Driving on the Dock Road(outbound).

Swiper the fox

OK in the spirit of a couple of other threads from the last few days here is what cracks me up on the roads of Limerick. This is so annoying I'm sure it's been done here before, if so could someone provide a link.
Coming out of town as far as Dolans you should only be in the left lane if you are turning left, this seems to be respected in the main but only because there is no traffic build up there and you can move freely. After Dolans there are two lanes which merge into one by the large Topaz/Centra. This is where I get mad, maybe I'm a fool but like most other people I join the left lane queue and watch as the people who think their time is more important than me and the others zoom up my right and indicate left when they feel like it, I'm sure most of you have been in this situation, either like me or the asshole(as i refer to them). The worst part is that many of them indicate in before they come to the end while those who make it to the end seem to expect a one from this lane/one from that lane situation, you don't need to be a mathematician to see that the people in the queue are being doubly screwed here.
By the way I'm the guy who never under any circumstances lets anyone in, even if its an old lady I can't make an exception, I will drive on the footpath to make my point, I can't understand how anyone ever lets someone in who has just skipped a queue you may have spent 10 minutes in.
Any thoughts?

Berty

Look at it another way.

There is no queue. The right lane is also a perfectly legal lane and you don't have to merge until you get to the end of it. Why would the lane exist otherwise?

If you are happy to sit in the left lane with an empty right lane then so be it.

BTW, I don't use the Dock road when its busy because I hate being caught up in the left lane/right lane thing.

EDIT The above comes off snarky. Not my intention.

Swiper the fox

Beer Baron wrote: »

Look at it another way.

There is no queue. The right lane is also a perfectly legal lane and you don't have to merge until you get to the end of it. Why would the lane exist otherwise?

If you are happy to sit in the left lane with an empty right lane then so be it.

BTW, I don't use the Dock road when its busy because I hate being caught up in the left lane/right lane thing.

EDIT The above comes off snarky. Not my intention.

Therein lies the problem for me I think, it appears to be perfectly legal, my problem is that the queue exists and everybody is going the same way, I don't consider myself or my time more special than anyone elses. If there is a queue I am prepared to wait in it despite my increasing and probably unwarranted anger, I assume this is the thinking of others also and that is why the queue forms, two lanes merging into one make no sense there and as far as i can see it doesn't get you out of town any quicker unless you have no regard for your fellow road users.

Berty

Swiper the fox wrote: »

two lanes merging into one make no sense there and as far as i can see it doesn't get you out of town any quicker unless you have no regard for your fellow road users.

I agree with that. This is why the Tipperary flyover is such a success now because traffic is more or less gone outbound and it's the same reason I try to avoid the dock road.

Do a quick thread search back when the tunnel was being built and the Shannon D/C was down to one lane by the Two Mile Inn.

The "Queue" thing was brought up on that thread so many times and trucks often drove down the middle of the road blocking the lanes(illegaly) so people couldn't use the right lane.

Problem is that other countries are experienced in merging lanes and the zipper effect. The problem is with Irish drivers because they just don't want anybody getting ahead of them.

Swiper the fox

Beer Baron wrote: »

I agree with that. This is why the Tipperary flyover is such a success now because traffic is more or less gone outbound and it's the same reason I try to avoid the dock road.

Do a quick thread search back when the tunnel was being built and the Shannon D/C was down to one lane by the Two Mile Inn.

The "Queue" thing was brought up on that thread so many times and trucks often drove down the middle of the road blocking the lanes(illegaly) so people couldn't use the right lane.

Problem is that other countries are experienced in merging lanes and the zipper effect. The problem is with Irish drivers because they just don't want anybody getting ahead of them.

Read my opening post again regards the zipper thing, people don't mind someone getting in front of them as long as it seems fair, some people are in a real hurry and i don't begrudge them but I'm not letting them in unless they roll down the window and ask nicely. I'm all for merging traffic but as I said most indicate in before the very end, the ones at the end expect the zipper thing then, that is ridiculous and as I said it's doubly screwing anyone who waited. I would be much happier if both lanes were queuing and merging at the end but I don't know how to make it happen.

bazz26

Like most half arsed Irish soluntions it is flawed in the way it is designed and the way it is used. Outside lane users can see the end of their lane, see the queue of traffic on inside but continue to drive on up to the end of the lane and then try and bully their way into the inside lane again.

