Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown county council

Trampas

There was person from the council on Joe Duffy today and said there is 1000 people employed by the council.

Which seems a lot of people.

Then I looked up the census and

The population of the county is 206,261 according to the 2011 census

So we have one council employee for every 200 people. That is madness and seems a right waste of money.

Jaysoose

I heard the show and the county official that was on is obviously operating in a bubble, local business people on detailing the various issues were met with complete disrespect on her part.

Delusional isnt a strong enough word to describe her view of things. Every single person on was telling her that the cost of parking was a major deterrant but she wasnt having any of it.

These are the people that are actually running businesses on the high street and can see every bit of revenue being removed from their books and the official wouldnt concede a thing.

Lambsbread

What services do the councils provide now? Without wanting to start any arguments, it would be interesting to see how that 1000 breaks down. Since refuse collections and parking enforcement (and maybe others) are privatized I wonder what the council services are!

Lumbo

Lambsbread wrote: »

What services do the councils provide now? Without wanting to start any arguments, it would be interesting to see how that 1000 breaks down. Since refuse collections and parking enforcement (and maybe others) are privatized I wonder what the council services are!

Why don't you look at your local Council's website? The annual budgets and corporate plans will give you the best indication.

Some of the services provided in my area include Local Authority Housing, Maintenance of Parks, Roads, Community Services, Planning & Development, Libraries & Environmental Services.

n97 mini

That woman from the council was very disrespectful, branding one of the local business owners as a proponent of "Dreary Dun Laoghaire". Thankfully she was thoroughly taken to task over it.

It really amazed me when the local business owners were telling her all the things that were wrong, that she replied by telling them that they were wrong.

Shameful stuff really.

Jaysoose

n97 mini wrote: »

That woman from the council was very disrespectful, branding one of the local business owners as a proponent of "Dreary Dun Laoghaire". Thankfully she was thoroughly taken to task over it.

It really amazed me when the local business owners were telling her all the things that were wrong, that she replied by telling them that they were wrong.

Shameful stuff really.

The main point being she can afford to be wrong when she is spending tax payers money..the business people dont have this luxury.

Lantus

Trampas wrote: »

There was person from the council on Joe Duffy today and said there is 1000 people employed by the council.

Which seems a lot of people.

Then I looked up the census and

The population of the county is 206,261 according to the 2011 census

So we have one council employee for every 200 people. That is madness and seems a right waste of money.

Ratios of people per population tell us nothing really except that there are so many people per so many people. Its the same with TD's per population when people say it should be 1td per 25,000 and not per 20,000.

What determines that figure? Some 'feeling' or sense of slight betterment or change?

For every job the number of people required should be determined by the requirements of the job and a survey of the tasks required.

Anyway, the REAL problem is the antiquated system of county councils and service delivery. County boundaries are over 800 years old determined by ancient kings long dead and yet we try to use them (and fail) to deliver 21st century services.

All county boundaries should be abandoned for the provision of technical services. A survey done to establish the best method of dividing up the country and economies of scale delivered. At a rough guess we could estimate that 4 city councils for the top 4 urban areas and then 4 or 5 local area governments for the rest of the country should suffice.

This council is no different from any other of the 32 or so in existence in that they offer no value for money, are wasteful and innefficient and duplicate everything 30+ times for a very small population.

Farmer Pudsey

I heard most of the show today and yesterday. The council Offical was the transport officer who was ranked an executive officer. The buisness people were complaining about the cost of parking, it enforcement which the buisness people complained that this was frighting away customers.

What amazed me was first that it employed 1000 people, next even though it employed this amount it had contracted out the parking enforcement. This contract gauranteed 35K tickets by one interviewee and 45K by another. Next the Executive officer stated all the money the council was spending on attractions in Dunlaoghaire. What amazes me is the fact that council officals do not seem to relise that window boxes and hanging baskets and seats do not attract punters to spend money. Especially when you can go to Liffey Valley and park for free.

How she came on to defend it after what was said yesterday and she was very arragont. I believe that some of these PS live in a cosy tearoom circle and have no relisation of what is happening in the real world. They seem to have no concept of the pressure private small buisness's are under and seem to think the said seats, window boxes , and pesestrian streets will cure all our problems

Lumbo

What is this thread meant to be about?

Farmer Pudsey

Lumbo wrote: »

What is this thread meant to be about?

What it seem to be about is the cocoon that Dunlaoghaire/Rathdown County council live in. I do not live anywhere near it and have only been there once however what I heard on the radio today and yesterday is symptomatic of what happens accross county councils accross Ireland.

Godge

Lumbo wrote: »

What is this thread meant to be about?

Another excuse to bash public servants.

