What motortax they have in other countries?

CiniO

From few recent threads, (and also from chatting to people I know), I can see that most Irish people support idea of motortax. I understand that's a kind of tax that had to be paid here since long time ago, and probaby by now, everyone is so used to it, that people can't imagine that there could be no tax on vehicles...

Anyway - what I wanted to find out, is how Ireland compares to other countries in the world?

There is nearly 200 countries there. I wonder how many of them charge motortax?

And out of those who do, how many have it more expensive than Ireland?

To be honest, I'd be surpriced if Ireland wasn't in the first three....

Maybe someone has any stats?

Bpmull

In switzerland/ italy you don't pay motor tax provided you don't use the motorways. So locals who use back roads don't pay car tax. If you use the motorways it's about 40 euro a year regardless of engine size car. However the tolls are very high on motorways u would often pay 10 euro plus if on the motorway for long. The cost was calculated by distance.

In Cyprus everyone goes online on a set day and pays there car tax they print the disc off using their printer. This allows the government to bring in a bulk amount of money on one day. Cost is not that high no more than 200-300 euro but can't remember the exact figure. It's amazing how different all the systems are.

whomitconcerns

40€ a year for road tax(only if you drive outside Bucharest) in Romania. Not based on type of car. Just fixed charge prorated and payable for durations from 1 day to 1 year

Kenny Logins

UK system and rates here -

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_10012524

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

And out of those who do, how many have it more expensive than Ireland?

To be honest, I'd be surpriced if Ireland wasn't in the first three....

Maybe someone has any stats?

Depends almost entirely on the car, no?

Tommyboy40

I would pay £220 in uk but pay €683 here

awec

This post has been deleted.

recyclebin

Different countries use different systems so to get a true comparison you would need to take into account taxes on fuel, tolls, insurance, congestion charges, taxes on vehicle purchase price, etc, etc.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

I can see that most Irish people support idea of motortax.

I wouldnt say that most Irish people support motor tax; in fact Id say the majority are probably against it in principle. However, most people are realistic enough to know that were motor tax to be scrapped the money would have to come from somewhere, so its either coming from motor tax or an increase in income tax or whatever, but either way we will end up paying it.

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

And out of those who do, how many have it more expensive than Ireland?

To be honest, I'd be surpriced if Ireland wasn't in the first three....

Italy have very high motor tax rates, can't link up, on a phone...

Superbollo tax

Marlow

Denmarks motor tax is weight based until 1997 and then was changed to a co2 based system.

Prices are here: http://www.nysynet.dk/vagtafgift.htm (1 EUR = 7.5 DKK, so split by 7.5).

/M

Katunga

my car €626 here and in the uk were it was imported from it would be £120. Ripoff republic.

kdevitt

In real terms, its currently about SG$10k per year in Singapore (around EUR6200).

Its about EUR400 per year in Sydney, based on the cars weight category. I'd imagine Ireland is one of the cheaper places to run a modern low Co2 car.

Greenman

kdevitt wrote: »

Its about EUR400 per year in Sydney, based on the cars weight category. I'd imagine Ireland is one of the cheaper places to run a modern low Co2 car.

Do they still provide free third party insurance to all car road users who pay their road tax?

kdevitt

Greenman wrote: »

Do they still provide free third party insurance to all car road users who pay their road tax?

No, they never have. You need to pay rego (your road tax) and pay a separate CTP policy which covers other parties medical costs in the event of an at fault accident. Then you buy your standard comp insurance to cover property damage - its not compulsory, but I wouldn't fancy the thoughts of having to personally cover damage to someones car.

ShiresV2

CiniO wrote: »

I can see that most Irish people support idea of motortax.

I'll put this as politely as possible: fúck the state and their absurd motor tax.

In 1977 Fianna Fail scrapped rates and car tax in order to buy the election. In the aftermath we ended up with an absurd system of "taxation by envy" where Motor Tax is used purely to fund local authorities. Co. Dublin and the cities massively subsidise councils elsewhere in the country. It might not be so bad but the councils are without fail money pits, and motor tax compliance rates are rather lower in the areas that tend to be subsidised. I will happily take an itemised bill from my council instead and I think you all should too.

