Michael Schumacher has retired...AGAIN

paddy147

Thank fcuk hes gone,at the end of this season.:D
He shouldnt have come back,as he is useless...too many crashes caused by himself,dangerous driving/racing,and inability to say sorry for his fcuk ups.

http://espn.go.com/racing/f1/story/_/id/8460217/michael-schumacher-confirms-f1-retirement



Lewis Hamilton is in to take his seat in 2013.

I hope that Mercedes can give Hamilton the car he wants/needs to win in.:)

Mycroft H

Sorry to see him go, always liked him. He was plagued with mechanical problems this season and really didn't get a chance to drive his best

paddy147

BX 19 wrote: »

Sorry to see him go, always liked him. He was plagued with mechanical problems this season and really didn't get a chance to drive his best

Forget to use his brakes,yep thats a mechanical problem allright.:pac::pac::D

Yakuza

The second phase of his career certainly hasn't been a patch on the first (7 championships and 90-something wins) -but he's hardly "useless"

Max Power1

Arguably the best driver the sport has ever seen. 7 world titles (including 4 in a row) and 93 wins.
They say theres only one every generation, well recently we have had Senna, Schumacher and maybe Alonso.

paddy147

Yakuza wrote: »

The second phase of his career certainly hasn't been a patch on the first (7 championships and 90-something wins) -but he's hardly "useless"

The past is just that...but present day he is useless.He cant drive the modern car,and hes a dirty driver,still to this day.

He caused a fair few crashes last year and this year allready,and still blames the car.

Typical of him to be devoid of saying "my fault,sorry".:rolleyes:

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Typical of him to be devoid of saying "my fault,sorry".:rolleyes:

A you shouldnt admit blame in a crash now paddy.

Max Power1

paddy147 wrote: »

The past is just that...but present day he is useless.He cant drive the modern car,and hes a dirty driver,still to this day.

He caused a fair few crashes last year and this year allready,and still blames the car.

Typical of him to be devoid of saying "my fault,sorry".:rolleyes:

If that were true, surely he would be last every race?

RobAMerc

Max Power1 wrote: »

Arguably the best driver the sport has ever seen. 7 world titles (including 4 in a row) and 93 wins.
They say theres only one every generation, well recently we have had Senna, Schumacher and maybe Alonso.

I will allow Schumacher, but Alonso in the same breath as Senna ?

I think in hindsight his return may have been a mistake. I think he truly believed he could single-handedly ( with Ross Braun ) drag the team to success.

big character though - something F1 sorely needs.

Max Power1

RobAMerc wrote: »

I will allow Schumacher, but Alonso in the same breath as Senna ?

I think in hindsight his return may have been a mistake. I think he truly believed he could single-handedly ( with Ross Braun ) drag the team to success.

big character though - something F1 sorely needs.

I said *maybe* Alonso, for that reason. Imo he is the best driver in the generation with Schumacher excepted. What was a mistake was not the comeback but the first retirement

But lads if Senna kept racing till 40+ , he would be subjected to the same "past it" remarks that schumacher is now getting.

mattser

paddy147 wrote: »

Thank fcuk hes gone,at the end of this season.:D
He shouldnt have come back,as he is useless...too many crashes caused by himself,dangerous driving/racing,and inability to say sorry for his fcuk ups.

http://espn.go.com/racing/f1/story/_/id/8460217/michael-schumacher-confirms-f1-retirement



Lewis Hamilton is in to take his seat in 2013.

I hope that Mercedes can give Hamilton the car he wants/needs to win in.:)

Viewer numbers through the roof every time he was on the grid. Big drop in numbers without him.
Sorry for your trouble, bit I don't think you've seen the last of him. As a driver yes, but greatest ever driver could still play a big part in F1.

RobAMerc

mattser wrote: »

but greatest ever driver

Easy up there lad - lets not gush. Most successful driver ever certainly but greatest.......?

Max Power1

RobAMerc wrote: »

Easy up there lad - lets not gush. Most successful driver ever certainly but greatest.......?

Hmm
So define greatness, if its not consecutive world titles and generally being acknowledged by almost all that he is the best at what he does

paddy147

Eh lads,the past is the past.I dont care if he won 10 world titles in the past.

This is 2012,so lets judge him on his PRESENT FORM AND ABILITY.

Hes crap and hes still a dirty racer who causes crashes and keeps on blaming the car instead.

Inbox

Max Power1 wrote: »

Arguably the best driver the sport has ever seen. 7 world titles (including 4 in a row) and 93 wins.
They say theres only one every generation, well recently we have had Senna, Schumacher and maybe Alonso.

5 in a row buddy

Tea 1000

paddy147 wrote: »

Thank fcuk hes gone,at the end of this season.:D
He shouldnt have come back,as he is useless...too many crashes caused by himself,dangerous driving/racing,and inability to say sorry for his fcuk ups.

http://espn.go.com/racing/f1/story/_/id/8460217/michael-schumacher-confirms-f1-retirement



Lewis Hamilton is in to take his seat in 2013.

