Help me speed up half marathon pace please!

carsfan

Hi,
First time on this thread and looking for advice as slightly frustrated.
age 41 and have been running on and off for 10 years.
This year I decided to try to improve as had been treading water for years.
Lost a couple of stone and upped the mileage. I feel much better and enjoy my running more than ever as a result.
However I went from running 1.51 half marathon times consistently to 1.38 in Limerick last May. Did Galway last weekend and did 1.37 and even though this is a pb I really feel I have improved a lot more than this in the last few months and had prepared better than before but could not produce it on the day. I had hoped to get closer to 1.35.
I run 25 to 30 miles a week and on long easy runs usually do 7.45 minute miles relatively easy and 7.20 minute miles on shorter fast runs.
I have no great experience of speed training.Is this what I need or maybe I have just plateaued and will not get any faster?
Any advice appreciated.

RayCun

Join a club and do some proper faster training - intervals, tempo runs, hill training etc - in a group.

Rogue Runner

RayCun wrote: »

Join a club and do some proper faster training - intervals, tempo runs, hill training etc - in a group.

Second that.

BrokenMan

Agree with joining a club if you can as you will get great structure to your training.
However a couple of things stand out from your post. Your long runs seem a bit too fast and your fast runs seem a bit too slow. 7.20 pace is near enough to your current HM pace and while getting used to running at his pace would for a good part of any trainig plan you also need to get the body used to running faster ver shorter distances. This is where interval training and tempo running comes into play.

Longer runs or LSR runs are really there to get you used to time on your feet and can be run anything from 45 - 90 seconds per mile slower than your planned race pace.

A quick google of Half Marathon Training plans will give you loads of examples of good quality sessions better than I would.

Best of luck with it.

rom

Having run my first half marathon May 2011 in 1:59 my time has come down to recent last month to 1:32 (was on meds and sick doing it) and was as a result disappointed because I should have gone ~4 mins quicker if fully fit I would think as did a 68 mins for frank duffy month before. When you say that you run 25 to 30 miles a week I presume that that is when you do good weeks not taking into account when your sick etc. I normally run 55-70 but my year avg is like 45miles per week due to tapers being sick etc. Anyways the single most thing that has improved my times has been running more. I did also join a club but have not made use of their sessions because they are focusing on shorter stuff at the moment but will do so after DCM. Other than in a session I run most runs at 8:30 per mile which I would consider conversational pace. Personally (just an opinion aka I could be wrong) but it looks like you are running the slow stuff too fast and the fast stuff too slow. You need to be knocking out 7 min mile repeats with recovery building up to longer repeats to put a good dint in your half time I would think. Also if you work out the VDOT of each of your PB's you will see a graph. Now if the graph starts high and ends low then you need more endurance training. The other way around then you need more speed training. Think of the graph being close to having a flat line and that being your current potential with the correct training. Running a 1.35 1/2 off 25-30 miles a week is a very good return. There is also the question of weight. I thought I was ok but losing another stone recently meant my easy running pace went from 9:00 to 8:30 per mile. This though hard has been the best return for effort as getting the same return from running would take a long long time. Disclaimer: I am far from any sort of authority on this but these are my opinions.

Burgman

rom wrote: »

Disclaimer: I am far from any sort of authority on this but these are my opinions.

And I happen to agree with everything you said, particularly in relation to weight. There is apparently a statistical relationship between lower weight and faster race times, although I am unable to quote the relevant research right now.

So don't run yourself down too much.

rom

I am 5 10 and 76KG far from a rake. Goal being 70 by Ballycotton

myflipflops

carsfan wrote: »

I run 25 to 30 miles a week.

I presume you train mainly 3 times a week? The mileage is too low anyway.

Simply add a couple of extra runs and 20 miles a week and you will begin to see a big difference without going anywhere near speed work. Ideally make one of your extra runs a tempo.

lorrieq

7.45 minute miles on a slow run and 7.20 minute miles on a tempo? That doesn't make sense to me. My difference in pace must be about 2.30 minutes/mile between those two sessions.

Mix up your training. Looong slooow runs, interval sessions, hill work.

menoscemo

lorrieq wrote: »

7.45 minute miles on a slow run and 7.20 minute miles on a tempo? That doesn't make sense to me. My difference in pace must be about 2.30 minutes/mile between those two sessions.

Mix up your training. Looong slooow runs, interval sessions, hill work.

Yep that's it in a nutshell. Fast runs should be faster and slow runs should be slower. As it stands OP all your runs are being done at HMP +/- 10 seconds/mile.

Do two sessions a week of fast running and keep the rest nice and easy (8:30mile+). By doing this you are keeping up the quality but allowing the body to recover on easy days meaning you should be able to up your mileage without risking injury.

carsfan

thanks for all the helpful input.
I have thought of joining a club and will follow this up.
Re. weight, I am now lighter than I was as a teenager when I did a lot of training so don't know whether much more possible but may try to lose more again.
From what I understand from the posts I need to up the mileage but at a slower pace and mix in faster shorter runs.
What distance should my fast runs be and what pace should I aim for on them?
Also what should my longer run distances be?
I went up to 15 miles at a pace of 7.45 min miles before Galway. Should I go more but just more slowly?
Thanks again for the tips.

menoscemo

carsfan wrote: »

From what I understand from the posts I need to up the mileage but at a slower pace and mix in faster shorter runs.
What distance should my fast runs be and what pace should I aim for on them?

The Faster runs don't have to be shorter. You should train to a goal pace.