I have no issue letting someone in who stops next to me and indicates politely to merge in front of me but I don't have time for anyone who tries to force their way in without even acknowledging that they are merging back into the inside lane.

fl4pj4ck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_merge

In traffic engineering, the late merge or zipper method is a convention for merging traffic into a reduced number of lanes. Drivers are expected to use all available lanes and then merge at the last opportunity, taking turns between incoming lanes.
The late merge method contrasts with the early merge method. A related scheme is the dynamic late merge.
By following the late merge it reduces traffic jams as the ending lane will be used until its end and there is only one slow down location at the merge.
In some countries like Austria or Germany the driver have to use the late merge by law.

In other words, OP: you're doing it wrong (not sure if illegal, but wrong).

Swiper the fox

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_merge



In other words, OP: you're doing it wrong (not sure if illegal, but wrong).

What the hell????:(:confused:

mgbgt1978

The idea behind the "two lanes" is to move traffic away from the Shannon Bridge and Roundabout area. This is then meant to allow the roundabout to move more freely in all directions.
As regards the two lanes further out the Dock Rd there is at least one Merge sign posted there which would indicate that during heavy traffic conditions cars should merge in turn.
The OP should note that it is an offence not to allow an overtaking car to return to the left.......don't blame me, I didn't write the rules.

Bobo78

I use the right lane and will continue to use it as long as its there and I m not doing anything illegal. :P:D
But I never force myself into someone else, first suitable gap that I find i use it.

Cork Boy

If the right/outside lane was only allowable by a continuous white line coming from the roundabout so that only those coming in from the bridge could use it that would be fair enough.

Similar disaster exists going from Railway Bar around to Hyde Road, people intentionally move to the outside at the Railway and then speed up and try to force their way back in at the last minute - even burning the second the lights go green to go straight through or even left!!!

At least there they put a continuous white line so it's an early merge but it's completely ignored.

One last one...

At roxboro roundabout if I approach from old cork road and want to go towards roxboro station (last exit from my side) should i not be staying on the inside lane until I'm exiting? Every morning people do the 270 degree trip around the roundabout in the outside lane and get pissed when i zip past them in the inside lane??? Or am I wrong?

Cork Boy

Bobo78 wrote: »

I use the right lane and will continue to use it as long as its there and I m not doing anything illegal. :P:D
But I never force myself into someone else, first suitable gap that I find i use it.

More than fair - I think the OP implied when no such gap occurs though.

savagecabbages

Speaking of the Dock Road, there is another highly dangerous (well unclear anyway) piece of road marking at the Shannonbridge roundabout. If you're coming down Mallow St and going across Shannon Bridge there are 3 lanes:

Left ¦ Straight ahead ¦ Straight ahead+Right
http://goo.gl/maps/cOEe4

On entering the roundabout you can use either the centre or right-most lane to cross the bridge.
On exiting the roundabout onto the bridge there is only one lane!
Manys a close shave i've had when i'd pull in at the same time as another driver and one of us has to decide who has right of way into the single outbound lane. I assume the centre lane has right of way as its explicitly straight on, and the inside roundabout lane has to pull across the outside one to leave the roundabout, but i've often had to give way to someone whos not paying attention simply to avoid an accident. I'd sooner avoid the smash than protect my right of way...

Cork Boy

savagecabbages wrote: »

I'd sooner avoid the smash than protect my right of way...

Good man. You have an obligation to drive with your eyes open. I had a customer whose claim went 50/50 (each insurer pays 50% of the total claim for both parties rendering both no claims bonuses/claim histories affected) even though he was the one driving the right way down a one way street.

Itsdacraic

That right lane on the dock road is godsend. I don't understand why people would queue like chumps (but long may it stay that way) back as far as Dolans when you can glide up as far as Topaz on the outside

Builderfromhell

Itsdacraic wrote: »

That right lane on the dock road is godsend. I don't understand why people would queue like chumps (but long may it stay that way) back as far as Dolans when you can glide up as far as Topaz on the outside

There are plenty of examples of where people follow the herd and use only one lane where two exist. For example;
1. William st. is two laned but most drivers insist on only using the left lane, this causes delays all the way back to the bridge.
2. Mallow street down to Jury's roundabout. People heading for bridge always queque for middle lane eventhough right hand lane is also for heading over bridge. Again, this slows everyone down from leaving City.
3. Two lanes on Dock road. I see no advantage in crawling along in the left lane when their is an empty land on the right. How am I helping the traffic backed up all the way behind me by not using the two lanes?

