Saorview external Arial type for existing poor reception area

MAJJ

Hi Folks,

I need to get an external arial for saorview.

If I understand correctly a group arial targets a specific transmitter and a wide band will pick up the best signal it can get? The latter being best for weak signal.

The house is close to a hill and surrounded by these 3 transmitters and the new arial will replace an existing chimney mounted arial.


Forth Mountain - east of house near wexford Town
Channel 52 Polarization V

Gallows Hill - Waterford
Channel 22 Polarization V

Mount Leinster - north of house in Carlow
Channel 45->23 Polarization H


Physically there is a large hill close to the house and lots of trees. I believe it will rule out the nearest which is Forth Mountain.


Current analogue setup reception is poor and no TV3.

So when purchasing an arial should I opt for a wide band or a group one. Also, when it says polarizationV/H does this mean the arial is physically mounted V or H? I expect slaggin on that one!

Thanks,
MAJJ

Ronnie Raygun

A grouped aerial is generally better than an equivalent "size" wideband when dealing with a weak signal.

You started another thread here looking for installer recommendations: are you now going to do the install yourself?

sligotrain

The rods of the aerial will either be mounted vertically or horizontally. If you're going to use Mount Leinster (and it looks like you won't from your post) then the aerial is pointed at Mount Leinster and the aerial rods will be horizontal.

The other transmitter sites you mention will require the aerial rods to vertically mounted and again pointed towards the relevant site.

Peter Rhea

MAJJ wrote: »

the new arial will replace an existing chimney mounted arial.Physically there is a large hill close to the house and lots of trees. I believe it will rule out the nearest which is Forth Mountain . . .

. . . Current analogue setup reception is poor and no TV3.

Are you sure the current aerial is the cause of your problems? No point buying another & finding you still have problems.

If you're getting an installer in, let them supply the aerial.

Capt'n Midnight

You probably don't need to put the antenna way up high if you have clear line of sight to the transmitter. No point in taking risks. Note: the reason people put antennas in attics is to get over the concrete walls of neighbouring houses.

Most antennas are Horizontal , the little metal directors at the front of the antenna are horizontal. So yeah it just means rotate the antenna 90 degrees.

Use http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

To choose a different transmitter zoom out and move the pointer a bit , that will give a very rough indication of which transmitter has best signal strength. (it would be nice if show coverage had more levels) Or you could walk around the house and see what signal strength you get from the set top box menu.


Very roughly an antenna has an acceptance angle of 20 degrees.
ie. it works a lot better if you point it the right way

any antenna that can accept signal from all directions will also take noise from all directions which kinda defeats the purpose

zg3409

Do you have a Saorview box/tv and have you failed to find the channels during a scan?

MAJJ

Thanks for all your responses, much appreciated.

Ronnie Raygun
Great name, thanks. When you say grouped, the arial needs to be the specific category for the transmitter?
As for the install thread, I may need someone to do it as I don't live there but need to help out. But I want to understand what is involved and what is needed so I don't get ripped off. I also have just got them a TV with a tuner so will try it with the existing arial. I also have an used wideband arial in my attic so may try that too before paying someone.

Sligotrain - thanks, picture me trying to force the entire arial vertical

Peter Rhea - thanks, as I said to Ray above, I will try a few existing options first before and also wan't to be clued in before talking to an installer. If got a good reasonable installer, that would take the headache away!

Capt'n Midnight - thanks. It's a detached house but close to a hill and lots of trees. Any android app that can help me point to the right trasmitter?

zg3409 - thanks, new TV on the way. For the person using it one switch on and one remote will be easier than adding a box.

The Cush

MAJJ wrote: »

When you say grouped, the arial needs to be the specific category for the transmitter?

See this RTÉNL list of frequencies including aerial group info at the back of the document - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SAORVIEW-Frequencies-Rev-2.4.pdf

MAJJ

Hi The Cush, very helpful document, thanks. Interesting about Mount Leinster channel change if one was using a specific B group arial today they would need to switch to an A group or use a wideband?

The Cush

MAJJ wrote: »

Interesting about Mount Leinster channel change if one was using a specific B group arial today they would need to switch to an A group or use a wideband?

Group aerials perform best within their range but will also receive signals from outside their range but with a decreasing gain, it will depend how strong the signal in the area is. A wideband coat hanger will work in a very strong signal area. Graphic here might explain it better.

Mt Leinster will transmit Saorview on 2 frequencies (UHF Chs. 23 & 45) for about 3 weeks from Oct 24th to allow households time to be ready for the switching off of Ch 45 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80877114&postcount=114.

MAJJ

This is the arial I had unsused in my attic for some time.

Is this a wideband arial and if so does it look up to the job for external use. Looks a bit flimsy to me and has plastic mounts.


Thanks,
MAJJ

The Cush

MAJJ wrote: »

This is the arial I had unsused in my attic for some time.

Is this a wideband arial and if so does it look up to the job for external use. Looks a bit flimsy to me and has plastic mounts.

Is there any coloured plactic bungs at the end of the aerial, black would indicate wideband, other colours would indicate the different groups (see the documents I linked to above).

Looks a bit flimsy but should be OK. Looks like one I purchased in Maplins some years ago, in the shed now having replaced it with a grouped aerial.

St Senan

MAJJ. I got your PM but saw this thread 1st. Where is your house situated at Carrigbyrne hill. Is it the New Ross (west) side of the hill. The south side or the Wexford (east) side.
Have you checked your house coverage here http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

Capt'n Midnight

MAJJ wrote: »

Capt'n Midnight - thanks. It's a detached house but close to a hill and lots of trees. Any android app that can help me point to the right trasmitter?