Say for example you want to run a 1:32 HM next (7 min/mile) then try to include sessions that include some progression towards that goal.
Say for example start out and do 6 x 1mile @ 7 min/mile with 2 min jog recoveries. With a slow warmup and cool down you would be covering maybe 9/10 miles......as you get more comfortable with 7 min/mile progress to doing 3 x 2 miles-> 3 x 3 miles-> 2 x 4miles etc etc basically building up as you get closer to the goal race and getting in specific speed session for that distance.

If your goal is a 5k/10k race then you need to do more shorter sharper session (1k repeats etc) but always training towards goal pace.

Basically pick a goal race a few months down the line and train specifically for it...

rom

Could you list your current PB's for other distances too ?

Nwm2

carsfan wrote: »

Hi,
First time on this thread and looking for advice as slightly frustrated.
age 41 and have been running on and off for 10 years.
This year I decided to try to improve as had been treading water for years.
Lost a couple of stone and upped the mileage. I feel much better and enjoy my running more than ever as a result.
However I went from running 1.51 half marathon times consistently to 1.38 in Limerick last May. Did Galway last weekend and did 1.37 and even though this is a pb I really feel I have improved a lot more than this in the last few months and had prepared better than before but could not produce it on the day. I had hoped to get closer to 1.35.
I run 25 to 30 miles a week and on long easy runs usually do 7.45 minute miles relatively easy and 7.20 minute miles on shorter fast runs.
I have no great experience of speed training.Is this what I need or maybe I have just plateaued and will not get any faster?
Any advice appreciated.

You will still get faster with better and more training.

I disagree with the advice about joining a club - of all sports running for an M/HM requires this least. Do it if you want to however.

Agree with the advice about more miles in general, via running more often, and going a good bit faster than 7.20 on your faster runs. The difference in pace between your runs is very small. The race pace you're aiming for is just sub 7:00. What plan are you working off?

carsfan

My pb for 8k in streeets of galway is 34.15 and best 10k this year was 43.29 but I felt that I had improved since then.
have to admit I haven't really followed any plan as such, I just tried to up my miles and thought increased speed would come with it.

TFBubendorfer

carsfan wrote: »

=I just tried to up my miles and thought increased speed would come with it.

It does, but 25-30 miles a week is very low mileage, especially if you're aiming at the HM.

carsfan

ok.
Looks like I need more miles every week if I am going to improve.
I always thought that more miles at slow pace would not help in improving my times but obviously not from replies received.

RayCun

carsfan wrote: »

ok.
Looks like I need more miles every week if I am going to improve.
I always thought that more miles at slow pace would not help in improving my times but obviously not from replies received.

The additional slow miles help build your aerobic base.

TJC

If u even just do one session a week it will help a lot. You could alternate between tempo and intervals.

You should get a better idea of what your training pace should be like from McMillan..Just enter ur half marathon pb.

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/

dernipper

Just be careful and gradually introduce/increase mileage,,, whilst the advice you have been given regarding increasing mileage is correct make sure any additional miles are adding value, for example I run off a very low weekly base but always monitor the quality of runs V the quantity/mileage making sure I run all my runs be it LSR, tempo etc at the correct pace range Rather than focus on running x miles a week, best of luck !

carsfan wrote: »

ok.
Looks like I need more miles every week if I am going to improve.
I always thought that more miles at slow pace would not help in improving my times but obviously not from replies received.

Clearlier

RayCun wrote: »

The additional slow miles help build your aerobic base.

This explains why it means you go faster. It's long but worth the time invested.

rom

Clearlier wrote: »

This explains why it means you go faster. It's long but worth the time invested.

I hadd already pm'd the op that

carsfan

Thanks to both of you for that.
I read it last night and it makes sense.
I will change my training and see what happens
Have to admit I thought getting out doing 30 miles a week was good going for an amatuer of my age especially with work, kids etc. time is hard to find but will give this a go.

Clearlier

carsfan wrote: »

Thanks to both of you for that.
I read it last night and it makes sense.
I will change my training and see what happens
Have to admit I thought getting out doing 30 miles a week was good going for an amatuer of my age especially with work, kids etc. time is hard to find but will give this a go.

Don't forget balance in your life. It's great that you want to improve but don't do it at the expense of work or family.

rom

carsfan wrote: »

Thanks to both of you for that.
I read it last night and it makes sense.
I will change my training and see what happens
Have to admit I thought getting out doing 30 miles a week was good going for an amatuer of my age especially with work, kids etc. time is hard to find but will give this a go.

I work somewhere they have showers so I can run to and from work instead of sitting in a car. Get my run done and not eat into as much family time. There is always time. Have understanding wife, daughter,job and 3 nights a week college course and 50+ miles a week going for the first half of this year.Every minute your watching TV is time wasted. A headlamp for the winter so you can run early morning or late at night is a must unless you live somewhere very lit up.

wrstan

Firstly well done on your progress to date. Your improvement from 1:51 to 1:37 is already a significant achievement.

There's some great advice here which can definitely help your running progress. To add my small contribution, one of the best bits of advice I received can be summed up in the word "specificity" :eek:. In other words, every session or run you do should have a specific purpose or objective. If it doesn't, you run the risk of running junk miles that are not making any great contribuition to your running progress.

From my experience this year, my training was pretty unstructured and at times a bit aimless. I was struggling to break 40 mins for 10k, so I decided to follow a specific training cycle targetting a specific 10k time - the McMillan 10k plan leading up to 3X2mile repeats at race pace. I found it was the single biggest contributor to a significant improvement in my results.

A good test is to ask yourself the question "why am I doing this run?" or "what do I hope to achieve with this run?". If you are having difficulties answering those questions, I suggest you should look at a different training plan that is focussed on your goal.

carsfan

What is the difference between a steady state run and a tempo run in training?
I am going to aim now for the Waterford half in December following the advice given and see how it works out.
Many thanks