H3llR4iser

Bpmull wrote: »

In switzerland/ italy you don't pay motor tax provided you don't use the motorways. So locals who use back roads don't pay car tax. If you use the motorways it's about 40 euro a year regardless of engine size car. However the tolls are very high on motorways u would often pay 10 euro plus if on the motorway for long. The cost was calculated by distance.

In Cyprus everyone goes online on a set day and pays there car tax they print the disc off using their printer. This allows the government to bring in a bulk amount of money on one day. Cost is not that high no more than 200-300 euro but can't remember the exact figure. It's amazing how different all the systems are.

Wrong information for Italy. The "motor tax" in Italy is an ownership tax; no matter if the car is on the road or in storage, you have to pay it as long as the car is registered in your name. So, at least theoretically, there's no escaping it: if the registry shows you own a car and there's no record of motor tax paid, you'll eventually be caught and heavily fined (suffice to say, a speeding ticket there can be in excess of 300€, so make your permutations).

If you think the Irish dual system based on emission/capacity is complex, think again. In Italy, you pay a fixed price for each KW of power the car has. Sounds simple enough, except that the rate changes depending on with EU emissions directive the car falls under; To further complicate matters, every region (and in Italy there are 20) has different rates.

Here are the rates based on Lazio, the region Rome sits in:
EU Directive|Cost/KW <100KW|Cost/KW>100KW
Euro 1|3.00|4.50
Euro 2|2.90|4.35
Euro 3|2.80|4.20
Euro 4/5|2.58|3.87


But wait, there's more: if a car EXCLUSIVELY uses methane, GPL, Hydrogen or is even electrical, there's a flat rate of 2.58 Euro/KW; Even more, any car whose power exceeds 185 KW will pay a "supertax" of 20 Euro/KW for any KW exceding 185 (you read correctly, 20 Euro/KW) - this "supertax" rate decreases over the years to reach 0 when the car is 20 years old. Does the Irish system sound complicated anymore?

But let's proceed with real world examples, I'll proceed to calculate the tax for a few cars in different categories - starting with a couple of my own:
Car|Ireland|Italy
1997 Alfa Romeo 155 2.0 16v (Euro 2, 110KW)|660€|333€
2001 Renault Megane 1.4 (Euro 3, 70 KW) | 358€ | 196€
2008 Audi A4 TFSI (Euro 4, 132 KW) | 330€ | 382€
2008 Ford Focus 1.4 (Euro 4, 59 KW) | 481€ | 152€
2008 Ford Focus 1.6 TDCI (Euro 4, 74KW) | 160€ | 188€
2011 BMW 320d (Euro 5, 135 KW) | 160€ | 393€
2011 BMW 320i (Euro 5, 125 KW) | 330€ | 355€
2010 BMW M3 (Euro 5, 309 KW) | 2258€ |3067€
2011 Ferrari 458 Spider (Euro ?, 425 KW) | 2258€ |5387€



I could go on forever, but these calculations just show how absurd the emissions bases system is: while on the power based system, similar cars pay similar taxes independently from their age or type of fuel (the 15 years old Alfa Romeo and the two brand new BMW 320s pay more or less the same), the CO2 makes the 320d pay half what the other two 2.0 liters engines pay and, amazingly, only 1/3 of what a lowly 1.4 Focus pays.

I included the M3 and the Ferrari just for kicks, but they just highlight how lenient the Irish Co2 based system is with the more expensive cars/richer people.

Bpmull

Thanks for the correction it was Switzerland I was thinking off I was in both countries and just got confussed. It's a very different system they have in Italy good to know though thanks.

ShiresV2

ShiresV2 wrote: »

............ and motor tax compliance rates are rather lower in the areas that tend to be subsidised. I will happily take an itemised bill from my council instead and I think you all should too.

You have figures for this claim no doubt?

kasper

ShiresV2 wrote: »

I'll put this as politely as possible: fúck the state and their absurd motor tax.