I hope that Mercedes can give Hamilton the car he wants/needs to fit his ego into win in.:)

Fixed!!

paddy147 wrote: »

Eh lads,the past is the past.I dont care if he won 10 world titles in the past.

This is 2012,so lets judge him on his PRESENT FORM AND ABILITY.

Hes crap and hes still a dirty racer who causes crashes and keeps on blaming the car instead.

Crap drivers don't put average cars on pole in Monaco and out race relatively frequently this year a decent driver called Rosberg...
The car has not been good enough, and he is old for an F1 driver, and he raced in the era of lots of testing, and came back as quite an old guy to an era where that is no more, so hard to get someone who has done it one way for so many years to suddenly change and perform at the top of their game.
Simple fact is that you're not as adaptable when you're older. Still, he brought Ferrari from a crap team to an unbeatable one, with Brawn's help.

paddy147

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I think you should stop now, your embarrassing yourself.

Ok,so..........

Please feel free to tell me and show me all the opposite though.

Thats hes a great racer,present day,hes not dirty and he hasnnt caused a fair few crashes and then gone on (in post race interview) to blame the car every time.


Micheal..you missed your braking point "YET AGAIN" and rammed yet another car off the track and out of the race.


Its not my fault,Its the cars fault.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

RobAMerc

Max Power1 wrote: »

Hmm
So define greatness, if its not consecutive world titles and generally being acknowledged by almost all that he is the best at what he does

I personally don't think that Scheuy had a really talented rival throughout his entire career. There were some good ones but I don't believe there was the competition of previous generations.

Senna had much more competition and nowadays seems much closer.

in fairness its a mute point as really its a generational thing - Schumacher is the greatest of his generation just as Senna was, Fangio was and Clarke in his time.

There is no one greatest ( except of course Senna ! )

RobAMerc

I whipped up a quick web site to prove my point !


F1's greatest

De Hipster

RobAMerc wrote: »

I will allow Schumacher, but Alonso in the same breath as Senna ?

My sentiments exactly!

As for Schumacher - anyone who considers themselves an F1 / Motorsport fan & does not rate him as either best / second / third best F1 driver of all time - go spectate something you have a better grip of, say lion wrestling.

djimi

De Hipster wrote: »

My sentiments exactly!

As for Schumacher - anyone who considers themselves an F1 / Motorsport fan & does not rate him as either best / second / third best F1 driver of all time - go spectate something you have a better grip of, say lion wrestling.

Best in what way though? How do you compare him to drivers that he has never raced against? If he had been around in the 80s and raced against Senna and Prost in their pomp would he have done anywhere near as well? Or had he had Vettle in the form he was in for the past few seasons racing against him?

For what its worth I dont disagree with you; in my mind he is certainly one of the top 5 and probably top 3 of all time, but its a subjective opinion based on comparing drivers that we have not seen race against each other, from different eras, in different cars, different technologies and different level of opposition.

djimi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

He is statistically the best ever F1 driver that's something that cannot be argued with. As for the best of all time, you have to remember that Senna died in his prime. When that happens you become a legend/myth in your own field.

I wouldn't be Senna`s biggest fan, Schumacher gets grilled over some dirty driving but Senna was just as dirty and he practically gave rise to the culture of punting people off if it meant winning! This continues today when I see young kids karting and they think its OK to do it as Senna used to!

Statistics dont tell the whole story though. I mentioned Vettel because I dont believe that Schumacher ever had competition of that level throughout his career, certainly not for any sustained period of time. I know a lot of that was down to him being the standout driver of his generation, which is why the stats look so good for him, and honestly I am not disputing that he is one of the very best and will always be mentioned as one of the top 3 of all time.

Personally I dont actually care about his driving style. He was dirty and when he crossed a line he got punished, but it was that edge that made him a winner. Very few drivers (or indeed competitors in any sport) get to the very top by being Mr Nice Guy. Maybe as a NASCAR fan Im just more used to the dirty stuff being accepted; it wouldnt cost those guys a second though to bump you and risk a wreck if it meant going for the win!

hawkwind23

sorry to see him go , was hoping he would get asked to talk to ferarri or more realistically be offered a year at sauber.
no doubting his talent and such a shame he didnt have a car for his return.
i always said schumi could get 3/10'ths out of any car but that just didnt seem to be the case in the merc, he may of beaten rosberg so far this year but that advantage just wasnt there.
so we will never know that if in a consistent and performing car , if he could get that extra couple of tenths that made him multiple world champion for different constructors.

as an aside his pole at monaco would of been a fitting end had he been able to race without penalty and win.

i wasnt a fan when he was at ferrari , i liked montoya.
but no doubting his talent , used to love the hakkinin battles!
two of the finest artisans of left foot braking in F1, one race they tailed each other and were putting the cars into position coming into each corner with delicate use of the brakes.
you just dont get that talent anymore

heres micheal using the rules to exactness as usual , one car length

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eE3gCy5zvM&feature=related

he was always debateable for his race tactics

also loved the montoya schumacher tussles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPxwkKRn78

my heart still breaks when i see that idiot verstappen drive into the back of montoya , i had £20 on at 100/1 and after rewatching that im still not over it!!


dont like to see such childish comments about scumacher , he will remain in history as one of the greats and his retirement will be a loss to the changing spectacle of F1

djimi

As for his retirement Im not really sorry to see him go if Im honest. He is at that point in his life where he has everything to lose and pretty much nothing to gain from carrying on. Its almost sad to watch him these days as a shadow of this former self (and I say that as someone who had no love for Michael Schumacher the first time around).

