Need urgent advice regarding this fireplace

CRM Ireland

Hi, Im currently renting a house and its fairly large and can be quite cold. There are 7 single radiators and 13 double radiators. They are seperated into two heating zones and all are heated using an oil burner in the garage. As you can imagine, its going through the oil like crazy.

I grew up with a coal fire with a back boiler, so the entire house used to be roasting and it was all provided by the fire in the living room. As this is a rental property, I dont want to spend a fortune buying and installing a stove with a back boiler.

I want a stove for the sitting room and Ive found one of those cheap Chinese ones on http://stovedeals.ie/12kW-stove.html . Now Im fully aware of the opinion on buying cheap goods, but please remember I may only be here for this winter, or one more after that, so the price at 340EUR is pretty good. If it doesnt last that long, I will send it back or accept the loss.

I've no idea about this kind of thing, so I was wondering if I can just put down a hearth and then plonk the stove on top and connect up a flue to the chimney and that's it. There is a balloon in the chimney, but I think I just need to deflate that and pull it down.

The chimney and fireplace has never been used, as you can see from the photos. The house is about 10 years old. Would the chimney need cleaning? I wouldn't think so, but thought best to ask the experts on here!

My main question, is what kind of flue I would need. When I think of my parents open fire, the smoke just gets sucked up the chimney. Its very simple. If there is a flue that directs the smoke under the chimney, it should get sucked up just the same way. Right? I would have thought it was that simple, but reading comments about being poisoned on here has made me a little sceptical.

Does the flue have to have some kind of seal once its under the chimney? I don't want to waste money putting a flue all the way up the chimney stack. If this was a long term solution, then perhaps I would, but its not.

I've been given permission to install a stove so long as its done correctly.

Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated as I want to order the stove later today or tomorrow.

Thanks

This is looking up the chimney stack, you can see the balloon.

Never been used or even finished properly.

Ive provided some measurements in inches, if that helps you tell me what angle/length of flue I would need.

CRM Ireland

Ive also just realised that the stove is a few mm narrower than the inner fireplace, the grey part that looks like cement. I just went in and measured and the entire stove would actually be able to be pushed right in, under the chimney. I can choose a top or a read flue. If I got the rear, I could just put a piece of flue straight up which would be literally right up the chimney for 1 metre.

That would be nice and simple, but would that seriously reduce the amount of heat actually coming out into the room? The stove would be almost hidden away because the fire is reasonable deep. Is it best to have the stove out, sort of make a bit of a feature out of the thing?

If I did put the stove right into the fireplace, there is literally only a couple of mm space each side. Would it being so close to the walls of the fire cause any damage?

CRM Ireland

BUMP.

Anyone?

goat2

why dont you just buy a couple garden pavers and sit the stove on that in front of the fireplace,
i say this as i have done that in a house that i have let, i got the smallest stove that carried a boiler to run four good size radiators and it is just beautiful the way it work, also you are leaving the best part of heat from stove go up the chimney, if you place it in where the fire used t o be, as i got one of those eco fans for the one i have front of fireplace in my own sitting rooms, it is so warm,
i also bought one of those chinese imports and nothing wrong with it is there a few yrs now, and is as good as day it was put in, everything is is good as the fellow who operate the thing, if you are dog rough with things they dont last, i expect it to last for about twenty yrs.

i do see you have wood floor, but you could sit double ruw of slabs and sit it on it and use the back outlet with one of those flexiflues to do the job, the flexiflue if you go right up to top of chimeny will c ost about 180 euro as that is what i paid for it, also i paid 400euro for the stove with boiler, which is heating the radiators, and when you start the fire the radiators start getting warm about 15 minuits after start, and house is cosy, tenant loves it and i told me that he is in heaven since i put it in for him. and he says it costs pennies rather than hundreds of euro such as oil to run

Robbie.G

You can't put in in the fireplace as the stove needs more clearance than a few mm.
If you put the stove in front of the fireplace you need to fit a hearth that the stove sits on and that hearth has be 225mm infront of the stove.You need to cut and remove the wooden floor the size of the hearth and fit it on a bed of sand and cement
Now that's all the easy bit now you have to fit the stove you can't have any 90 degree bends and have to leave means of cleaning the chimney and to remove the stove to clean the chimney isn't acceptable.
You can use a flue adaptor to a tee piece with a cleaning door and one last thing you can't have any horizontal pipe longer than 150mm

goat2

get the smallest stove you can find, the most, i used discountdepot.eu and found them to be the cheapest on the market,
they have a fine selection, i would say you could pick up one at under four hundred that would sit in where the fire should be

goat2

looking at the picture there, the wood that support the floor is nearly inside in the hearth, that look dangerous to me, why was it not filled in in cement and keeping the wood farther back, looks like a real fire hazard no matter what fire you put there, be it an open fire or stove,
you would want to have a word with landlord about that and getting a something safer done there, before you put anything there

CRM Ireland

goat2 wrote: »

looking at the picture there, the wood that support the floor is nearly inside in the hearth, that look dangerous to me, why was it not filled in in cement and keeping the wood farther back, looks like a real fire hazard no matter what fire you put there, be it an open fire or stove,
you would want to have a word with landlord about that and getting a something safer done there, before you put anything there

It is quite strange how close that is. The guy that owns this house is a builder, he built this house himself.

