis.
Anyways, I have decided that I want to retrain myself and move into the field of zoology as I feel I'd be happy there.
Since there are a lot off knowledgeable folk on this particular forum I want to ask have any of you got experience or recommendations as to where would be good to study Zoology on this island (as a mature student)? Also, what are the job prospects around these parts does anybody know?

Ziphius

Hi Galvasean,

What would you like to get out of studying zoology? Is an academic interest or are you looking for a particular career path? Perhaps if you think what area you are interested in it will help you choose between the universities.

Zoology is obviously a very diverse area of study. If you look at various departments in universities around the country you'll see that they have quite different areas of interest. Trinity, for example, does a lot on embryonic development.

In terms of jobs I doubt there are any in Ireland out side of academia. Also bear in mind that if you want to study Zoology in Ireland you'll need to do two years of undergraduate science before you can specialise.

Best of Luck.

Galvasean

Thanks for the reply Ziphius.
My main interest would be to work with animals directly in some form of zookeeper/animal handler in a wildlife park or zoo. I know they aren't the easiest jobs to get so I'm thinking zoology degree of some description would give me the knowledge required to have a 'competetive advantage' when applying for such. I know you can volunteer to gain work experience in said fields, so perhaps that's the best way in?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

F.R.

Galvasean wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Ziphius.
My main interest would be to work with animals directly in some form of zookeeper/animal handler in a wildlife park or zoo. I know they aren't the easiest jobs to get so I'm thinking zoology degree of some description would give me the knowledge required to have a 'competetive advantage' when applying for such. I know you can volunteer to gain work experience in said fields, so perhaps that's the best way in?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

If you want to work in a wildlife park or directly with animals you want a degree in animal management not a degree in zoology. AFAIK this degree is not offered by any university in Ireland. One example from England.

Ziphius

Galvasean wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Ziphius.
My main interest would be to work with animals directly in some form of zookeeper/animal handler in a wildlife park or zoo. I know they aren't the easiest jobs to get so I'm thinking zoology degree of some description would give me the knowledge required to have a 'competetive advantage' when applying for such. I know you can volunteer to gain work experience in said fields, so perhaps that's the best way in?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Ok, there aren't a lot of options for this kind of work in Ireland I'm afraid. We really only have two zoos (Dublin and Fota) and I don't think they are hiring. Perhaps a degree in veterinary medicine would be more beneficial than zoology.
Volunteering is probably a good idea. It;s quite difficult to do in Dublin Zoo but perhaps and animal shelter may be easier.

Ziphius

Perhaps a bit off topic but I do know that the Natural History Museum is happy to take on volunteers in its store rooms. Lots of cool stuff in there.

Galvasean

Interesting. Thanks again guys. It's early days and I'm really only putting the feelers out there so your replies are really helpful.

F.R. wrote: »

If you want to work in a wildlife park or directly with animals you want a degree in animal management not a degree in zoology. AFAIK this degree is not offered by any university in Ireland. One example from England.

Found something which is similar (I think) in Cavan.
http://www.qualifax.ie/qf/QFPublic/?Mainsec=courses&Subsec=course_details&ID=29467

Galvasean

Ziphius wrote: »

Perhaps a bit off topic but I do know that the Natural History Museum is happy to take on volunteers in it's store rooms. Lot's of cool stuff in there.

Not off topic at all IMO, the NHM is one of the ideas bouncing about in my head at the moment. I'm sure such volunteering would be a great opportunity to learn.

Ziphius

Galvasean wrote: »

Not off topic at all IMO, the NHM is one of the ideas bouncing about in my head at the moment. I'm sure such volunteering would be a great opportunity to learn.

It's very interesting place. Though, naturally, you won't get an opportunity to work work. live animals

aidoh

It's great that you want to get into zoology but bear in mind (no pun intended) that at the end of your 4 year degree you'll probably get sucked into further research if you really enjoyed it. That's a great thing if it's something that you love but if you're more interested in going straight to work with animals you might find that you've wasted your time to be honest. Not that a zoology degree isn't useful outside research and academia - it's great if you intend to continue a career in biology but I don't think there's a market out there for graduates with knowledge specifically about animal biology. On the other hand, if you feel you'd really enjoy studying zoology for 4 years (you definitely would, it's great), you'll find that like any other science degree it equips you with a good understanding of transferable skills like experimental design and statistical analysis, literature searching, composing solid, well-presented arguments, lateral thinking and good organisational skills. Those are the types of things employers would be looking for and, if you gain those skills doing a field of science you really love then it might be worth it for that even if you don't intend on further research.