Swiper the fox

Well lads, ye obviously lead very important lives, I'm content in my opinion that most people who would knowingly drive past a queue of over 100 cars and swerve in at the last available opportunity are assholes, I'll stay in the queue. Cheers.

Cookiemunster

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Well lads, ye obviously lead very important lives, I'm content in my opinion that most people who would knowingly drive past a queue of over 100 cars and swerve in at the last available opportunity are assholes, I'll stay in the queue. Cheers.

The wrong queue it is then

Berty

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Well lads, ye obviously lead very important lives, I'm content in my opinion that most people who would knowingly drive past a queue of over 100 cars and swerve in at the last available opportunity are assholes, I'll stay in the queue. Cheers.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The wrong queue it is then

There is no queue, just a long line on non moving traffic. The lane on the right is moving so you don't have to sit there if you don't want to. :D:D:D

Itsdacraic

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Well lads, ye obviously lead very important lives, I'm content in my opinion that most people who would knowingly drive past a queue of over 100 cars and swerve in at the last available opportunity are assholes, I'll stay in the queue. Cheers.

I'll be so far ahead of you, you won't even be able to see my car let alone my asshole :cool:

concussion

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Well lads, ye obviously lead very important lives, I'm content in my opinion that most people who would knowingly drive past a queue of over 100 cars and swerve in at the last available opportunity are assholes, I'll stay in the queue. Cheers.

The outside lane is there to ensure take the traffic load further out from the city and reduce congestion at the Shannon Bridge roundabout and approaches.The extra lane doubles up the vehicles, thus shortening the length of the traffic. If you weren't supposed to use it, it wouldn't be there or it's use would be restricted. The assholes are those people sitting in a queue refusing to allow other traffic to merge.

Swiper the fox

****it, I'm taking a real hammering here!
Crowd on here never struck me as the sort, you just never know.

savagecabbages

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Well lads, ye obviously lead very important lives, I'm content in my opinion that most people who would knowingly drive past a queue of over 100 cars and swerve in at the last available opportunity are assholes, I'll stay in the queue. Cheers.

Who says anything about swerving in at the last opportunity? you make it sound like dangerous driving!!
Once the time comes to merge, I'll do so as I would on any two lane road. Carefully.

Bobo78

Swiper the fox wrote: »

****it, I'm taking a real hammering here!
Crowd on here never struck me as the sort, you just never know.

But You are in the wrong here. :P

Swiper the fox

Bobo78 wrote: »

But You are in the wrong here. :P

:(certainly appears so the way ye are falling over to thank each other.
Once more I will attempt to explain, it is a moral choice for me, everybody is trying to get somewhere, most people are willing to take their turn, traffic is never backed up to the roundabout in my experience, that argument is a useful excuse, do i deserve to skip everyone else and push them all one further back in the queue, i don't think so.

fl4pj4ck

What you are doing is a traffic offence in many countries and you don't seem to understand the fact that it has nothing to do with morality. It's the best way to deal with congestion in some places.

TestTransmission

Swiper the fox wrote: »

:(certainly appears so the way ye are falling over to thank each other.
Once more I will attempt to explain, it is a moral choice for me, everybody is trying to get somewhere, most people are willing to take their turn, traffic is never backed up to the roundabout in my experience, that argument is a useful excuse, do i deserve to skip everyone else and push them all one further back in the queue, i don't think so.

The word is "merge"

Swiper the fox

TestTransmission wrote: »

The word is "merge"

Someone else is weighing in to kick the dog:rolleyes:, charming, I'm sick of explaining myself now, either way your contribution doesn't make any sense to me, have you read the thread properly?

Again to make myself clear, I never suggested anyone was breaking any laws here, except me it seems by refusing to let someone cut in.

Cookiemunster

Swiper the fox wrote: »

:(certainly appears so the way ye are falling over to thank each other.
Once more I will attempt to explain, it is a moral choice for me, everybody is trying to get somewhere, most people are willing to take their turn, traffic is never backed up to the roundabout in my experience, that argument is a useful excuse, do i deserve to skip everyone else and push them all one further back in the queue, i don't think so.