Ive ordered the stove now. It arrives on Monday. I have also bought a straight flue, which was going to go straight up the chimney, but I see now that I will have to get two 45 degree bends and have the stove further out into the room.

As a temporary measure, until I see about getting permission to start cutting up the floor, would it be safe to have the stove sitting on 2 pavings slabs on the wooden floor? How much heat actually radiates through 3-4inches of slab?

goat2

i worry about that wooden floor, you really have to speak to the owner and ask if it would be possible for that wood to be cut back and allow for slabs to be put down, yes i do use the paving slabs under stove, but they are sitting on cement floor and then we made just a little edging frame to make the whole thing look the part.

CRM Ireland

Ive been researching online and reading up on some info on many manufacturers websites. The general consensus seems to be that the stove should be 225mm from any combustible material. Obviously what Im worried about is the wooden floor. On the back of the stove I bought (it arrived about an hour or so ago) it has a plate saying 200mm minimum distance.

If I was to have 225mm thick paving, probably a few on top of each other, would that be safe? I mean the paving slabs actually in contact with the floor, sitting on top of it. I know it wont look attractive, all I really want to know is would that be safe, or still a fire risk.

I was in a garden centre near Ashbourne a few months back and they had this amazing wooden circular hut, all decked out in animal furs, with a big BBQ stove in the centre with a table around it. That BBQ mustve been very close to the building which was entirely made of wood. I wonder how they dealt with using it in such an obviously combustible area.

The stove is actually a little bit too big to fit inside the fireplace, the legs splay out a touch. I wasnt going to put it in there anyway, as othrs have pointed out, it needs more air around it.

CRM Ireland

After sitting there, staring at the stove and just taking in the entire picture, its now really clear Im going to have to cut away that floor. I wish I was allowed to swear on here, because its what I feel like screaming! The whole point of me doing this was to save myself some money because of the high cost of oil. By the time this is done, I will have spent a lot AND I will still have to buy fuel for the stove.

Yes indeed, not one of my better ideas at all.

If you look at the wood going straight into the fireplace, the three pieces that are supporting the weight of the floor. Is that something I can simply cut back? Would it be expected that the entire length of that wood would actually be resting on the ground? If I cut it back 2 foot or so, is there a chance the floor would collapse? Dont worry, Im not going to just get stuck into it with a saw, Ive dug myself a big enough hole wasting 400EUR on this stove. Im not ready to cause a total disaster! I just want to try and get some advice.

Apparently the builder who owns it was going to put a stove in himself, he just never got around to it. As Im reading up on the safety aspects of this, he clearly didnt plan very well ahead with this. Who in their right mind would put all that wood in and around the fireplace if you intended to use it for a stove? If you were not going to bother with a stove or fire, why even bother with a chimney which is just letting heat escape out the top and adding extra expense to the build. Baffles me!

goat2

i would advise you to speak to the landlord, and tell them your fears, there should be a cement base and cement surrounding the whole thing coming out a foot at least preferably eighteen inches,
landlord will see this stove as a plus for any other rentals he may have in the future in this house,
also you should not have to pay for the thing,
explain that the oil is killing your pocket and you cannot afford that kind of bill, that you would find it easier to keep a stove going,
i do have oil central heating and i only have it on about an hour altogether in the 24 hours, with the past week, and i have one of those stoves without the boiler, and it is so easy to keep, and gives out lots of heat, but i have it standing proud of the hearth, in front of fireplace as i want to get the best advantage from it, also the room above it is lively and cosy as the heat from top of stove is heating ceiling and insulation over it, so it is like floor heating for the room above it,
i dont agree with putting stove under chimney as that fantastic heat from top of stove is going up that chimney, and there is a fine percentage of heat gone in that,

CRM Ireland

This is the metal plate on the back of the stove.

It states that the floor temp is 60 degrees. What exactly does that mean?

Robbie.G

CRM Ireland wrote: »

This is the metal plate on the back of the stove.

It states that the floor temp is 60 degrees. What exactly does that mean?

What that means is that the temp under the stove and the legs of it can reach temps of 60 degrees a standard hearth on concrete 50mm thick is sufficient
And the 200mm is distance the stove has to be from anything on the backand sides

CRM Ireland

Thanks Robbie. Would that 60 °C be considered standard for the floor temp on a multi-fuel stove? Higher, lower than expected?

Im trying to calculate out exactly what I need to do to have this stove on a hearth on a wooden floor without having to cut the wood.

In another thread, someone posted a photo of their dog sitting next to their stove and it looks like its sitting on a hearth about 50-60mm thick straight on top of a wooden floor. Here is the photo below.

Robbie.G

CRM Ireland wrote: »

Thanks Robbie. Would that 60 °C be considered standard for the floor temp on a multi-fuel stove? Higher, lower than expected?

Im trying to calculate out exactly what I need to do to have this stove on a hearth on a wooden floor without having to cut the wood.

In another thread, someone posted a photo of their dog sitting next to their stove and it looks like its sitting on a hearth about 50-60mm thick straight on top of a wooden floor. Here is the photo below.

The hearth can't be put on top of the wooden floor it needs to be cut back and fitted on the concrete floor
On a open fire The heat can penetrate through the hearth 5"
Building regs say it has to be fitted as said
You have to comply with regs

CRM Ireland

So basically the setup in the above photo isnt complying with the regulations? I wonder if he knows the risk.