The Assaults on Emergency Workers Bill 2012

bitter_lemon

This will be a welcome piece of legislation if passed. Its really about time and well overdue!

It will bring in minimum jail sentences for those convicted of assault or threatening the life of an emergency worker.

The Bill will ensure that anyone convicted of the above will at least serve five years in prison.

karbonkoncepts

in their brilliant wisdom they did not pass the bill.. we are obviously not that important to them... we need to remember this when they all come knocking on our doors for re-election... sure its a great country we live in.

but yet someone gets arrested for criminal damage for throwing an egg at gilmores car today..

f+++ing laughable!!!

sealgaire

dont think its a good idea. What if you were out protesting (i.e. Erris etc) and the Gardai abuse their power like they did (are) there and you pushed back. They only looking for a reason to lock you up.

Think Gardai should be exempt from this.

Bosh

sealgaire wrote: »

dont think its a good idea. What if you were out protesting (i.e. Erris etc) and the Gardai abuse their power like they did (are) there and you pushed back. They only looking for a reason to lock you up.

Think Gardai should be exempt from this.

Back under your bridge, there's a good chap.

Mr Simpson

sealgaire wrote: »

dont think its a good idea. What if you were out protesting (i.e. Erris etc) and the Gardai abuse their power like they did (are) there and you pushed back. They only looking for a reason to lock you up.

Think Gardai should be exempt from this.

It shouldn't and wouldn't apply to a simple shove in the chest. It would be for serious assaults only. To which Gardai are subject every day. Currently most offenders get off with a suspended sentence, absolute joke imo.

Resceu247

Just doing the rounds on FB now since the bill was rejected, a picture paints a thousand words

sealgaire

Bosh wrote: »

Back under your bridge, there's a good chap.

Excuse me?

mmcn90 wrote: »

It shouldn't and wouldn't apply to a simple shove in the chest. It would be for serious assaults only. To which Gardai are subject every day. Currently most offenders get off with a suspended sentence, absolute joke imo.

There was no statute of limitations mentioned in the bill so it could just as easily be applied to any situation at a judges discretion

Mr Simpson

sealgaire wrote: »

There was no statute of limitations mentioned in the bill so it could just as easily be applied to any situation at a judges discretion

What??? Statute of limitations refers to time, not what cases it can involve.

sealgaire

much less ignorant discussion here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056773155

Bosh

You know where to continue it so.

Zambia

mmcn90 wrote: »

It shouldn't and wouldn't apply to a simple shove in the chest. It would be for serious assaults only. To which Gardai are subject every day. Currently most offenders get off with a suspended sentence, absolute joke imo.

Of course it should

Basically the rule should be simple if you assault a Paramedic, Fireman/woman or a Police officer you should be charged with that offence.

That offence should be higher than a standard assault.

Regardless of the level of injury. They are there to do a Job if you interfere with them then you become that job.

bitter_lemon

Well i see it wasn't passed.

The way we treat 24/7 workers in this country is a joke so hardly surprising.

Mr Simpson

Zambia wrote: »

mmcn90 wrote: »

It shouldn't and wouldn't apply to a simple shove in the chest. It would be for serious assaults only. To which Gardai are subject every day. Currently most offenders get off with a suspended sentence, absolute joke imo.

Of course it should

Basically the rule should be simple if you assault a Paramedic, Fireman/woman or a Police officer you should be charged with that offence.

That offence should be higher than a standard assault.

Regardless of the level of injury. They are there to do a Job if you interfere with them then you become that job.

My point is, somebody shouldn't get 5 years for a simple shove in the chest imo. They should get a higher penalty than if they assaulted a civilian, but 5 years is too harsh imo.

It should be for the equivilant of ABH or GBH in the UK, rather than a simple common assault.

bitter_lemon

Zambia wrote: »

Of course it should

Basically the rule should be simple if you assault a Paramedic, Fireman/woman or a Police officer you should be charged with that offence.

That offence should be higher than a standard assault.

Regardless of the level of injury. They are there to do a Job if you interfere with them then you become that job.

Totally agree there. Not only that when you interfere people suffer on a grander scale. Its not just an individual attack. You are stopping them doing their job ie helping others so the knock on effect can stack up.

Zambia

mmcn90 wrote: »

My point is, somebody shouldn't get 5 years for a simple shove in the chest imo. They should get a higher penalty than if they assaulted a civilian, but 5 years is too harsh imo.

It should be for the equivilant of ABH or GBH in the UK, rather than a simple common assault.

I agree but if

A Shoves B and police are called

Then A Shoves Garda C

Well he should get twice the penalty for that than the shove on A.

Simply due to the fact is it lowers the risk of C getting shoved all day.

Lets face it A has a lesser chance of getting shoved than C. So its only fair the law gives C some protection.

But all in proportion 5 years is too much

Mr Simpson

I completely agree, but this act provides mandatory 5 year prison term. There should be a sliding scale.

goldie fish

moot.

kub

Tekken wrote: »

A lot of various legislation has a mandatory sentence attached to it..... But it very rarely happens.