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Someone else is weighing in to kick the dog:rolleyes:, charming, I'm sick of explaining myself now, either way your contribution doesn't make any sense to me, have you read the thread properly?

Again to make myself clear, I never suggested anyone was breaking any laws here, except me it seems by refusing to let someone cut in.

Your taking everyone here the wrong way. Nobody is ganging up on you. We are simply trying to explain that there is nothing morally wrong ( to use your own phrase) or illegal with using the outside empty lane and merging back into traffic when that lane drops. Everyone still gets their turn with the zipper method and traffic moves faster.
Now if someone was undertaking you in an inside lane (or hard shoulder) that would be a different story.

TestTransmission

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Someone else is weighing in to kick the dog:rolleyes:, charming, I'm sick of explaining myself now, either way your contribution doesn't make any sense to me, have you read the thread properly?

Again to make myself clear, I never suggested anyone was breaking any laws here, except me it seems by refusing to let someone cut in.

I have read the thread,I understand it completely like I understand the ROTR.

Both of the lanes are there for a purpose, they're there to be used and for both lanes to merge. No one is "cutting" in.

fl4pj4ck

Late Merge Studies Indicate It Is Faster and Safer
Study shows that merging late speeds traffic

and many, many more...

Swiper the fox

TestTransmission wrote: »

I have read the thread,I understand it completely like I understand the ROTR.

Both of the lanes are there for a purpose, they're there to be used and for both lanes to merge. No one is "cutting" in.

Fair enough, perhaps I'll ask a different question in an attempt to make my point clear, I also understand the rules of the road and never at any point in this thread did I claim that anything illegal is going on.
This is my understanding of the situation as somebody who travels on the road every day, rarely however at what is likely to be rush hour(between 5-630) I'd usually be on it a little earlier in the afternoon.

Why do the vast, vast majority of people wait in the left lane? They've been referred to as mugs and other things already here, I don't think thats the case. In my experience the backlog begins shortly after the smaller topaz garage, there is absolutely no danger of traffic being backed up to the bridge, only one car at a time can pass the second topaz, I really fail to see how people travelling on an empty lane and "merging" at the very end gets anyone except themselves home quicker, the facts as I see it is that they are inconveniencing and delaying every other user on that road, ie every driver that passes me on my right will be out the Dock road before me and I will be later/maybe miss the lights by a split second whatever, I have no doubt that the problem lies with the road layout, there may have been a need for a merge or whatever before the tunnel but now there just isn't the traffic.
Most road users(though I accept I am in a minority on here) are like me and accept the situation, realise only one lane is needed(I can't think of another reason why both lanes aren't used equally) while others are oppurtunists.
I genuinely believe it is a moral choice(a very small one obviously, there are more important things to worry about).
Rather than another smartass reply could someone explain to me how nobody is inconvenienced in the situation I have described.

Swiper the fox

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

Late Merge Studies Indicate It Is Faster and Safer
Study shows that merging late speeds traffic

and many, many more...

:eek:Those links have absolutely no relevance to the Dock Road, that is real traffic, c'mon now you are grasping at straws and going to a lot of trouble in the process :rolleyes:

Cookiemunster

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Why do the vast, vast majority of people wait in the left lane? They've been referred to as mugs and other things already here, I don't think thats the case.

The vast majority of Irish drivers are bad drivers and don't know the rules of the road. Its only in the last few years that people have to actually do a theory test before getting a licence. There are thousands of drivers out there who got free licences in the late 70s without ever passing a test.

Swiper the fox wrote: »

In my experience the backlog begins shortly after the smaller topaz garage, there is absolutely no danger of traffic being backed up to the bridge, only one car at a time can pass the second topaz, I really fail to see how people travelling on an empty lane and "merging" at the very end gets anyone except themselves home quicker

According to google earth it is 500m from the Topaz to the merge and another 500m back to the RAB. Why on earth would you sit in traffic for 500m when there's a free lane that you are allowed to use? Getting home quicker is a perfectly good reason for using the lane.

Swiper the fox wrote: »

the facts as I see it is that they are inconveniencing and delaying every other user on that road, ie every driver that passes me on my right will be out the Dock road before me and I will be later/maybe miss the lights by a split second whatever, I have no doubt that the problem lies with the road layout, there may have been a need for a merge or whatever before the tunnel but now there just isn't the traffic.