In 1977 Fianna Fail scrapped rates and car tax in order to buy the election. In the aftermath we ended up with an absurd system of "taxation by envy" where Motor Tax is used purely to fund local authorities. Co. Dublin and the cities massively subsidise councils elsewhere in the country. It might not be so bad but the councils are without fail money pits, and motor tax compliance rates are rather lower in the areas that tend to be subsidised. I will happily take an itemised bill from my council instead and I think you all should too.

in jan 1981 cars up to and including 2012cc's are free of tax, but pay a yearly registration of 10 punts , elettrically powered vehicles had annual road tax of 22 punts

flyguy

Compared to the Netherlands taxing a car here is quite similar in price for an average family car.
The new system is based on emission and energy label which I know little of (introduced after I left the country).
The old system was interesting as the price was only based on the weight of the car (road wear was the argument) and the fuel type (petrol/diesel/hybrid/certified LPG/non certified LPG). So a heavy diesel SUV was much more expensive than a big engined lightweight petrol sports car (seems fair to me).
What wasn't fair that diesel has a tax penalty and still does (now it even has a VRT penalty added) but then the diesel is about 25-30 cent/ltr cheaper than petrol (which is about 1.90!! a litre at the moment).
Tax is almost exclusively paid via DD and is more of an ownership tax than a road tax (so you pay regardless of driving it).

What I don't like about the Irish tax is that it is so much more expensive to pay per 3/6 months than the full year. In Netherlands everyone pays via DD and if you sell your car your remaining tax if refunded into your account. Change of ownership only at post office with ID of buyer and seller to prevent fraud (not some paper slip in the post on which you can put what you like...)
The tax disc system itself is really outdated; they invented computers quite a while ago so it's easy to have a database to check if you car is insured/taxed/nct-ed. Not a single piece of paper on your windscreen in the Netherlands, all checked with ANPR database.

unkel

'86 Porsche 928 4.7l

Ireland: €1683
Netherlands: €0 (classic car exempt from motor tax)

'01 Saab 9-5 2.0l

Ireland: €680
Netherlands: €800

flyguy

Yeah few of those variations, but based on old system:

05 Porsche Boxster S (3.2L)
Ireland €1683
Netherlands €632

06 Range Rover Sport TDV6 (2.7L)
Ireland €1300
Netherlands €2748

professore

If it was an ownership tax rather than a usage tax it would save the state a fortune. No more countless Garda overtime hours checking tax, just send them over to the house of the owner who hasn't paid his tax and confiscate and crush the car - and fine the owner for the costs + commission. Better still, auction off the car and keep the proceeds.

Alternatively scrap car tax and put the extra tax on fuel, with rebates for companies and hauliage contractors to prevent business costs going through the roof.

H3llR4iser

flyguy wrote: »

...What wasn't fair that diesel has a tax penalty and still does (now it even has a VRT penalty added) but then the diesel is about 25-30 cent/ltr cheaper than petrol (which is about 1.90!! a litre at the moment).

Similar system was in use in Italy years ago, before FIAT came up with the common rail engines and realized there would be a big profit in selling a lot of diesel cars.

See, in Italy diesel fuel doesn't pay most of the taxes petrol pays at the pump, still being classified as "commercial fuel" - in other words, truck's fuel. As a result, it used to be considerably cheaper - in the past, up to 35-40% cheaper than petrol. To compensate for this, there was a "supertax" for diesel cars; It was scrapped and reintroduced many times, until definitively ditched in the late '90s - again, in order to make FIAT a favour (as it goes in any country that has a major, economy-moving industry).

So, technically speaking, most people driving a diesel car in Italy are evading taxes with the "go ahead" of the government (and the pleasure of petrol companies that put the prices up to almost the same level as petrol, thus making bigger profits).

