ipad and android app

limklad1974

Hi there
I have an idea for an app and would like to have it available both on ipad/iphone and android devices.
Essentially its a sporting league type app which users pay to download but I was wondering if its possible to have a league which combines users from all devices (i.e. can 1 user log in using an ipad and play in the league, and at the same time user 2 logs in using his android phone and he can enter the same league?)

Is there a restriction on apple that means if you pay to download the app via Itunes, or use In App payment, that the user can only then use this within an iOs version of the app.

It would be possible for someone to download both versions of the App theoretically and pay for it on one device and play it on the other.... does Apple stop you doing this?

The Corinthian

limklad1974 wrote: »

Essentially its a sporting league type app which users pay to download but I was wondering if its possible to have a league which combines users from all devices (i.e. can 1 user log in using an ipad and play in the league, and at the same time user 2 logs in using his android phone and he can enter the same league?)

Yes, this is the basis of most Client-Server applications (like Boards.ie, for example). Only difference is that the client will be an app rather than a Web browser.

It would be possible for someone to download both versions of the App theoretically and pay for it on one device and play it on the other.... does Apple stop you doing this?

Yes, by using registration codes or subscriptions. Release a free app on multiple appstores. Then a user will download from one of these. At this point you can ask them to register and then allow them to purchase a membership subscription with in-app billing.

Once this is cleared and their registration is registered against their account on your server, they will be able to use any version of the app as long as they use an account that has purchased the membership subscription.

limklad1974

The Corinthian wrote: »

Yes, this is the basis of most Client-Server applications (like Boards.ie, for example). Only difference is that the client will be an app rather than a Web browser.

Yes, by using registration codes or subscriptions. Release a free app on multiple appstores. Then a user will download from one of these. At this point you can ask them to register and then allow them to purchase a membership subscription with in-app billing.

Once this is cleared and their registration is registered against their account on your server, they will be able to use any version of the app as long as they use an account that has purchased the membership subscription.

Hi there
Many thanks for responding to my question.
Do you know of an App that is on the market that does a similar thing to what I am referring to though? I can't find anything!

I guess my worry was that if a let a user down the app for free on iTunes and again they downloaded it for free from android store, they could choose to pay the subscription on iTunes on their ipad but then play the game/league on their android phone.

I've no problem with them doing that but Apple would have made money via their in app purchases and the android store wouldnt, and the user ended up using the membership on the android device...

Jim2007

limklad1974 wrote: »

It would be possible for someone to download both versions of the App theoretically and pay for it on one device and play it on the other.... does Apple stop you doing this?

Assuming that the authentication is being performed by the web server, it should be no problem. A good example would be the Yahoo Messenger, you can download it on any device from an IPad to a PC and use the same login credentials no matter which device you use.

limklad1974

Jim2007 wrote: »

Assuming that the authentication is being performed by the web server, it should be no problem. A good example would be the Yahoo Messenger, you can download it on any device from an IPad to a PC and use the same login credentials no matter which device you use.

sorry but isnt Yahoo Messenger a free app? I am trying to find an app that users can download for free on itunes/android and then a user can use an in app purchase to get additional features.

this is then where my grey area occurs... if they purchase the additonal features on android, can they access them via an ipad.... and apple lose out on their beloved 30% of the revenue...

The Corinthian

limklad1974 wrote: »

Do you know of an App that is on the market that does a similar thing to what I am referring to though? I can't find anything!

I am not aware of one.

I guess my worry was that if a let a user down the app for free on iTunes and again they downloaded it for free from android store, they could choose to pay the subscription on iTunes on their ipad but then play the game/league on their android phone.

Either way you still get paid, regardless of whether it was purchased from iTunes or Google Play.

I've no problem with them doing that but Apple would have made money via their in app purchases and the android store wouldnt, and the user ended up using the membership on the android device...

That's not your problem and Google would have absolutely no way of knowing - you (and your server) are the only one who will have the full picture of who's paid and from where.

Jim2007

limklad1974 wrote: »

this is then where my grey area occurs... if they purchase the additonal features on android, can they access them via an ipad.... and apple lose out on their beloved 30% of the revenue...