This isn't fact, it's your opinion. Your bitter that other drivers are legally using a free lane to get themselves to their destination quicker. If people used the two lanes correctly and used the zipper method of merging then the traffic would move faster. That is a fact even if it is only 500m.

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Most road users(though I accept I am in a minority on here) are like me and accept the situation, realise only one lane is needed(I can't think of another reason why both lanes aren't used equally) while others are oppurtunists.
I genuinely believe it is a moral choice(a very small one obviously, there are more important things to worry about).
Rather than another smartass reply could someone explain to me how nobody is inconvenienced in the situation I have described.

Again I say that most Irish drivers don't know how to use the road correctly. The people on the outside aren't opportunists, they're people who know the rules of the road and don't want to be sitting in traffic.
Also if only one lane was needed then there wouldn't be 2 lanes there.

air

I'm inclined to side with the OP on this in light of the way the road is currently used.
Ideally people would queue fully in both lanes and zipper at the end, for whatever reason people aren't inclined to queue in this manner. Perhaps signage could be added to encourage this?

Notwithstanding the additional buffer space that the two outbound lanes provide, I think that a single outbound lane would actually improve traffic flow vs the current situation.
If the road was changed to have two inbound lanes and one outbound, this would IMO improve inbound traffic hugely due to the fact that the two lanes would have 3 lanes to choose from at the roundabout.
I think that the improvement this would give inbound would outweigh anything that could be done outbound without major work. I think outbound is always going to be a disaster anyway while there are traffic lights along the dock road.

Slightly OT, a lot of additional traffic lights have been installed throughout the city over the past while, for example the replacement of the island road roundabout (near the Absolute Hotel) with a signal controlled interchange.
While I'm sure they may have improved pedestrian safety etc, they have added new tailbacks that didn't exist previously and really slowed traffic flow both at peak and off peak times.

thesimpsons

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Why do the vast, vast majority of people wait in the left lane? .

I really don't know why people wait in the left lane to be honest. I can never understand it. There are 2 lanes, perfectly adequate lanes put there for use, marked correctly, nothing ambigious about them- why would you not use them? If you were in supermarket would you just queue up at the longest checkout even though there is a checkout next to you empty even though at the front door of the shop you might have to merge to get out to the carpark? I don't see anything immoral about using the road correctly and indicating left into the merging traffic when instructed to do so by road signs.

Mc Love

Anyone think they should set up some traffic lights to let the people merge from the right lane to the left lane? Sure it wouldnt hurt to have another set of traffic lights on the dock road?!?

Swiper the fox

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish drivers are bad drivers and don't know the rules of the road. Its only in the last few years that people have to actually do a theory test before getting a licence. There are thousands of drivers out there who got free licences in the late 70s without ever passing a test.



According to google earth it is 500m from the Topaz to the merge and another 500m back to the RAB. Why on earth would you sit in traffic for 500m when there's a free lane that you are allowed to use? Getting home quicker is a perfectly good reason for using the lane.



This isn't fact, it's your opinion. Your bitter that other drivers are legally using a free lane to get themselves to their destination quicker. If people used the two lanes correctly and used the zipper method of merging then the traffic would move faster. That is a fact even if it is only 500m.



Again I say that most Irish drivers don't know how to use the road correctly. The people on the outside aren't opportunists, they're people who know the rules of the road and don't want to be sitting in traffic.
Also if only one lane was needed then there wouldn't be 2 lanes there.

I was going to leave it off but I can't leave that go unanswered, internet forums are very frustrating, it seems like nobody has read what I have been saying or else they see what they want to see, then ye all high 5 each other at ye're witticisms which do not deal with or provide an answer to the issue at hand.
This talk of the zipper method seems to suggest that the Dock road is like an L.A freeway, it is not, there are not two equally busy lanes merging into one, anyone with eyes can see that, again, there is no need for two lanes, if you feel the need to talk of merging and zipping again please bear this in mind, the Dock road is not what this method was designed for and it is a very bad example, completely inappropriate. Same for wiki links dealing with late merge/early merge whatever, give google a break and deal with the issue.
To say Irish people are bad drivers and in the next paragraph accuse me of not dealing with facts, give me a break, are you suggesting that they are a load of gormless idiots sitting in the left lane day after day oblivious of whats happening alongside them? If you got a licence in the late 70s chances are you are in your mid to late 50s, I find this generation to be some of the best drivers, statistics may or may not agree but that is my experience.

