Private or school plane over Meath

Noel Kinsella

Hi I am new around here and am looking for some advise please. My father is a pensioner and lives on the outskirts of summerhill in meath. I understand that there are two flying schools not too far Athboy and Trim ? The problem is that a small white plane is flying over his house 15 / 20 times a day he will get the number to make sure it is the same plane but the pilot flies very very low just clearing the surrounding trees he/she also goes to quite a height and cuts the engine and free falls only to start the engine at what "seems" like the last second. My father is getting nervous and does not like these antics especially the very low flying just over the house.
I have 3 questions.
1) Is there an accepted or legal height to fly over peoples houses ?
2) Is there any restrictions or rules on cutting the engine ?
3) After we get the number off the plane where should he contact and what information should be collected to identify the plane ?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Noel

mayotom

Yes there are height restrictions, however if they are in the climb path from the airfield then they have to start somewhere, Please post the map location so that contributors reference to what airfield is involved. On the underside of the wing the registration is clearly marked, if it is flying so low you will not have a problem reading the registration. If it is an Irish airplane for example it will be EI-*** or British G-**** etc
What you hear as cutting the engine is a normal part of Pilot training, Stall's, Spin's etc are a nesessary part of Pilot training..

JJLongford

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

Hi I am new around here and am looking for some advise please. My father is a pensioner and lives on the outskirts of summerhill in meath. I understand that there are two flying schools not too far Athboy and Trim ? The problem is that a small white plane is flying over his house 15 / 20 times a day he will get the number to make sure it is the same plane but the pilot flies very very low just clearing the surrounding trees he/she also goes to quite a height and cuts the engine and free falls only to start the engine at what "seems" like the last second. My father is getting nervous and does not like these antics especially the very low flying just over the house.
I have 3 questions.
1) Is there an accepted or legal height to fly over peoples houses ?
2) Is there any restrictions or rules on cutting the engine ?
3) After we get the number off the plane where should he contact and what information should be collected to identify the plane ?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Noel

1. He should be no lower than 500ft over any people/structures or a height that will allow him to glide to a safe landing spot. If you're in the arse of Meath that's likely to be 500ft.
2. No rules as such. As a licensed pilot he should operate the aircraft in a safe manner as instructed in the Pilot Operating Manual.
3. I suggest you get the registration on the side of the plane. It's probably EI-***. Google it and you should find who it belongs to easy enough. Contact them, tell them where you are and that you feel uneasy with them flying above you. They may explain things and make you feel better about it. They may agree not to fly above you. If all else fails contact the I.A.A. about it. I'm sure it won't come to that though.

Hope this helps.

A likely reason for cutting the engine and starting it up again is that during training you have to do Practice Forced Landings. In other words, your engine has failed, now get down safely. It's perfectly normal and the usual end to the procedure is where you would be coming in at a field and at 500ft you would move the throttle fully forward and climb away.

Even if something were to happen rest assured that it's in the pilot's interest to stay away from your father's house.

bluecode

Several things; you have to define 'very low'. The legal limit in Ireland is not below 500 feet. That may in fact seem quite low to the unitiated but it's quite legal. Clearly it's been practising forced landings. The engine is not 'cut' and restarted, in fact it's simply throttled back to idle and continues to run. You say it's just clearing the trees, that could be true but would be an extremely dangerous practice to the crew if true. However it is a question of perception. It may not even be that close to the trees. It could be the angle you are viewing it.

Clearly it's a training aircraft most likely out of Weston if you say it's there 15/20 times a day. In all likelyhood it's not the same aircraft either. Although it seems odd that any Instructor or pilot would return repeatedly to the same spot unless there is in fact an airstrip nearby. This could in fact be the case. There are a few private strips out there that are generally unpublicised. I know for a fact there are at least two in the general vicinity. Now if the aircraft is actually making approaches to an actual airstrip the 500' rule may not apply.

Essentially the pilot or pilots may in fact be doing nothing illegal or dangerous. People on the ground who are unaware of the technicalities often make assumptions that it's some kind of reckless behaviour. It usually isn't. It's simply training.

However it is clearly disturbing to your Father. That is sufficient in of itself for you have a chat with the operator. Don't go to the IAA or the authorities just yet. Usually the pilot or operator are quite amenable to any reasonable complaints and simply adjust their flightpaths once they know they're causing a disturbance. I've known people who've made an official complaint to IAA first and foremost when a simple phone call to the operator would have done the trick. There is no point in escalating the thing out or all proportion. I have personal experience of this. There is no need for it.

So get the registration and look it up or post it here and we'll tell you who owns it.

