Copper BathTap nut jammed...how to unscrew/undo it??

paddy147

The fecking cold water tap nut under the bath tap is jammed soild.

The hot water nut came off no problems at all.I have the right tools for the job (I think so snayway).

But the cold nut is jammed solid.The previous plumber wrapped some sort of hessian stuff around the pipe threads and nut threads.

Its allmost to a point of me snapping it through the bath top,is thats stuck at the moment.

Any ideas or tips on how to free it up/undo it??

WD40,Blow Torch,Freezing it????

Its the copper nut in the pic that wont unscrew (not the black plastic nut).

Thanks.:)

aujopimur

A bit of heat is always a sure way to get these started, but be careful of the bath.

paddy147

aujopimur wrote: »

A bit of heat is always a sure way to get these started, but be careful of the bath.

Im a bit wary of the blow torch close to the fibreglass bath.

But do you rekon that the bit of heat on that joining nut would break the seal???

Billy Bunting

Did you try to tighten it, sometimes its easier and its enough to break the seal and get it undone, just a thought, desperate times, lol.

Outkast_IRE

Blow torch on the copper joint is the way i would always do it , just be careful of the flame direction and dont overdo it with the torch.

Must of done this 20 times on all types of baths , its a bitch of a job i hate doing them

Billy Bunting

The thought of Paddy in there with a blow lamp makes me shudder. :eek:

I told him on first post of original post that he would have trouble with that copper to iron and its a bitch of a job :P

He'll no doubt appriciate plumbers a little better now.

Robbie.G

Slacken the plastic backnut or split it lift the tap up and cut the threads with a hacksaw blade or a sabre tooth saw or grinder be careful not to damage the bath top surface.
It's a bitch of a job that's why it's so hard to get plumbers to do it and they charge a fortune to do it.
I've seen it take me a couple of hours to change a set of bath taps
Good luck

josealdo

Did you try WD40 and leave it soak overnight ?

aujopimur

paddy147 wrote: »

Im a bit wary of the blow torch close to the fibreglass bath.

But do you rekon that the bit of heat on that joining nut would break the seal???

Heat always works, or if you can get a good grip on the brass fitting and rotate the tap, probably easier with a second pair of hands.

josealdo

Electric heat gun . that would be ideal . i use one in work to break loctite threadlock on 2.5mm screws .

3ndahalfof6

This might sound silly, make sure you are not tightening it, anti clockwise could be tightening it.

Merch

aujopimur wrote: »

Heat always works, or if you can get a good grip on the brass fitting and rotate the tap, probably easier with a second pair of hands.

No way you get another pair of hands in there :eek: taps probably wont move without damage or much anyway? especially if its tight (can the plastic nut be got at? with the other nut in the way I mean)

I had a similar problem, it was a bitch of a job and Im not suprised plumbers charge an arm, leg and gashed knuckles for it.

I sawed through the whole thing (it simply would not come free), when it split it took the pressure off but by that stage I was on my way to cutting through it so continued away. Having said that I was replacing the taps with a new set.

Maybe try soak it with Wd-40 overnight down into the joint,then get a vice grips large enough to get around it but not so large its unmanageable in the space.

At the angle its hard to tell is it right hand thread or left hand thread. Its easy to get frustrated with a job and overlook incorrectly tightening it by mistake.

having said all that, it may be possible to heat that too, Id be as concerned about the heat transmitting to the bath and damaging it that way than direct effect of flame on bath, maybe could sheild it somehow with a bit of scrap sheet metal (beer can? even flattened and not cut, joined to other beer cans) bit ott maybe? just thinking of solutions. Also there is that mat-ing plumbers use to stop heat burning walls when soldering joints?

josealdo

Move house , probably the cheapest option are current house prices !

aujopimur

Merch wrote: »

No way you get another pair of hands in there :eek: taps probably wont move without damage or much anyway? especially if its tight (can the plastic nut be got at? with the other nut in the way I mean)

I had a similar problem, it was a bitch of a job and Im not suprised plumbers charge an arm, leg and gashed knuckles for it.