I don't see that it is a grey area at all. If someone pays for the features via the App Store, Apple gets a slice, if not then they don't. From the server, you control what features are available in the app and which are not.... as long as a user is paid up they the get the features regardless of the payment method.

However, from a technical point of view to have your app accepted by the App Store, you need to handle the turning on and off of features within the guidelines of Apple.

srsly78

Yep there is legal problem here, not technical problem.

alexlyons

only way i see it working is it being a web based app of sorts. apple wont let an app in that would be better off on a mobile site, but a mobile site would allow you have certain features available to certain accounts (ie those who paid) on any device.

The Corinthian

srsly78 wrote: »

Yep there is legal problem here, not technical problem.

Not really. Consider a user downloads the free app onto their Android phone and registers an account (in much the same way as you do for Boards). Using in-app billing they purchase the right to use all the features of the app.

Back home, they have an iPad and they download the iPad version of the app. However, this time they simply log in with their existing account, and as the one-off 'subscription' is associated with this account, not the divice, it means that they have full access to the same functionality regardless of device used.

How would Apple know they've done this? How often would it even happen (that a user employs both iOS and Android devices)? In reality, it would only occur a minory of the time and both Apple and Google would gain or lose pretty evenly in this regard. On top of which, there are already plenty of apps on both markets who happily push the boundaries of the regulations on payments and have no problem.

Personally, I think it's a non-issue.

Jim2007

The Corinthian wrote: »

Personally, I think it's a non-issue.

I fully agree...

OP, you could also totally avoid the issue by building a HTML5/Javascript app that runs fully in the browser. You could then use anyone of the many third party options for collecting payments.

limklad1974

Is there anyone out there who will help build the app for me? I have just been through hell using Freelancer.com for months now and keep getting bad people involved in the project who cannot deliver what I need!!!

Graham

Do you think you are picking the wrong people or are your requirements not detailed/specific enough, or do you think it's a combination of both?

The Corinthian

Graham wrote: »

Do you think you are picking the wrong people or are your requirements not detailed/specific enough, or do you think it's a combination of both?

Either way it's probably the wrong people as part of the job of handling a development project is being able to manage client requirements and application design professionally. Unless Limklad repeatedly signed off on specs without reading them properly, the onus is really on the supplier.

Honestly, unless you're really lucky, I think that sites like that are either best left to someone already up to speed with IT and outsourcing or for very, very basic jobs, like brochureware sites.

Of course, enough bad experiences and eventually one can become an expert outsourcer too... it's an expensive and time consuming education though.

Limklad, I'll be blunt - what kind of budget have you got to spend?

limklad1974

Don't really have a budget anymore... looking for a partner to come on board and build the app and share in revenue

The Corinthian

Well then... what you propose is a pure sweat equity model and that is going to be a tough sell to anyone with any real professional experience (students and bottom feeders are easier to convince, but then you'd be going back to the Freelancer.com model in many respects). You should be clear from the start that you're strictly proposing only sweat equity, to eliminate those who hope to upsell it to some form of payment.

The type of developer you want is a bit of an all-rounder. While their development skills are important, in the longer term you want someone who can act as a business analyst, software architect and project manager. Remember, once they become a partner, they're difficult to get rid of, so you don't want to be carrying a developer who won't be able to do the job of a CTO in the future.

Also don't go for a desperate freelance consultant - the one's who are too quick and eager to come on board or are willing to do a complex app for a couple of hundred Euro. If they were any good at what they do, they'd have enough work.

From their point of view, their time costs money. If, for example, developing your product (which requires both app and server development, given your earlier questions) takes four weeks of solid coding, plus another three weeks of requirements gathering, documentation, design and management of third parties (a developer is not the same thing as a designer, so there will still be costs), then that's worth probably about €15k to them. They effectively would be investing that money in you.