I just click on the satellite view option and print the page.

MAJJ

Hi Navarre,

Thanks for the response. It's the New Ross side.

Yes had checked that but am unsure on which transmitter would be best/usable as not sure of other physical obstacles and hence not sure on which group arial.
Almost sure forth mountain would be out leaving Gallows and Mount Leinster.

Cheers

Navarre wrote: »

MAJJ. I got your PM but saw this thread 1st. Where is your house situated at Carrigbyrne hill. Is it the New Ross (west) side of the hill. The south side or the Wexford (east) side.
Have you checked your house coverage here http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

St Senan

MAJJ wrote: »

Hi Navarre,

Thanks for the response. It's the New Ross side.

Yes had checked that but am unsure on which transmitter would be best/usable as not sure of other physical obstacles and hence not sure on which group arial.
Almost sure forth mountain would be out leaving Gallows and Mount Leinster.

Cheers

Around Courthoyle, Old Ross and Heath park areas your looking for leinster. How many aerials are currently on the pole.

MAJJ

Thanks , just the one.

Navarre wrote: »

MAJJ wrote: »

Hi Navarre,

Thanks for the response. It's the New Ross side.

Yes had checked that but am unsure on which transmitter would be best/usable as not sure of other physical obstacles and hence not sure on which group arial.
Almost sure forth mountain would be out leaving Gallows and Mount Leinster.

Cheers

Around Courthoyle, Old Ross and Heath park areas your looking for leinster. How many aerials are currently on the pole.

St Senan

Is the aerial on the pole like any of these http://www.blake-uk.com/vhf.aspx

MAJJ

Hi Navarre, I am not at the location but will be at the w/e but from memory it looks like the first photo B2. So it being VHF means a new one is required. I suspect the picture of the one I posted might be only ok for a loft?

St Senan

Yep i had a feeling that's why you have Poor/No TV3. Try out the WB aerial up in your loft.

MAJJ

Missed this post. No coloured bungs and likewise got from Maplins years ago and stuck unused in my attic for years.

The Cush wrote: »

Is there any coloured plactic bungs at the end of the aerial, black would indicate wideband, other colours would indicate the different groups (see the documents I linked to above).

Looks a bit flimsy but should be OK. Looks like one I purchased in Maplins some years ago, in the shed now having replaced it with a grouped aerial.

MAJJ

the mounting vertical/horizontal does this only refer to the rods of the aerial and not the large v shaped piece at the rear of the areial.

or does it simply mean the entire arial is mounted vertical or horizontal?

There is a picture in post 11.

Thanks,
MAJJ

sligotrain wrote: »

The rods of the aerial will either be mounted vertically or horizontally. If you're going to use Mount Leinster (and it looks like you won't from your post) then the aerial is pointed at Mount Leinster and the aerial rods will be horizontal.

The other transmitter sites you mention will require the aerial rods to vertically mounted and again pointed towards the relevant site.

zg3409

MAJJ wrote: »

the mounting vertical/horizontal does this only refer to the rods of the aerial and not the large v shaped piece at the rear of the areial.

The entire aerial, turn everything by 90 degrees for vertical.

reslfj

MAJJ wrote: »

Hi The Cush, very helpful document, thanks. Interesting about Mount Leinster channel change if one was using a specific B group arial today they would need to switch to an A group or use a wideband?

Wideband have lower gain for the low channels, but even many group B aerials have some gain at channel 23 - the new Mount Leinster channel.

If you have anything like 'line of sight' to Mount Leinster you should point your aerial towards this transmitter. At 160.000W ML is so much more powerful than the two small 250W/500W relay transmitters.
The Mount Leinster mast is about 900m above see level.

It may well be you will get a very good signal from a small aerial or you are behind a hill/mountain and not even a very large aerial can find any signal.

Lars


PS! Don't use a grouped aerial, if a one size larger wideband can do the job. Wideband aerials are so much more flexible.

MAJJ

Hi Folks,

Could someone please tell me what connector is needed for my cable to aerial, it needs to screw in to the aerial.

Thanks,
MAJJ

The Cush

MAJJ wrote: »

Could someone please tell me what connector is needed for my cable to aerial, it needs to screw in to the aerial.

http://www.tvtrade.ie/f-connectors-1s.html

MAJJ

Thanks i had thought they were for satellite only hence didn't make the connection, boom boom :-)

The Cush wrote: »

MAJJ wrote: »

Could someone please tell me what connector is needed for my cable to aerial, it needs to screw in to the aerial.

http://www.tvtrade.ie/f-connectors-1s.html

The Cush

MAJJ wrote: »

Thanks i had thought they were for satellite only hence didn't make the connection

Some aerials, masthead amps etc use F-connectors.

MAJJ

Hi Folks,

Was in Wexford at the w/e and based on all the advice here I have it all setup and working great.

A big thank you to all for your input.

Huge thanks to Navarre who could have just taken my money and sold me a new aerial, based on their input I could reuse an aerial in the loft. This made everything easier and cheaper to fit. When I have futher needs or locals who need help I will drop you a PM.

To summarise for anyone else. Wideband arieal pictured in thread, picking up saorview clearly from when place in loft space. Pointing, roughly, at Mt Leinster and TV tuned in stations on channel 45, will need to be retuned when they switch to channel 23.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81184437#post81184437 Thanks The Cush.

Thanks to you all for your help,
MAJJ