You could get in touch with some of these if you're more into volunteering for experience:

Dublin Zoo (take on volunteers around this time of year so if you hurry you might make it)
(www.dublinzoo.ie)

Fota Wildlife Park (No idea about this one, I've never even been there)
(www.fota.ie)

Irish Whale and Dolphin Group
(http://www.iwdg.ie)

Irish Wildlife Trust
(www.iwt.ie)

Biodiversity Ireland
(http://www.biodiversityireland.ie/)

EPA
(www.epa.ie)

Bat Conservation Ireland
(http://www.batconservationireland.org/)

Marine Institute
(http://www.marine.ie/Home/)

Irish Raptor Research Centre (I've never been but I heard it's deadly)
(http://www.eaglesflying.com/AboutUs.htm)

DSPCA
(http://www.dspca.ie/)

Birdwatch Ireland (Probably Ireland's most successful conservation group and they're always looking for volunteers to help record population numbers and stuff)
(www.birdwatchireland.ie)

National Parks and Wildlife Services
(www.npws.ie)


All of these would look for volunteers (not certain about NPWS - they employ through publicjobs.ie, and the EPA and Marine Institute usually only offer studentships to current undergrad. students in biology / environmental science) and there are plenty more organisations on the island that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Hope that helps a bit.

Galvasean

Thanks for all the links aidoh. I'll have to have a good read of them all tomorrow when I'm less sleepy.

Hollzy

It's very difficult to get volunteer work in Fota and Dublin Zoo. I did a week in Fota two years ago and have so far failed to get anything in Dublin Zoo. Marine Dimensions is looking for volunteers at the moment http://www.marinedimensions.ie/ and MISE (Mammals in a Sustainable Environment do occasional otter surveys and such www.miseproject.ie. I do volunteer work with both and really enjoy it (I'm trying to build up experience as I'm currently in second year science in Trinity).

Dogsbody_

I don't think there is any distinct advantage attending any particular university for zoology or equivalent course, they're all equally bad. If you insist on studying zoology probably best to attend a university in the city you prefer or is most cost effective.

If I was your guidance counsellor I'd like to establish your motivations for studying zoology in particular. Next I would assess your aspirations and ambitions. Most importantly I'd like to find out if what you hope to achieve by studying zoology in college will any way satisfy that.

For example, some extrovert, engergetic, intuitive people might find the very studious and academic nature of zoology very disappointing.

If I was to infer anything, that you would 'like to work with animals' you may find yourself a very disappointed and unfilled person in 10 years times.

OpenYourEyes

Dogsbody_ wrote: »

1post, says it all!

aidoh

Dogsbody_ wrote: »

I don't think there is any distinct advantage attending any particular university for zoology or equivalent course, they're all equally bad.

They definitely aren't. UCD and Trinity have great zoology / biology departments. Galway and UCC are very good as well.
Queen's is also very good if you're counting the north.
And by 'great' and 'very good' I mean they're internationally recognised, as is reflected in the University World Rankings every year.

You're a total spoofer. Don't give advice on a subject on which you clearly know nothing.

Dogsbody_

aidoh wrote: »

They definitely aren't. UCD and Trinity have great zoology / biology departments. Galway and UCC are very good as well.
Queen's is also very good if you're counting the north.
And by 'great' and 'very good' I mean they're internationally recognised, as is reflected in the University World Rankings every year.

You're a total spoofer. Don't give advice on a subject on which you clearly know nothing.

You are really not very intelligent at all. Does equally bad not equate to equally good? Is there more than one univeresity in ireland in the top 100 international universities? Furthermore, can quantify the role the zoology depts had in their ranking?

Basically you're trying to pretend that zoology in ireland is something of international merit. anyone who has spent any time in academia outside of this little cess pool would know this isn't the case.

how about you list for me the articles published in nature from an irish zoology dept? you can go back 10 years.

you should be reprimanded for trying to spoof the original poster into thinking there is any employment merit of reading a zoology degree. he's better of doing a fetac course on animal handling.

OpenYourEyes

Dogsbody_ wrote: »

You are really not very intelligent at all. Does equally bad not equate to equally good? Is there more than one univeresity in ireland in the top 100 international universities? Furthermore, can quantify the role the zoology depts had in their ranking?

Basically you're trying to pretend that zoology in ireland is something of international merit. anyone who has spent any time in academia outside of this little cess pool would know this isn't the case.

how about you list for me the articles published in nature from an irish zoology dept? you can go back 10 years.

you should be reprimanded for trying to spoof the original poster into thinking there is any employment merit of reading a zoology degree. he's better of doing a fetac course on animal handling.

