Cross border application of penalty points.

Chuck_Norris

http://www.thejournal.ie/penalty-points-cross-border-ireland-623966-Oct2012/

As reported in thejournal.ie, looks like they're gonna be introducing this.

Opinions?

CiniO

1.First of all if penalty point will be recognised by both jurisdictions, there should be the same exact rules for receiving points. Is it like that at the moment?
Just it wouldn't be great if someone in ROI get 2 points for speeding, while in NI would get 5.

2. Would that affect UK licence holders as well in Ireland? If so, then it would close the big loophole.
Because to be honest, I assume vast majority of drivers who might get near to 12 points limit at the moment, already hold UK licences to make sure they are safe?
Does any of you know anyone who exceeded 12 points limit in Ireland? I don't...

3. There seems to some solutions around EU already. F.e. my friend found out it harsh way, as he after moving from Ireland to Poland drove there with Irish licence being sure he is safe penaltypointswise...
But he wasn't. After exceeding penalty points limit, Polish authorities asked him to pass driving test again, as rules are pretty clear - any person resident in Poland collects points in Poland no matter what licence he/she holds. Therefore my friend ended living in Poland with Irish licence in his hand, but driving ban in Poland.

doopa

CiniO wrote: »

1.First of all if penalty point will be recognised by both jurisdictions, there should be the same exact rules for receiving points. Is it like that at the moment?
Just it wouldn't be great if someone in ROI get 2 points for speeding, while in NI would get 5.

2. Would that affect UK licence holders as well in Ireland? If so, then it would close the big loophole.
Because to be honest, I assume vast majority of drivers who might get near to 12 points limit at the moment, already hold UK licences to make sure they are safe?
Does any of you know anyone who exceeded 12 points limit in Ireland? I don't...

3. There seems to some solutions around EU already. F.e. my friend found out it harsh way, as he after moving from Ireland to Poland drove there with Irish licence being sure he is safe penaltypointswise...
But he wasn't. After exceeding penalty points limit, Polish authorities asked him to pass driving test again, as rules are pretty clear - any person resident in Poland collects points in Poland no matter what licence he/she holds. Therefore my friend ended living in Poland with Irish licence in his hand, but driving ban in Poland.

1 - Punishments don't have to be the same in both juristictions. The Swiss prosecute others quite happily and have a very interesting attitude to speeding (which I personally think is quite fair) - fine is proportionate to wages!

2: This license thing needs to get tidied up in the UK nevermind with the RoI. I got points in NI but had a GB license and so didn't get the points added on. from the sounds of this announcement it seems possible that the link up is only with the DVLANI not the one in Wales - DLVA.
It is becoming easier to get to 12 points with the increases for drink driving, careless driving etc.

3: If you are resident in the most EU countries you are supposed to get a license in that country. E.g. UK gives you 12 months - though its typically ignored for Irish people, wonder how long that can continue for? Most EU countries give you a 6months to a year. Ireland however, doesn't seem to be that bothered. No-one seems to check up too much on these things inside the EU from what I can see/friends experiences. Yanks, Canadians, etc are probably treated a bit differently too.

awec

This post has been deleted.

doopa

awec wrote: »

Says who?

Anyway, I have a UK license down here. Have 3 UK points and 2 Irish ones. Have declared all 5 to my insurers to if they introduce this it'll make little difference to me.

Like I say Ireland and the UK don't seem that bothered about it. But officially in most EU countries you must exchange your driving license. Probably not as big an issue between Ireland and UK as neither has residency permits/ municipal registration requirements.

Are the Irish points on your paper counterpart? Who issued them out of curiosity - DLVANI or whatever the equivalent is here?

awec

This post has been deleted.

awec

awec wrote: »

Says who?

Anyway, I have a UK license down here. Have 3 UK points and 2 Irish ones. Have declared all 5 to my insurers to if they introduce this it'll make little difference to me.