I sawed through the whole thing (it simply would not come free), when it split it took the pressure off but by that stage I was on my way to cutting through it so continued away. Having said that I was replacing the taps with a new set.

Maybe try soak it with Wd-40 overnight down into the joint,then get a vice grips large enough to get around it but not so large its unmanageable in the space.

At the angle its hard to tell is it right hand thread or left hand thread. (I presume left hand which is normally standard on most things)
If the threads are angled up to the left its normal (righty tighty lefty loosey) if its angled to the right its righthand thread (ie the opposite way), easy to get frustrated with a job and overlook incorrectly tightening it by mistake.

having said all that, it may be possible to heat that too, Id be as concerned about the heat transmitting to the bath and damaging it that way than direct effect of flame on bath, maybe could sheild it somehow with a bit of scrap sheet metal (beer can? even flattened and not cut, joined to other beer cans) bit ott maybe? just thinking of solutions. Also there is that mat-ing plumbers use to stop heat burning walls when soldering joints?

I think you misunderstood the bit about the 2nd pair of hands.

Merch

aujopimur wrote: »

I think you misunderstood the bit about the 2nd pair of hands.

i admit originally i did
but that still may not budge by that method, someone trying to rotate tap body? with other connection still in the hole, would that work?

as for getting one pair in there with tools, well there was a certain amount of swearing,
i was sure there was a specific tool for the job that i was unaware of.

aujopimur

Merch wrote: »

i admit originally i did
but that still may not budge by that method, someone trying to rotate tap body? with other connection still in the hole, would that work?

as for getting one pair in there with tools, well there was a certain amount of swearing,
i was sure there was a specific tool for the job that i was unaware of.

He did say tap, if it's a mixer that's a different story, a stilson or a onehander should get it to move.

Merch

fair enough, I was visualising mine,
that could be easier than a mixer then.

jimf

pack well with cooking foil around bath before applying heat its a good
heat deflector and very flexible so should be easy to pack in plenty sheets

just my very limited input

paddy147

Bath Mixer Tap-0

Paddy147-1......:D


Fcuking pig of a thing would not budge,and was also not able to get full leverage due to the sh!tty limited space,so I decided to whip out the electric sabre saw and sliced right through it in around 10 seconds.:)


Also cut the hot and cold pipes down to size for the flexi's and isolation valves.

Merch

its difficult to tell, but they do look kind of like they are right hand threads? angled up to the right? (which is to be expected)

anyway, thats half the battle.

paddy147

Merch wrote: »

its difficult to tell, but they do look kind of like they are right hand threads? angled up to the right?

Hot pipe nut flew off though,cold one was a biatch and like you see above,I had to cut the fcuker off in the end.:D

I did swear and curse alot,and my missus just sat there on the floor of the landing and laughed at me.At least she made my a cuppa tea though,bless her/:D

paddy147

Oh and thanks to all for the various bits of advice and tips.:)

Tried the heat gun,and it didnt work.

Also tried the WD-40 and left it soaking for several hours,didnt work.

Could only get my left hand in to lever it,and that didnt work.

Decided enough was enough and to stop fcuking about and cursing.
Had my cuppa tea,then got the electric sabre saw and long metal blade out.

Job done in 10 seconds.:D

aujopimur

paddy147 wrote: »

Bath Mixer Tap-0

Paddy147-1......:D


Fcuking pig of a thing would not budge,and was also not able to get full leverage due to the sh!tty limited space,so I decided to whip out the electric sabre saw and sliced right through it in around 10 seconds.:)


Also cut the hot and cold pipes down to size for the flexi's and isolation valves.

That sorted it.

paddy147

Am I right in thinking that I apply a small bit of Boss White to the outside of the oilve and the inside of the nut,when fitting the new compression flexi to the copper pipe?

Do I need to put any plumbers tape on the thread of the compression fitting itself?