It is the third point where you say it is my opinion that I can't understand how any of ye cannot get it. It may not be a fact in the strictest sense of the word but please explain to me how it makes the traffic move quicker when it merges, one car still goes through at a time, if there was a single line of traffic then one car would go through at a time also, the line of traffic would extend back another few yards but nowhere near the bridge where it might cause an inconvenience.
You accuse me of being bitter as if I couldn't do the same thing myself, I have said from the start that I know the law isn't being broken, I could steer my car into the right lane no problem, don't worry about that, I choose not to out of respect for other road users in that situation, perhaps because I am so familiar with it, clearly I am considered an idiot for doing so, hopefully this is my final input on the matter.

Mc Love

Had to thank your post as its a right hoot!! You think internet forums are the only thing that is frustrating???

Swiper the fox wrote: »

I was going to leave it off but I can't leave that go unanswered, internet forums are very frustrating, it seems like nobody has read what I have been saying or else they see what they want to see, then ye all high 5 each other at ye're witticisms which do not deal with or provide an answer to the issue at hand.

Everyone has read your OP - and its quite clear you think people that use the RHL are more important than you and that you feel that you would rather be nice and patiently sit in the LHL while blocking people from merging which is illegal.

Swiper the fox wrote: »

This talk of the zipper method seems to suggest that the Dock road is like an L.A freeway, it is not, there are not two equally busy lanes merging into one, anyone with eyes can see that, again, there is no need for two lanes, if you feel the need to talk of merging and zipping again please bear this in mind, the Dock road is not what this method was designed for and it is a very bad example, completely inappropriate. Same for wiki links dealing with late merge/early merge whatever, give google a break and deal with the issue.

The road design on the dock road as previous posters have said is exactly what is designed for; freeing up traffic from the shannon bridge roundabout and surrounding streets, creating a smoother traffic flow.

Swiper the fox wrote: »

To say Irish people are bad drivers and in the next paragraph accuse me of not dealing with facts, give me a break, are you suggesting that they are a load of gormless idiots sitting in the left lane day after day oblivious of whats happening alongside them? If you got a licence in the late 70s chances are you are in your mid to late 50s, I find this generation to be some of the best drivers, statistics may or may not agree but that is my experience.[\quote]

Some of these drivers are the worst on the roads and only hold a provisional licence!!

Swiper the fox

Mc Love wrote: »

Had to thank your post as its a right hoot!! You think internet forums are the only thing that is frustrating???



Your first line sums up my point about forums, is that how you would carry on in real life, clearly playing to the gallery there, fair play to you tough guy:rolleyes:

Cookiemunster

Swiper the fox wrote: »

To say Irish people are bad drivers and in the next paragraph accuse me of not dealing with facts, give me a break, are you suggesting that they are a load of gormless idiots sitting in the left lane day after day oblivious of whats happening alongside them?

Yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Irish drivers are some of the worst drivers in western Europe. And I'm not claiming to be perfect myself as I'm also a product of a substandard driver training/test regime.

Swiper the fox wrote: »

It is the third point where you say it is my opinion that I can't understand how any of ye cannot get it. It may not be a fact in the strictest sense of the word but please explain to me how it makes the traffic move quicker when it merges, one car still goes through at a time, if there was a single line of traffic then one car would go through at a time also, the line of traffic would extend back another few yards but nowhere near the bridge where it might cause an inconvenience.
You accuse me of being bitter as if I couldn't do the same thing myself, I have said from the start that I know the law isn't being broken, I could steer my car into the right lane no problem, don't worry about that, I choose not to out of respect for other road users in that situation, perhaps because I am so familiar with it, clearly I am considered an idiot for doing so, hopefully this is my final input on the matter.

I give up. Your refusing to listen to anything that anyone on the thread is saying to you because you see yourself as right and everyone else as wrong just because you feel that you are being slowed down by a few seconds :rolleyes: Well I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a brick wall any further.

Swiper the fox

You are probably right. I'm like a dog with a bone. I'll have to leave it go.

Insect Overlord

Swiper the fox wrote: »

You are probably right. I'm like a dog with a bone. I'll have to leave it go.

Excellent. I'll close this now then.