So peoples point that a judge will always enforce this 5 year mandatory sentence is really a mute point.

Just thinking that too, what was that drug one for again 10 years wasn't it?

greenmat

Copied from the act. Don't see the problems people are expressing here. The skangers and scumbags are far more protected than the law abiding citizens.
(2)




Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply where the Court

is satisfied where there is exceptional and specific circumstances

relating to the offence, or the person convicted of the offence, which

would make a sentence of not less than 5 years imprisonment unjust

in all the circumstances and for this purpose the Court may have 20

regard to any matters it considers appropriate, including







a) whether that person pleaded guilty to the offence and, if

so:

(i) the stage at which he indicated the intention to plead

guilty, and 25

(ii) the circumstances in which the indication was given,

and





b) whether that person materially assisted in the investigation

of the offence.

Sierra Oscar

And it is important to remember that the proposer of the legislation made it quite clear that he was willing to work with the government as it passed through the Dáil to make the act more robust against technical issues and the likes - which is no surprise as opposition parties do not have the same drafting resources available as government does.

However the government flatly refused to take up on that offer.

IRLConor

It's a pity that this bill didn't go through. I have to say though, my only objection is that it wasn't providing for mandatory minimum sentences for all assaults, not just for assaults on emergency workers.

Currently, to the best of my knowledge, five years is the maximum sentence for a section 3 assault. To the best of my knowledge, most of those convicted get substantially less than that and serve even less still. For example, my cousin's attacker got 2 and a half years for an attack that resulted in my cousin needing reconstructive surgery to fix his face.

How many scumbags who assault emergency workers are committing their first assault? Wouldn't it be better to have them jailed (properly!) earlier in their "career"?

goldie fish

Isn't there already an offence(never used) in the public order act that deals with such an assault already? DPP has rarely let it go to court though.

limklad

Zambia wrote: »

Of course it should

Basically the rule should be simple if you assault a Paramedic, Fireman/woman or a Police officer you should be charged with that offence.

That offence should be higher than a standard assault.

Regardless of the level of injury. They are there to do a Job if you interfere with them then you become that job.

The Gardai already have lots of laws and power to use to charge individuals with than the rest of the Emergency personnel. It is sad to say, No amount of extra protection will reduce the numbers of injuries for Gardai. Their job is to get into violent situations and diffuse them. If that member of the Gardai already have a bad attitude, it inflames the situations causing a bigger problem, like adding petrol to the fire. There will be situations that anything can happen especially those on drugs and intoxicated with Alcohol.

But for Fireman and Other non-Gardai Emergency personnel have basically the same protections and powers as ordinary People on the Street.
I will welcome it, An ambulance failing to get to a scene of an accident or call because lack of personnel which is more stretch than the Gardai at present is killing innocent people or causing long term effect on untreated health issues. Firemen getting to fires or accident and the safely is more a priority as the amount of training and lack of them has the potential to cause a bigger issues down the road as time goes by.

I also recommend that they have Video and audio recording devices on their persons as well as the vehicles. For Fireman heat cameras as well on the fire engines and light portable ones on their persons for recording the fire for investigations afterwards as well as seeing unseeing heat spots and help to find survivors through body heat and a quick evaluation of the victims external body temperature.

Recording Video/audio camera will not only help review situations for Prosecutions if necessary, but help to get the individual a different view on any potential mistakes or bad habits that they might not see themselves and is a very useful tool for self improvements, so they can do a better job in the future. Stressful situations can cause problems that the individual is not fully aware.

Richie15

IRLConor wrote: »

It's a pity that this bill didn't go through. I have to say though, my only objection is that it wasn't providing for mandatory minimum sentences for all assaults, not just for assaults on emergency workers.

That'd be great in theory, but the Gardaí, the courts and the prison service wouldn't have the resources to keep up.

Generally, people know the precautions to take to reduce the risk of being assaulted:

Keep away from certain areas, especially at night,
Don't go into strangers' houses,
Don't approach someone who looks highly intoxicated, ect.

I'm not saying we should have to take these precautions. We should live in a world where they're unnecessary, but we don't, so people are encouraged to look after their own personal safety as much as possible.

Frontline emergency service workers (including private companies and volunteers, but much more so the statutory services) are forced by the nature of the job to go into unsafe situations like these as a matter of course. Add to that the craze that was going around for a while (don't know if it still is?) of calling an ambulance and ambushing the crew for fun, you end up with a situation where crews refuse to go to certain areas without a Garda presence.

Not only is that highly detrimental to the response times and patient care, but it's also a massive drain on resources - that's the part I'm surprised the government didn't notice, it'd save them money!

IRLConor

Richie15 wrote: »

Keep away from certain areas, especially at night,
Don't go into strangers' houses,
Don't approach someone who looks highly intoxicated, ect.

I live and work in Dublin city centre. I'm careful, but the first and last of those pieces of advice aren't really useful unless I'm going to be a hermit.

Richie15

I didn't say it was a well-researched, definitive step-by-step guide! :P