Emma Teeling has 3 papers in Science and 1 in Nature - and she not only works in UCD's Zoology department, but she got her degree in UCD's Zoology department! And she was just the first one that sprang to mind! I'm sure there's more in both UCD and other Irish Uni's too.

Either way, being published in Nature isn't the only way to decide on how superior/inferior a specific department or researcher is! There are hundreds of other journals with papers that are very informative and useful that are more specific than Nature or Science.

UCD's zoology department is very well respected and does a lot of work both in Ireland and with international collaborators. I don't know much about the other zoology departments in Ireland, but I've read plenty of papers about mammals from NUIG and birds from UCC. Waterford IT has some links to the national biodiversity data centre too I think, so I'd advise the OP to find out more about the research done at each University and use that to decide which he would rather do!

A lot of similarities between Dogsbody and Cambridge who posted in this thread with a ridiculously anti-zoology mindset!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056715903

If you're going to study zoology, it's probably most useful for ending up doing population surveying of birds/mammals etc., or genetic analyses or studying evolution. If you're more interested in getting "hands on" with animals, it mightnt be the best avenue to go down - not a bad avenue - but there's possibly something else that might be a bit better! Maybe try and get in touch with somehwere you'd like to work like Dublin Zoo and ask somebody there to recommend what degree or education they'd prefer keepers to have?

Hollzy

It's not really fair to paint all the universities with the one brush. Ireland actually has no university in the top 100 currently, another unfortunate side effect of the recession. Trinity still holds the lead nationally and managed to go up from 117 to 110 this year. UCD has fallen back quite a bit to 187. UCC has fallen back as well but NUIG has jumped forward significantly. Both are still in the three hundred plus zone though. It's important to note that this is a ranking of the university as a whole though so it's best to look at each zoology department in detail.

I can speak only for Trinity, being a student there but any of the zoology lecturers I've encountered have been fantastic and there seem to be a lot of opportunities provided to students. I would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone.

I think it's better to let others speak for the other colleges but from what I'm gathered, NUIG is the place to go if you want to specialise in marine biology.

There's no point criticising Ireland when the original post specifically asked for information about here. So let's all just share what we know and hopefully Galvasean will be able to make up their own mind about which path is best to go down.

aquina

Galvasean wrote: »

My main interest would be to work with animals directly in some form of zookeeper/animal handler in a wildlife park or zoo. I know they aren't the easiest jobs to get so I'm thinking zoology degree of some description would give me the knowledge required to have a 'competetive advantage' when applying for such. I know you can volunteer to gain work experience in said fields, so perhaps that's the best way in?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

A Bachelor degree (or similar) would definitely give you a competitive edge. Zoology is essentially studying animals and their interactions, mainly with the environment in which they live and other organisms. This involves subjects such as ecology, physiology, some form of microbiology etc etc. Most Zoology courses also include modules on interpreting data and scientific writing. As you can see it all gets very broad and very complicated!

BUT all of this extensive knowledge buts you in a better position, capable of providing the best care for the animal(s) in a captive environment. You will need to know about their behavior, ecology and physiology in order to increase their chances to "save the species", to sound over-dramatic!

If you want be a zookeeper I'd highly recommend a Zoology degree, doesn't have to be fancy but I definitely think it gives you a much better grounding than a "straight-into-the-workplace" type of job.

Hope I was somewhat helpful!

aquina

Hollzy wrote: »

Ireland actually has no university in the top 100 currently, another unfortunate side effect of the recession. Trinity still holds the lead nationally and managed to go up from 117 to 110 this year.

Trinity is 67th according to the QS rankings Don't know if these rankings are the most popular/most referred to though??

http://www.topuniversities.com/institution/trinity-college-dublin

Ziphius

Operation Wallacea might be worth looking into too.

It organises expeditions to various countries such as Indonesia, Honduras, and South Africa to research conservation and biodiversity. Many of my class used the opportunity to complete their research projects (or at least get their data) during the summer between our 3rd and 4th years.

I'm not sure if you have to be a university student to take part but the website mentions that sixth form students can also join in.

http://www.opwall.com/#

There are a few more organisations like this looking for volunteers. The Atlantic Whale Foundation is one.

http://www.awf-volunteeringabroad.org/index.html

Hollzy

aquina wrote: »

Trinity is 67th according to the QS rankings Don't know if these rankings are the most popular/most referred to though??
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Wow that's an impressive write up in that link! I was referring to the Times rankings, which I do think is generally more referred to. Starting to wish people tended towards the QS ones now though!

Mr. Boo

Hollzy wrote: »

...NUIG is the place to go if you want to specialise in marine biology....

