Querie on Land Ownership

deeksofdoom · 04-10-2012 4:38pm #1

Lads and Lassies,

Is it possible to buy a few acres of land and let it just sit there without doing anything with it?

Would you have to pay public liability insurance?

Would you have to ensure that there is no dumping carried out on the land and keep it clean if there was?

What other hidden costs are there associated with buying land?

Thanks for your help.

yellow50HX · 04-10-2012 6:14pm

Strange idea, why would you buy land to do nothing with it???????

supersean1999 · 04-10-2012 7:33pm

yellow50HX wrote: »

Strange idea, why would you buy land to do nothing with it???????

id imagine an investment, there not making anymore of it and its under valued now, if i was in a position id love to buy as much as possible ,

rancher · 04-10-2012 8:30pm

yellow50HX wrote: »

Strange idea, why would you buy land to do nothing with it???????

A few property developers around me must have bought land to propagate ragwort, seems to be working very well

rancher · 04-10-2012 8:34pm

supersean1999 wrote: »

id imagine an investment, ,

''Safe as houses''

caseman · 04-10-2012 9:02pm

supersean1999 wrote: »

id imagine an investment, there not making anymore of it and its under valued now, if i was in a position id love to buy as much as possible ,

As a investment what would the return be like.
And for being under valued i'd think the complete opposite.

iverjohnston · 04-10-2012 9:20pm

No law to compell you to use your land in a particular way. You would have to keep the hedges cut back from the roadside, if along a road. If there are trees overhanging thre road, insurance would be a good idea. I wouldn't want to give more than 4 or 5 thousand an acre myself. You could plant a bit of ground cover and make a nature reserve if you liked. Or a shoot (depending on location/neighbours etc) What size of a plot had you in mind?

Lots of good reasond to have a bit of land, you could put a mobile or a caravan in the corner of a field and just relax there, or just have the fields to build a house to retire to. Or grow your own food, or rent out to a sheep farmer, in exchange for a lamb or two for the freezer. If you don't go crazy, price wise, it will never lose. Iver,Cavan.
If you have blackthorn hedges,or whins, you need to keep the buggers from spreading out into the field, or in 15 years you will only have a clearing in the middle!

rancher · 04-10-2012 9:27pm

caseman wrote: »

As a investment what would the return be like.
And for being under valued i'd think the complete opposite.

Agree... can't believe it has stayed as high as it has

yellow50HX · 04-10-2012 9:44pm

supersean1999 wrote: »

id imagine an investment, there not making anymore of it and its under valued now, if i was in a position id love to buy as much as possible ,

Buying it for an investment is a good idea, but what's the point of buying land and then sitting it to grow in value? If you buy a house you don't lock the doors and wait for the value to go up? Same with land.

If you we're to buy for investment but had not interest in farming it you could rent it out that way it's paying something back

Timmaay · 04-10-2012 9:55pm

supersean1999 wrote: »

id imagine an investment, there not making anymore of it and its under valued now, if i was in a position id love to buy as much as possible ,

Considering rental value of land is say 200euro/acre (much lower in many cases), and say the land itself is worth 10grand an acre. Rate of return is 2%, lower than most savings account! Any logical reasoning will tell you that the only way land values should be going is down!
However we don't live in a logical world at all, market sentiment dictates the price and as long as people see it to be "as safe as houses" and they believe that fiat currency's like the euro/dollar are doomed, they see the risk of putting money into land as less of a risk!

yellow50HX · 05-10-2012 7:49am

Timmaay wrote: »

Considering rental value of land is say 200euro/acre (much lower in many cases), and say the land itself is worth 10grand an acre. Rate of return is 2%, lower than most savings account! Any logical reasoning will tell you that the only way land values should be going is down!
However we don't live in a logical world at all, market sentiment dictates the price and as long as people see it to be "as safe as houses" and they believe that fiat currency's like the euro/dollar are doomed, they see the risk of putting money into land as less of a risk!

which brings me back to my orginal question, why would you buy land with out a plan for using it?

If your not into farming and are speculating on the land value to rise then the land can be rented/leased out at no cost to the owner, €150/acre is better than €0/acre. even if the land is only making a small amount of money its value is being mainatined. if you want to sell land for farming which is more valuable, land that has beening used and looked after (ie tilled) or a feild of rushes and ragworth with a couple of burned out cars and building rubble thrown in a corner

iverjohnston · 05-10-2012 8:20am

Hi Timmaay and Yellow 50hX,
Have a look at some of the original posters other posts and threads, and you will see what he is interested in. Just because he claims to have no plans for the land, dosen't mean he hasn't a plan in the back of his mind!
iver in Cavan

deeksofdoom · 05-10-2012 8:30am

The reason I'm askig the question is because I'm a member of a gun club and some of the other members want to buy land to develope a nature reserve.

I'm just trying to find out if the club did buy the land what other cost factors would have to be considered for the long term.