You know 1,000 out of 200,000 is 0.5% so all of the problems of Dun Laoghaire can be laid at the feet of the 0.5% - haven't you read the thread?

Occupy got it wrong, don't blame the rich 1%, blame the 0.5% local authority workers.

Dannyboy83

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I heard most of the show today and yesterday. The council Offical was the transport officer who was ranked an executive officer. The buisness people were complaining about the cost of parking, it enforcement which the buisness people complained that this was frighting away customers.

What amazed me was first that it employed 1000 people, next even though it employed this amount it had contracted out the parking enforcement. This contract gauranteed 35K tickets by one interviewee and 45K by another.

The parking meters won't last much longer outside Cork & Dublin I reckon, it's already established that most councils spend more than they collect to operate the system:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pressure-to-scrap-parking-fees-as-councils-lose-money-3026973.html
The figures, obtained from budget reports from all local authorities, showed the cost of enforcing traffic by-laws is costing well in excess of the revenue generated in many areas.

The budget reports show:

- Ten local authorities spent a total of €3.9m in 2011 on parking enforcement, but generated just €2.5m in fees.

- Of these, the highest spend versus income was in Kerry, which spent €620,149, but only collected €79,000.

- Another eight town councils also ran loss-making parking services, spending more than €1.2m but only receiving €712,000 in fees.

- Among the high-spenders include Ballinasloe in Galway, which spent almost €325,000 but only collected €252,000.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Next the Executive officer stated all the money the council was spending on attractions in Dunlaoghaire.
What amazes me is the fact that council officals do not seem to realize that window boxes and hanging baskets and seats do not attract punters to spend money. Especially when you can go to Liffey Valley and park for free.

This was also the part that really stood out to me also.
It's like they read the Michael O'Leary book on how to do business - then do the opposite.

They have a very different thought process to the business owners.
The business owners urgently need to reduce costs as much as possible so they can try to survive, while the councils thought process seems to be to the exact opposite - increase charges so they have something to do!

Lambsbread

In my hometown (Youghal) there probably weren't even any businesses left to ring up Joe Duffy to complain about the council. If there ever was an example of a council running a town into the ground it must be a case study. At the same time when businesses were shutting down on the main street, the council introduced parking charges. It seems counterproductive. This coupled with poor planning -> creating a retail park on the outskirts of town (Tesco and Lidl) with FREE parking killed the town centre and where there is noting in the town centre vistors will not come. They can visit their own Tescos/Aldi/Lidl.

The idea of bringing in parking charges is a revenue exercise. Did they say on Joe Duffy that for DL/Rathdown they bring in €6m a year? Rather than looking inward at the council and looking to become more efficient, they look to extort more revenue from ordinary people!

I am on the road to a rant, but it is something that annoys me so much. I could talk at length about the problems with the council in Youghal. 5 minutes reading the council meeting notes that are about 75% of the time is spent on pothole problems would give anyone an indication of the councils issues. This is in a town that is dying slowly. But it seems that targeting the ordinary people for higher charges is the solution as always.

Rather than making our councils more efficient, lets introduce bin charges/water charges/parking charges/household charge. The banks need more money, give them tax payers money and let them increase charges and mortgage rates. You can't get out of a recession by taking money from people for inefficient services!!! Make our councils efficient and free resources in the economy for areas that are efficient and worthwhile.

This applies for everything in the country -> our councils, public services, government. We have already started this in the private sector with construction companies going bust and banks being closed (but not fast enough and still managing to cost the taxpayer too much).

View

Trampas wrote: »

So we have one council employee for every 200 people. That is madness and seems a right waste of money.

As a general rule, the more "public facing" an organization is, the more staff to people there are.

For instance, the European Commission ratio is around 1 employee per 15,000 people.

In the HSE alone, never mind the rest of our State's governmental bodies, they have a ratio of around 1 employee for every 45 people.

Globally, most local councils would provide more services directly to the people (rather than via central government departments as here) and hence would have even more staff to public than DLR does.

ardmacha

So we have one council employee for every 200 people. That is madness and seems a right waste of money.

Is it inappropriate? Ireland has one of the lowest proportions of the workforce in local government in the OECD. I accept that these services are often inefficient, but the overall employment level is not.

The parking meters won't last much longer outside Cork & Dublin I reckon, it's already established that most councils spend more than they collect to operate the system:

People's propensity to visit a location is as much determined by the availability of parking as the cost of it (to an extent anyhow). The point about parking is that you have to have a time limitation of some sort, otherwise the street simply fills up with those working in the businesses, not those patronising them. Once you have a time limitation a warden is needed and someone has to pay for him/her so parking charges do this and also encourage people to move along, allowing another customer arrive.

I doubt whether either Dun Laoghaire or Youghal have loads of vacant parking spaces.

