Jobs Q: is the NYSB pointless

Blinked_Missed It

Just wondering if its pointless from a jobs perspective to take the NYSB. I don't have contacts in the US but is it of benefit in Ireland. Also wondering what other avenues of employment are available for BL's in Ireland. Only just called and things are seriously tough at the bar it appears. I don't have financial backing to spend 5yrs minimum building a practice, its just not there, I'm supporting myself on not very much with a part time job.

Also is the mediators accreditation worth a jot, a 4 day course cannot really be beneficial can it?

Anyone know the actual attrition % of the Irish Bar?

Any advice would be very very much appreciated.

MadsL

Blinked_Missed It wrote: »

Also is the mediators accreditation worth a jot, a 4 day course cannot really be beneficial can it?.

What qualification are you considering?

My wife has her Mediators Institute of Ireland Practicing Certificate; here are the qualification requirements;

http://www.themii.ie/certified-member.jsp

Then

To become an MII Practitioner Member you must firstly be a Certified Member. You will then have to complete a number of live cases/hours and fulfil further training and requirements as set by your Home Sector (see grid below). You should then submit for Practitioner Member assessment in line with MII Practitioner Member core competencies and, on successful completion of your assessment, complete your registration as a Practitioner Member.

She never got work as a mediator despite good connections. She does have non-lawyer friends that get mediations but the work is patchy. In her area of expertise, workplace mediation, her biggest complaint was employment laywers picking up the mediations despite being seriously underqualified (lack of practical workplace experience, HR backgrounds, and mediation skills)

It struck her that it was the age old problem of who you know. Existing firms would be consulted about a workplace issue and then when mediation came up would immediately do the "we can do that" thing.

Mediation should, imho, be restricted to professionally trained people with the appropriate background in the area that they intend to mediate in. Not be another thing that law firms figure out how to do on the fly.

Blinked_Missed It

Hi, thanks for the detailed reply, very much appreciated. This is the course I was considering which will only permit me to be considered a Certified member, not a Practitioner if I read correctly.

http://www.friarylaw-mediation.ie/mediation-training/civil-commercial-training/

Unfortunately your description of the situation falls right in line with my concerns in general, that it would become a situation where solicitors would drift net the pre-litigation ocean floor for work. It is understandable for struggling young solicitors/barristers who are desperate for work so you can't blame them but I see the heavyweight solicitors maybe taking their usual 75% share of the spoils soon enough.

If things get any bleaker for newbies in both professions they'll need flashlights to see a way through.

krd

Blinked_Missed It wrote: »

If things get any bleaker for newbies in both professions they'll need flashlights to see a way through.

Chin up

The darkest hour is just before the train comes...........No wait, I'm mixing up my metaphors. The darkest hour is just before dawn, and the light at the end of the tunnel is .....the train.


Use your imagination - I'm sure you know what is, and isn't legal. (By the way, if you're thinking of getting into the "immigration advocate" business - never ever ever meet your clients at the airport - and always have some kind of incendiary system to dispose of documents and laptops in a hurry - in an extreme hurry,,,,like "they're breaking down the door" hurry)

MadsL

Blinked_Missed It wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the detailed reply, very much appreciated. This is the course I was considering which will only permit me to be considered a Certified member, not a Practitioner if I read correctly.

http://www.friarylaw-mediation.ie/mediation-training/civil-commercial-training/

Unfortunately your description of the situation falls right in line with my concerns in general, that it would become a situation where solicitors would drift net the pre-litigation ocean floor for work. It is understandable for struggling young solicitors/barristers who are desperate for work so you can't blame them but I see the heavyweight solicitors maybe taking their usual 75% share of the spoils soon enough.

If things get any bleaker for newbies in both professions they'll need flashlights to see a way through.

Friary Law course was excellent according to the wife. Tough part is finding meditations to let you get your practitioners cert. She managed to get some through working damn hard for free for the MII steering committee.

However, do not expect to make a living solely from mediation, unless you have some amazingly specialised area of expertise or influence. Mediation should be hugely growing area, but people turn to legal firms first, and then consider mediation. Ergo, legal guys get all the work.

You could be well placed though if you are with a firm that has no mediator.

Good Luck.

Peregrinus

Blinked_Missed It wrote: »

Just wondering if its pointless from a jobs perspective to take the NYSB. I don't have contacts in the US but is it of benefit in Ireland.

The NYSB in itself is of no real benefit in Ireland. It's helpful in New York, of course, and if you practice in New York for a couple of years that might be of benefit in Ireland. But it's the experience that benefits you; the bar exam on its own is not a draw for Irish employers.

dats_right

OP, the BL qualification is far more marketable in this jurisdiction than the NYSB. I know you are just trying to think outside the box and get qualifications that will aid your career. However, in my view neither of those qualifications is going to give you much of an edge and will cost you quite a lot of money to pursue. As other posters, quite correctly point out, very few people actually get work as mediators and with the greatest respect a newly qualified BL is unlikely to get much work in the area.

I would suggest that if you want to make a career at the bar that you keep those hard earned dollars and try get whatever work you can. Mix with your colleagues, socialise with your colleagues, try get in with a few more senior barristers who might throw you a few crusts from time to time. Try meet a few solicitors, if you don't know any go to places where solicitors will be e.g. CPD talks, bar association meetings, etc. You could even consider researching some topical legal area and giving your own CPD talk for solicitors at a discounted rate or even for free. I am a solicitor so my advices to you might not be as good as you might get from another barrister but my suggestions would seem to me to make common sense.

In the meanwhile in order to keep yourself ticking over financially you should try get into one of the colleges either lecturing or tutoring law. Bear in mind the enormous amounts of places offering law courses, so it does not necessarily have to be one of the main universities or private colleges e.g. plc courses, night courses, business corses with a law component, etc. In addition you could give grinds to FE-1'rs, undergrads and Kings Inns entrance exam students. I did this myself when I was an apprentice and the money was quite good. I used to get €50 p/h but I don't know if that sort of money is still available.

If none of that appeals to you, you could consider going in-house. This can be difficult to get a foothold, but from colleagues who have taken the step very few of them regret it. For the most part, they seem to be well-paid, less stressed, enjoy shorter working hours and have a better work life balance in general. I work in private practice so cannot confirm any of this from first hand knowledge however.

I myself considered doing similar courses to yourself at the outset of my career and the institutions offering those types of courses are very effective at marketing and portraying themselves as the sure fire way to make your career succeed. In my view this is nearly entirely hot-air! In order to succeed at either branch of the profession you will need luck, determination, commitment and skill. Even then there are no guarantees. Best of luck in your future career, whatever it may hold.

Blinked_Missed It

Thanks to all for the replies and advice. I'm in a position where I may or may not go down this year (i'm aware term has begun but I have an offer of a master I've yet to take up) but I'm wondering whether doing the deviling year would be of great benefit to me in terms of gaining employment elsewhere, perhaps in the banking sector or whether a single year is of little benefit on a cv to a prospective employer. These days with the attrition at the bar (i'd love to know the real figures) I can't see a career being forged by someone like me with no financial backing but would a single year of deviling be of great benefit?

Is it suicide to take a year out before going down to do your 1st, and possibly only year at the bar?