It would be naive to think that you could just buy land and that would be it.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Timmaay · 05-10-2012 12:09pm

iverjohnston wrote: »

Hi Timmaay and Yellow 50hX,
Have a look at some of the original posters other posts and threads, and you will see what he is interested in. Just because he claims to have no plans for the land, dosen't mean he hasn't a plan in the back of his mind!
iver in Cavan

I was replying specifically to superseans comment! Misguided love in my view :P

supersean1999 · 05-10-2012 11:03pm

Timmaay wrote: »

I was replying specifically to superseans comment! Misguided love in my view :P

so you think the the price of land wont ever rise again , how silly are you, i said if i was in a position id buy as much as possible, when did i say i would not farm it, the op that made them comment, my thinking of it was if i was in a position to buy land mortgage free, and believe me there is loads in this country who still could, then its a no lose situation , and as for the smart comments about houses etc, :eek: thats all

supersean1999 · 05-10-2012 11:09pm

rancher wrote: »

A few property developers around me must have bought land to propagate ragwort, seems to be working very well

did they pay 7000k an acre or did they pay 1.75 m for two acres outside a town, this is a farming forum so when i made the point about buying land i was not on about your developer friends - neighbours, paying crazy money off to the gambling forum with ya

rancher · 06-10-2012 6:44am

supersean1999 wrote: »

did they pay 7000k an acre or did they pay 1.75 m for two acres outside a town, this is a farming forum so when i made the point about buying land i was not on about your developer friends - neighbours, paying crazy money off to the gambling forum with ya

34,000 and 50,000ac......agri price seven years ago, one of them offered me 40,000/ac in the middle of the country AND to think these guys will now be entitled to the new flat rate payment in the SFP

supersean1999 · 06-10-2012 10:29am

rancher wrote: »

34,000 and 50,000ac......agri price seven years ago, one of them offered me 40,000/ac in the middle of the country AND to think these guys will now be entitled to the new flat rate payment in the SFP

haha you could be sitting under the sun in st lucia ,

rancher · 06-10-2012 12:09pm

supersean1999 wrote: »

haha you could be sitting under the sun in st lucia ,

Often think of it, but then I'd surely have put it in bank shares.....murphys law etc

supersean1999 · 06-10-2012 1:36pm

rancher wrote: »

Often think of it, but then I'd surely have put it in bank shares.....murphys law etc

ya i get ya, i would not sell our land for any money either,

periodictable · 06-10-2012 6:06pm

be aware of the doctrine of adverse possession,ie someone who tries to take title

deeksofdoom · 07-10-2012 12:48am

periodictable wrote: »

be aware of the doctrine of adverse possession,ie someone who tries to take title

Thanks for being the only person who came back with some useful information.

supersean1999 · 07-10-2012 10:01am

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Thanks for being the only person who came back with some useful information.

how about you go and get some legal advice and spend a little bit instead of looking for free advice, or are you saving it all for the land ,

yellow50HX · 07-10-2012 11:02am

supersean1999 wrote: »

did they pay 7000k an acre or did they pay 1.75 m for two acres outside a town, this is a farming forum so when i made the point about buying land i was not on about your developer friends - neighbours, paying crazy money off to the gambling forum with ya

Most of those are in Nama now, that said I do know of development land that has tractors and cattle on it rather than ragworts.

iverjohnston · 07-10-2012 6:40pm

Hi Perodictable,
Very interesting point. If a gunclub or single person buys a piece of land, and there is one member who rears poults/ traps vermin/ sows cover crop, for 12 years, could that person claim squatters rights? Iver in Cavan

periodictable · 08-10-2012 9:47pm

iverjohnston wrote: »

Hi Perodictable,
Very interesting point. If a gunclub or single person buys a piece of land, and there is one member who rears poults/ traps vermin/ sows cover crop, for 12 years, could that person claim squatters rights? Iver in Cavan

On those facts possibly. There must be intent to occupy and possess, and other elements. One could argue that it is beneficial, in that it helps prevents land from being underutilised and therefore being unproductive. There was a recent case where the occupier claimed that he had ousted the possessor in title from the land becasue the owner had not set foot on it in all the whie it was occupied, but the judge held that although the owner had not crossed the boundary fence, he had parked on the roadside, and stood on the road to observe the property, and in effect was on his property,as the subsoil under the road surface belongs to the land on either side to the centre point of the road.
Here's an interesting outline of what's involved in adverse possession

http://www.mjoc.ie/home_nav_59_nid_16_y_2008_m_05.html

I've ordered this book http://www.claruspress.ie/neighbours_and_the_law.html
it looks good- others came out recently including one by Willie Penrose but they were patchy and extremely unclear with poor caselaw. This guy beat me to it-was planning this book:( so hopefully it is clear, concise, readable with some good examples.

Thinking on Iver's question, it would be easier I think for the member to get an easement or a right to carry on his activities, provided that he did so fo a 20 year uninterrupted period. For example if someone for years parks their vehicle on a piece of your property, and you have not given them permission to do it, then after 20 years they have acquired the right to do that. I heard of a case where in a semi-d the water tank of one house had been moved across into the space of the other house, and the attic of the first house used for storage. When the house was for sale, the buyer withdrew when the second home owner refused to remove his tank to his own side saying that he had acquired a right to have it located on his neighbour's property.

Querie on Land Ownership

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