I dunno, but perhaps...

I attended NUI for 3 years and became disillusioned with the (in my view) overly-theoretical approach they took to teaching marine ecology. I like a good bit of field work, practical experience, interrogating data I have collected myself, etc. I switched over to GMIT in the end (FW and Marine Ecology), and thought it was great. Loads of skills-based stuff (Modelling, GIS, Statistics), with fluffier things like conservation and animal behaviour theory. GMIT also has strong links with the Marine Institute, with good prospects of carrying out undergraduate projects in conjunction with staff research there.

I went on to complete an MSc and have started a PhD at a respected UK university (where incidentally, Irish students who were trained at undergraduate level in Irish universities are well represented).

Hollzy

Oh, really? I did hear that GMIT is better for field work actually, I forgot about that. And they have their own research boat, don't they?

Mr. Boo

Hollzy wrote: »

Oh, really? I did hear that GMIT is better for field work actually, I forgot about that. And they have their own research boat, don't they?

No, but due to their memorandum of understanding (or something like that) with the MI they get excellent access to research vessels. John Boyd at GMIT used to (and still does AFAIK) organise Science at Sea training which is available to all third level institutions in Ireland I think, but organised through GMIT. Dr Simon Berrow of the IWDG also lectures there now so they are expanding their research efforts into charismatic marine megafauna. There are also some excellent fisheries lecturers and research fellows on staff. Can't say enough about the place tbh. They do amazing things with limited resources.

BTW OP, I came back to education late-ish too, following a re-evaluation of the direction I was going. In my first year PhD now and really enjoying it.

aidoh

Mr. Boo wrote: »

fluffier things like conservation and animal behaviour theory.

Oi!
This is my postgrad area

Mr. Boo

aidoh wrote: »

Oi!
This is my postgrad area

Soz, no disrespect intended. I just meant a more theoretical approach was taken to teaching those modules at that institute at that time. My intention wasn't to make a sweeping statement about all animal behaviour scholars.

aidoh

That's a shame. If you did some practical work in the modules you might have enjoyed it.
I was only messing about being annoyed by the way but I appreciate your lovely post all the same haha.

SubBusted

Ziphius wrote: »

Ok, there aren't a lot of options for this kind of work in Ireland I'm afraid. We really only have two zoos (Dublin and Fota) and I don't think they are hiring.

What about Belfast Zoo? http://www.belfastzoo.co.uk/ZooHome/Careers/Careers.aspx

Ziphius

SubBusted wrote: »

What about Belfast Zoo? http://www.belfastzoo.co.uk/ZooHome/Careers/Careers.aspx

Yes, I was referring to the Republic of Ireland in my post but now I look back I see the OP meant the entire island of Ireland so I should have included Belfast too. All three are members of the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquariums (BIAZA). You can find a link to their members here: http://www.biaza.org.uk/find-a-zoo/ The website also has quite a good careers section: http://www.biaza.org.uk/careers/careers-in-zoos/

Also, I just remembered the Wexford Wildfowl Reserve. http://www.wexfordwildfowlreserve.ie/ They may be interested in volunteers too.

Edit just found a job advertisement for a trainee zookeeper position in Wales. It seems that good communication skills, public speaking ability, and enthusiasm are the key requirements. Full drivers license is essential while degree in Zoology (or related subject) is "desirable". Applications close on November 4. http://www.biaza.org.uk/news/715/101/Trainee-Zoo-Keeper/d,events/

OpenYourEyes

I think the Tayto Park Wildlife section has ex- Dublin Zoo and Fota keepers too, so that would be one potential place to add to the list!

steddyeddy

Sorry Galv! I was waiting for el trollo to vamos (My spanish needs working on). I didnt study Zoology here but I work in UCD in the conway institute as a biochemist but my under graduate degree was major and biochem with a minor in zoology (primatology). The zoology degree in UCD is brilliant by all accounts (as are the other colleges mentioned but I cant speak for them).

In UCD in first year you would be doing general biology and a bit of biomedical science. In second year you would pick three streams (eg genetics, biochemistry and zoology). The zoology component covers conservation genetics, animal behaviour (love it), animal form and function (a biochemical and physiological aproach to animal diversity) amongst other things.

If you like I can send you notes from some from those modules and the exams from any or all of those modules.

Regarding getting into college; the best ways imho are via the leaving cert points (unfortunatly 500 points now), mature entry or my favouraites UCD's access course. You complete a year long course and get into science or any area. Please get in touch if you need any more advise!

One of the points of this post is that a degree in zoology can also lead to work in other areas of biology.