Thanks.

aujopimur

paddy147 wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that I apply a small bit of Boss White to the outside of the oilve and the inside of the nut,when fitting the new compression flexi to the copper pipe?

Do I need to put any plumbers tape on the thread of the compression fitting itself?

Thanks.

If the compression end is metric you'll need to replace the the cap & olive with Irish ones, no need for tape on the threads, but a turn or two on the end of the part of the pipe that goes into the fitting would be no harm.

paddy147

aujopimur wrote: »

If the compression end is metric you'll need to replace the the cap & olive with Irish ones, no need for tape on the threads, but a turn or two on the end of the part of the pipe that goes into the fitting would be no harm.

I checked the olive and cap and it says 3/4 inch on the cap,also a nice snug fit down over the copper pipes too.Thanks for the advice.:)

Merch

I wrap the threads in plumbers teflon tape (in the direction of rotation so it doesnt strip it off when its tightened). More near the joint, I find its like a dry thread lock and the nut stays nice and tight/firm.
I've done compression joints without it and it was fine, the compression ring should be sealing it.

I've only used jointing compound with a bit of hessian wrapped around it on a radiator or two.

Its a bit late if this is available, but after reading the thread, I wondered is there a fluid that can be poured (not liberally, more dripped or even sprayed like WD) on joints to penetrate and help break down the jointing compound, like WD-40, I didnt think WD would really work as it has to work its way into the joint, something similar but specifically for plumbing, with jointing compound in the joint?

paddy147

Merch wrote: »

I wrap the threads in plumbers teflon tape (in the direction of rotation so it doesnt strip it off when its tightened). More near the joint, I find its like a dry thread lock and the nut stays nice and tight/firm.
I've done compression joints without it and it was fine, the compression ring should be sealing it.

I've only used jointing compound with a bit of hessian wrapped around it on a radiator or two.

Its a bit late if this is available, but after reading the thread, I wondered is there a fluid that can be poured (not liberally, more dripped or even sprayed like WD) on joints to penetrate and help break down the jointing compound, like WD-40, I didnt think WD would really work as it has to work its way into the joint, something similar but specifically for plumbing, with jointing compound in the joint?

Is that the PTFE tape you are refering to??

Thanks.:)

Merch

paddy147 wrote: »

Is that the PTFE tape you are refering to??

Thanks.:)

Yes PTFE, I think thats the abbreviation for the chemical name of Teflon

I'll hazard a guess Poly Tetra flouro Ethylene?

Yup, thats the stuff (the white tape, comes in little rolls)

paddy147

Well,I managed to get both 3/4 inch flexi's in and its all good so far,no leaks and water is running fine.

Thanks again for all the advice and tips from all of you.:)

Merch

I was going to suggest leaving the side panel open for a day after there is water in the lines, just to confirm there is no small weep of water. I used the same type of flexible pipes when I did my bath mixer. it's handy to have the service valves in it, would gave been handier if they were there before I started.

I confirmed it stays dry by ensuring it's dry (to start with), then wrap a bit of toilet paper or kitchen roll there, after a day with a few trial uses, if it hasn't absorbed any moisture I closed it up.

With mine the pipes came in from the wall not the floor so I had to allow it to bend 90 degrees so that gave me my flex.
One point, and it may not be relevant but down to my previous experience fitting hydraulic hoses and I'm wary in case its interpreted as a criticism,
For a hose that is straight I would not make it perfect to fit the gap but leave a slight bend (i.e, the hose is shorter than the gap between the connected pipes) just to allow for slight give.
That's probably the pedant in me coming out, and probably isn't even applicable in plumbing scenarios as (hopefully) nothing is moving.
I'm sure it will be fine though, as that part of the bath wont give/move much when its stood in.

paddy147

Thanks for the advice and tips Merch.:)

So far so good,checked again this morning,and bone dry,no leaks.
I had to take off the bath waste too,so that I could get the electric sabre saw in to cut the cold water pipe.

So I will leave the panel off for today,fill the bath right up and see what happens,and check again for any leaks.