View

Just related to the issue of traffic wardens, the case of Aberystwyth - who abolished parking enforcement for a year resulting in complete chaos - resulted in this:

One year later...

tails_naf

View wrote: »

Just related to the issue of traffic wardens, the case of Aberystwyth - who abolished parking enforcement for a year resulting in complete chaos - resulted in this:

One year later...

There is a difference between charging for legal parking and NO parking enforcement whatsoever. Business owners were rightly saying that the parking costs were keeping business away. I don't think anyone was suggesting free or very cheap parking could only be brought about by scrapping all parking rules!!

Farmer Pudsey

tails_naf wrote: »

There is a difference between charging for legal parking and NO parking enforcement whatsoever. Business owners were rightly saying that the parking costs were keeping business away. I don't think anyone was suggesting free or very cheap parking could only be brought about by scrapping all parking rules!!

Another issue that came up was that the County Council rented car parking spaces in a car park which was one of the few that was in the vicinity of the town centre. The council EO started listing car parks that were available but according to the buisness people these were further from the town centre

Dannyboy83

ardmacha wrote: »

People's propensity to visit a location is as much determined by the availability of parking as the cost of it (to an extent anyhow). The point about parking is that you have to have a time limitation of some sort, otherwise the street simply fills up with those working in the businesses, not those patronising them. Once you have a time limitation a warden is needed and someone has to pay for him/her so parking charges do this and also encourage people to move along, allowing another customer arrive.

I doubt whether either Dun Laoghaire or Youghal have loads of vacant parking spaces.

Dun Laoighaire, no idea tbh.

Youghal is a desert.
Bandon is probably worse, given the proximity to Cork.
The parking meters in Bandon killed off what was left of the business there and have cost the LA money. It has the same setup as Youghal, a Supervalu and Lidl with plenty of free parking.
People started parking in the church car park, but the church got pissed off with that and put up barriers.

I agree with your point, it's important to strike a balance between cost of parking/parking availability, but this is more urgent in a thriving area, such as Dublin City Centre.

I'd say in the case of Dun Laoghire, it's more urgent to take the pressure off struggling businesses by any means possible.
Specifically, it may have been more beneficial for them to use the revenue gained from parking to reduce the rates for the businesses - unsustainable rates were identified as one of the main factors that were causing businesses to close.
Something along these lines - reducing the cost to business and improving their ability to weather the economic collapse.

Instead the money appears to have been spent on flower boxes...not exactly a Forbes 500 quality idea.

Pete_Cavan

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The buisness people were complaining about the cost of parking, it enforcement which the buisness people complained that this was frighting away customers.

Whats the alternative, let everyone working in the town park there all day for free leaving no parking spaces for shoppers or social/leisure visitors?

Farmer Pudsey

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Whats the alternative, let everyone working in the town park there all day for free leaving no parking spaces for shoppers or social/leisure visitors?

No but when you have a private firm with a contract to enforce 35K or 45K tickets it leaves little to imagination. Car parking fees are used as a revenue generator by County Councils as other posters stated nobody is advocating free parking rather a lest expensive system on shoppers. This is an issue right accross cities and town's in Ireland expensive parking is driving shoppers out of town center's.

The cost is often in the region of 2 euro's/ hour in central locations. This means that the shopper that is pricing a certain product such as Electrical goods or flooring will head for a retail park rather that a town center. The contributor on Joe Duffy had a flower shop which is a fast purchase item, why pay 2 euro's parking to look at the flower boxes and hanging baskets when you can get them in a Tesco or ALDI with free parking

Maybe we need a validated parking where you input your car number into a parking machine that will give you a reduced or free rate for the first hour or two after that you pay. Parking might end up revenue neutral rather than a revenue generator spend on expensive flower pots.

n97 mini

View wrote: »

Just related to the issue of traffic wardens, the case of Aberystwyth - who abolished parking enforcement for a year resulting in complete chaos - resulted in this:

One year later...

That's completely OT. The police didn't enforce the law so Traffic Wardens had to be re-introduced. Doesn't say much for the police does it!

Gumbo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The contributor on Joe Duffy had a flower shop which is a fast purchase item, why pay 2 euro's parking to look at the flower boxes and hanging baskets when you can get them in a Tesco or ALDI with free parking

Why not put 20c in the machine to cover you for 2-3 mins?
Parking is the same in the North, in Blefast last month i had to pay 2.70 stg for one hour.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Maybe we need a validated parking where you input your car number into a parking machine that will give you a reduced or free rate for the first hour or two after that you pay. Parking might end up revenue neutral rather than a revenue generator spend on expensive flower pots.

This should be looked at imo. The carpark at the old Dundrum centre gives free parking if you purchase something IIRC, was over there in the baby shop and the ticket gets validated by the supermarket.