You don't have 2 Irish points though, as you cannot apply Irish points to a UK licence.

As far as I'm aware you are under no obligation to declare points that are not officially on your licence to your insurer.

doopa wrote: »

Like I say Ireland and the UK don't seem that bothered about it. But officially in most EU countries you must exchange your driving license. Probably not as big an issue between Ireland and UK as neither has residency permits/ municipal registration requirements.

Under EU law a licence is valid until it expires, countrys can make up rules but they are over ruled by the EU law.

BigEejit

Moses Howling Rumor wrote: »

Under EU law a licence is valid until it expires, countrys can make up rules but they are over ruled by the EU law.

Indeed:
See http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/behavior/doc/faq_dl_en.pdf and http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/behavior/driving_licence_en.htm

6. I already have a driving licence issued by a Member State and I am taking up residence in another Member State. Will my licence be recognised?
According to Article 1(2) of Directive 91/439/EEC, the licence must be recognised in the host Member State. Therefore, you are no longer obliged to exchange it if your normal residence is henceforth in a Member State other than that which issued your driving licence.

Now if you try and find an answer on the DVLA website good luck, obfuscation and misinformation. EU legislation is that they cannot force you to exchange, it is voluntary.

CiniO

doopa wrote: »

1 - Punishments don't have to be the same in both juristictions. The Swiss prosecute others quite happily and have a very interesting attitude to speeding (which I personally think is quite fair) - fine is proportionate to wages!

I heard about some Scandinavian countries doing the same... (fine depends on wages).
But...
It's probably easy to check with residents, but what about foreigner? How much fine are they paying?
Also what in case of someone how is officially unemployed, but holds a lump sum on some swiss bank account ?

3: If you are resident in the most EU countries you are supposed to get a license in that country. E.g. UK gives you 12 months - though its typically ignored for Irish people, wonder how long that can continue for? Most EU countries give you a 6months to a year. Ireland however, doesn't seem to be that bothered. No-one seems to check up too much on these things inside the EU from what I can see/friends experiences. Yanks, Canadians, etc are probably treated a bit differently too.

AFAIK most EU countries don't require you to change licence if your licence is issued from other EU country.
I'm obviously not familiar with regulations in most countries, but I know regulations from two (Ireland and Poland) and both of them don't require anyone to change licence.

BigEejit

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/behavior/driving_licence_en.htm

Seems that individual states can make you exchange ....

Prerogatives of the Member State of residence
As driver licensing matters have not been the subject of exhaustive harmonisation, Member States have residual competence on various points.
Therefore, when the holder of a driving licence resides in the territory of a Member State which is not the state that issued the licence, that host country can require his compliance with certain rules, for example:
National provisions on the period of validity of driving licences.

awec

This post has been deleted.

corktina

Isn't it the case that it's an offence not to have your current address on your license?

doopa

corktina wrote: »

Isn't it the case that it's an offence not to have your current address on your license?

In the UK it is, if you live in the UK. However, if you move out of the UK, and live somewhere else that obligation is no longer there. Weird!

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

I heard about some Scandinavian countries doing the same... (fine depends on wages).
But...
It's probably easy to check with residents, but what about foreigner? How much fine are they paying?
Also what in case of someone how is officially unemployed, but holds a lump sum on some swiss bank account ?

Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands also have no such restriction.

Only one being that if you have a French/German/Norwegian/UK license its valid for a maximum of 10 years from the date of issue and should be exchanged within 6 months of obtaining normal residence if outside the 10 year period.

Its only really an issue if something goes wrong and the Police check your date of registration with the Gemeente/Landhuaptstadt (City Hall)

For people on foreign plates and foreign licenses if your issued a fine by the Police its logged against your ID/Passport number, this is filed with the CJIB (Centraal Jusititie Incasso Bureau)

While they don't pursue you actively outside the country, i've a friend who was held by the Airport police in Schiphol until he paid his fine and to really makes things bad he missed his flight too.