LeftBase

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

Hi I am new around here and am looking for some advise please. My father is a pensioner and lives on the outskirts of summerhill in meath. I understand that there are two flying schools not too far Athboy and Trim ? The problem is that a small white plane is flying over his house 15 / 20 times a day he will get the number to make sure it is the same plane but the pilot flies very very low just clearing the surrounding trees he/she also goes to quite a height and cuts the engine and free falls only to start the engine at what "seems" like the last second. My father is getting nervous and does not like these antics especially the very low flying just over the house.
I have 3 questions.
1) Is there an accepted or legal height to fly over peoples houses ?
2) Is there any restrictions or rules on cutting the engine ?
3) After we get the number off the plane where should he contact and what information should be collected to identify the plane ?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Noel

I would imagine at a guess that your father lives close to a large field and that this field may be a favorite for instructors to practice forced landings with their students. The exercise simulates and engine failure in flight and having to glide into a field. The aircraft should not be below 500ft agl(above ground level)...however it is usually done down to 500ft above sea level as that is what the altimeter reads.

They may also be doing spin/stall training.

If you get the registration give it to the IAA and express concerns. They will have a word with the owner/operator.

phonypony

LeftBase wrote: »

however it is usually done down to 500ft above sea level as that is what the altimeter reads.
.

Have to disagree with that, I don't know anyone who does it (not saying no-one does, but it's certainly not the norm). In many parts of the country that would leave an aircraft-shaped hole in the ground. Any pilot not adding the height of the ground to his altimeter reading and factoring in error is lazy and dangerous, if instructors are doing it with their students it's just irresponsible.

LeftBase

phonypony wrote: »

Have to disagree with that, I don't know anyone who does it (not saying no-one does, but it's certainly not the norm). In many parts of the country that would leave an aircraft-shaped hole in the ground. Any pilot not adding the height of the ground to his altimeter reading and factoring in error is lazy and dangerous, if instructors are doing it with their students it's just irresponsible.

What you may term the "Eastern Coast" training area has an average elevation of 200ft meaning that aircraft descend to 300ft agl. I asked once about this when I was at PPL level and was told that it was a little bit of a "cheeky sin" schools pull off when doing PFLs.

phonypony

LeftBase wrote: »

What you may term the "Eastern Coast" training area has an average elevation of 200ft meaning that aircraft descend to 300ft agl. I asked once about this when I was at PPL level and was told that it was a little bit of a "cheeky sin" schools pull off when doing PFLs.

It's a shame we don't share the same 500ft rule our neighbours had. Having flown elsewhere and had that freedom it can be tempting to dip below it here. A local variation in QNH and a small altimeter error can easily erode that 300ft to 200ft. No question absolutely safe out in the stix. Fun too. The problems arise where someone does make a complaint to the IAA. The radar traces never lie...

Su Campu

Lads, 300, 200 ft....it doesn't matter because it's a visual maneuver, so there's no danger of cfit due to the pilot focusing the altimeter!

phonypony

Su Campu wrote: »

Lads, 300, 200 ft....it doesn't matter because it's a visual maneuver, so there's no danger of cfit due to the pilot focusing the altimeter!

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, my 'In many parts of the country that would leave an aircraft-shaped hole in the ground' was more tongue in cheek rather than a reference to CFIT. My reference to altimeters is only due to that instrument being the only way to ensure you don't break the low flying rules. Having said that, I know a few pilots who bury their heads in the panel while VFR, but that's another issue...

Tenger

Back on topic......

next time look for the registration of the aircraft....it will be visible under 1 of the wings. (If you cannot read the reg the aircraft is most probably above 500ft)
Some knowledgeable posters here will be able to direct towards contacting the operator to discuss the issue.

Xpro

When you say Summerhill where exactly is this happening?

That area generaly would be used for training flights, but not in suburb areas of Summerhill.
Most practising is done west of summerhill around Fox Hill and around the quarry which is nearby, and there is only a few houses in the vicinity.
There`s also a mast in summerhill 1100ft amsl and pilots generally avoid this.

Also as mentioned above there is a few private strips located in the near vicinity and aeroplanes could be coming from all directions.
( Moyglare,Athboy, Dollys Grove)

If you can next time, get a reg and your best bet would be to contact the operator as said above, as im sure if this issue is causing disturbance for your father, they will do something to resolve this.

cheers

Su Campu

Here's the latest Irish (EI-) aircraft register

http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?a=443&n=444&p=443

Noel Kinsella

Thank you all for the info it puts things in perspective but I have to say I think the plane is well below 500ft but we will see. I will tell my father not to contact anybody till he at least speaks to the pilots or I will speak to them for him. And yes the house is in the sticks about 1 mile away from Rathmolyon just green fields around.
Thank you guys.