As such, be under no illusion you are the one being interviewed for the job, not they. For that you have to be able to demonstrate that you've done your homework (market research and the like) and that you're not just going to be some dead weight in the long term - that you bring more to the venture than an 'idea'. Having clients already lined up, capital, a solid and convincing revenue model or even setting up a company (which in turn would open the way to get a feasibility study grant) will all help sell your venture to a potential partner.

I underlined the bit about the revenue model because ultimately that's what it comes down to; that in the longer term you're proposing a viable business. Remember, they're investing a five figure sum, through their time, their hope is that the return on this will be much higher in the long term, so it's up to you to convince them that the risk is worth it.

If you can't do that, get used to getting rejection talks or emails that end with something like "I wish you all the best in your venture".

limklad1974

1) We have already built a working version of the app using Adobe Flash Builder, so much of the work on design issues, screen layout etc are all done.
2) A graphic designer has been involved and created the images needed for the app
3) All the web services needed for the app are already written and can be seen working in the Flash Builder app which runs on my desktop perfectly
4) A company has already been set up
5) The person I am looking for is not required to be a business analyst, software architect or project manager - I do this role in my day job and would be doing this role in this project

I fully understand the person I am looking for has to put in 'sweat equity' to build the app but believe me, I have already invested time, sweat, and money to the project!!!

The Corinthian

limklad1974 wrote: »

1) We have already built a working version of the app using Adobe Flash Builder, so much of the work on design issues, screen layout etc are all done.

Then what do you need a developer for if you have a working version? Surely you only need a developer for a few changes before launch - and if not, and this 'working version' is still a long way away from something you can launch with, what exactly do you have?

5) The person I am looking for is not required to be a business analyst, software architect or project manager - I do this role in my day job and would be doing this role in this project

Your experiences with outsourcing would argue otherwise on the point of being a PM. As for software architect, your initial posts here kind of give away that you're not one of those either.

I fully understand the person I am looking for has to put in 'sweat equity' to build the app but believe me, I have already invested time, sweat, and money to the project!!!

Irrelevant. Investing time, sweat, and money entitles you to nothing. I might argue that having invested time, sweat, and money at a baccarat table entitles me to win at it, by the same logic.

The onus is on you to sell your business to a prospective partner if you are going down the pure sweat equity route. If you cannot give someone the confidence that your business is going to be successful, then all you're offering is that they can work for you for free. And no experienced developer with half a brain will go for that, unless it's charity work.

I don't mean to be cruel with the above, but I do think you need to accept some unpleasant truths is you want to turn your ventures fortunes around.

limklad1974

I take everything you say on board, though surely my initial question was valid for someone like me who has plenty of web site building experience and also working with databases. I had never been involved in building an app before and wanted to check on how in-app purchasing worked on different devices....

I guess the problem I have is with your statement 'the onus is on you to sell your business to a prospective partner' - there doesnt really seem to be a way to do this, if as you and other posters say that getting some programmer involved is a long shot!!

The Corinthian

limklad1974 wrote: »

I take everything you say on board, though surely my initial question was valid for someone like me who has plenty of web site building experience and also working with databases. I had never been involved in building an app before and wanted to check on how in-app purchasing worked on different devices....

I'm more confused by how someone who comes from a BA/PM background has managed to get repeatedly burnt on outsourced work.

Actually, scratch that; I don't want to know how and it's too late for it to do you any good anyway.

I guess the problem I have is with your statement 'the onus is on you to sell your business to a prospective partner' - there doesnt really seem to be a way to do this, if as you and other posters say that getting some programmer involved is a long shot!!

If you can't think of a way to sell your venture to someone, as a viable and attractive business, then why are you still trying to get it off the ground?

Ask yourself, why are you still investing your time, sweat, and money into it? Then take all the emotional reasons out of your answer. With what's left, would that convince you, if you were a third party?

If so, you have at least a starting point on "a way to do this".

If not, you've got a much bigger problem than trying to convince someone to come on board.

Jim2007

limklad1974 wrote: »

1) We have already built a working version of the app using Adobe Flash Builder, so much of the work on design issues, screen layout etc are all done.

Having a prototype working in Flash Builder and getting the app working on the IPhone and Android is a very different story, espically if it is using Flex!