What I don't like about the Irish tax is that it is so much more expensive to pay per 3/6 months than the full year. In Netherlands everyone pays via DD and if you sell your car your remaining tax if refunded into your account. Change of ownership only at post office with ID of buyer and seller to prevent fraud (not some paper slip in the post on which you can put what you like...)
The tax disc system itself is really outdated; they invented computers quite a while ago so it's easy to have a database to check if you car is insured/taxed/nct-ed. Not a single piece of paper on your windscreen in the Netherlands, all checked with ANPR database.

What I don't like of the system here, is that the whole CO2 thing is beyond unfair and has no connection whatsoever with the type/class/price of the car you drive. It essentially offers big loopholes for some luxury cars as long as they are diesel, and gives kicks in the family jewels to anybody that can't afford a recent car.

pred racer

In France motor tax is included on fuel, diesel is currently €1.40.

Matt Simis

ShiresV2 wrote: »

I will happily take an itemised bill from my council instead and I think you all should too.

I agree, but ironically from the other perspective.
I think you would find your council services bill is a lot higher than those in proper rural country as you have:

- Running water from a tap! I have a Well I have to service and maintain it myself too and buy and replace the well pump etc.
- Water treatment, I have to buy and maintain (monthly cost) a water softener and handle decontamination myself.
- Septic waste removal, I have a septic tank, your toilet flushes and that issue is not yours anymore, its the Councils.
I now have to pay a tax to the government who will send out a man to tell me I have to service or upgrade it.
All the costs associated with septic tank maintenance are bore by me.
- There is one bus here. Thats the entire support infrastructure.
- Locals maintain there own local roads, council provide some vague maintenance on the other ones.
- Electricity without a rural surcharge, unlike everyone else.


You also will find that even if people "in the country" have less compliance with motor tax, they pay vastly more fuel tax (which is handily far more than motor tax per year) than those driving <20km / 17min from one side of Dublin/City to the other everyday. This is unavoidable as there is no real public transport infrastructure.

CiniO

So as I see we got already info from good few countries I'll add Poland to this.

There is not motor tax on cars and vans and motorcycles (up to 3.5tonne).
However there are tolls on motorways. Except from few privately managed motorways which are slightly more expensive, generally toll is 2.5 cents per km (2.5 euro per 100km). Also there isn't too many motorways there anyway, and some of them are still for free, but this will change soon.

Heavier vehicles (trucks and buses) must pay roadtax which is GVW (gross vehicle weight) dependent and cost between 120 and 600 euro per annum.
Also trucks and buses must pay roadtolls on all motorways, expressways, and some national roads.


Another interesting thing (however not tax relates) is that every vehicle must be insured at all times. It's responsibility of vehicle owner to maintain insurance cover at all times on a vehicle which is registered in his name. Even one day gap attract hefty penalties. There is also no legal way to declare car off the road and stop paying it. Every car must have at least third party insurance cover at all times, until it's scrapped or exported.

Henry Ford III

Does it really matter what other countries do?

Like it or lump it but if you live here you're obliged to pay the piper. That includes road tax, and it doesn't matter one bit if that's a fair tax or otherwise.

bazz26

The term fair tax is a contradiction when you think about it. If it was fair it would not be a tax.

H3llR4iser

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Does it really matter what other countries do?

Like it or lump it but if you live here you're obliged to pay the piper. That includes road tax, and it doesn't matter one bit if that's a fair tax or otherwise.

BMW 320d driver, obviously

Jokes aside, it's not a problem about it being cheaper/dearer than somewhere else as the Irish economy, believe it or not, it's still one of the richest in the EU: while my salary is very average for Ireland, most of my friends that do the same job and still live in Italy earn half of what I do. So, it is expected for the same car to pay roughly double the tax here.

The problem lies in the fact that the newer system clearly does not work when a 1.4 runaround Focus pays thrice the price of a 2.0 luxury 3 Series, and has opened a dangerous loophole where people can pay hundreds of euro less in motor tax by acquiring a post-2008 car. As the years go by it will prove to be a huge drain on the state's tax income, there WILL be the need to look for that money somewhere else and you can bet your pants on the fact that whatever new tax or tax rate they'll come up with, will hit hard and will hit everybody.