De Hipster

djimi wrote: »

Best in what way though? How do you compare him to drivers that he has never raced against? If he had been around in the 80s and raced against Senna and Prost in their pomp would he have done anywhere near as well? Or had he had Vettle in the form he was in for the past few seasons racing against him?

For what its worth I dont disagree with you; in my mind he is certainly one of the top 5 and probably top 3 of all time, but its a subjective opinion based on comparing drivers that we have not seen race against each other, from different eras, in different cars, different technologies and different level of opposition.

The statistics speak for themselves - sure it's difficult to compare across different eras but certainly for his time, levels of drives, wins, qualification grid spots, podiums, laps, miles... and of course 'of all time' means exactly that.

I would've given my eyeballs themselves (the irony is not lost...) to see Schumi & Senna wheel to wheel for a few seasons.

paddy147

Vettel is a bit of a comedian aswell.

"As a German,I have to make a complaint,otherwize I wouldnt be a propper German"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGItMTxvbpc&feature=related

dahamsta

Delighted to see him go. His skills are undeniable and he's incredibly brave in the driver's seat, but he put other people's lives at risk many times -- because if he can't have the ball, no-one else should either. F1 will be safer without him, and now he's past his prime, he'll be no loss in any other way.

The question now is what what Hamilton will bitch and whine about if he gets a good [crew], the weaselly little tit.

djimi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

You gotta be joking? Lets just take a few picks of the people he has raced against in his long Career

That`s just off the top of my head that includes many WC winning drivers and some that went on to win other top level motorsport championships!

In fairness if you are talking about in his prime then the only drivers on that list that he raced against properly and who really were in a position to challenge him were Hill, Alonso, Kimi, Hakkinen. Ill admit that Im being unfair to those drivers; perhaps his ability is clouding just how good they were (which Im not really disputing).

Myrddin

paddy147 wrote: »

The past is just that...but present day he is useless.He cant drive the modern car

Hardly a ringing endorsement for the other 23 drivers in F1 is it, especially considering he stuck an F1 car around the Monaco circuit quicker than any of the rest of them...this year.

ando

Nomatter what people say, I've been watching him since 96/97 and to me he is the best I've ever seen in a F1 car. Sure last 3 years haven’t been great at all, but that doesn’t impact what I think of him as a driver. I've seen him take such lumps of crap around a circuit far faster than anyone else (hungry 98 springs to mind, spa 97 etc) in an awesome show of his abilities, always destroying his immediate teammate. I was excited to see him back in F1 as it injected a bit of spur for F1 for me, I found myself shouting at the screen whereas I never did since he left in 2006. Sure F1 is closer then ever before nowadays, but it just lacks something without a big personality like Schumacher. I'll be sad to see him go as there isnt any single person that comes to mind with such a direct impact on F1. The closest in passion for driving out of the current bunch would be I would say Hamilton, who sometimes you can see is a real racer who puts everything on the line (ie exciting) Alonso too but in a slightly different way. I know Schumacher has certainly roiled up some people in the past yadda yadda yadda but when it comes down to it, who do you remember, Hill.. Villeneuve.. Hakkinen.. Coulthard? They all competed at the same level as Schumacher in the late 90's and early 2000's but its Schumacher that came out on top and is the one that will be remembered in 10 or 20 years time

ando

dahamsta wrote: »

Delighted to see him go. His skills are undeniable and he's incredibly brave in the driver's seat, but he put other people's lives at risk many times because if he can't have the ball, no-one else should either. F1 will be safer without him, and now he's past his prime, he'll be no loss in any other way

Ah common its motor racing, not pass the ball... Its all about wining and staying in front. I admire Schumacher's risk taking and extreme measures to stay in front. F1 is getting far too soft these days, the drivers arent there to make friends

Tea 1000

LIGHTNING wrote: »

He is statistically the best ever F1 driver that's something that cannot be argued with. As for the best of all time, you have to remember that Senna died in his prime. When that happens you become a legend/myth in your own field.

I wouldn't be Senna`s biggest fan, Schumacher gets grilled over some dirty driving but Senna was just as dirty and he practically gave rise to the culture of punting people off if it meant winning! This continues today when I see young kids karting and they think its OK to do it as Senna used to!

In fairness, Prost started it! He only did it once though...

paddy147

EnterNow wrote: »

Hardly a ringing endorsement for the other 23 drivers in F1 is it, especially considering he stuck an F1 car around the Monaco circuit quicker than any of the rest of them...this year.

One race out of the entire season so far,wow .

And where did he finish again??

A DNF

Nice to see that someone took Schuy out of a race for a change.:D

mattser

paddy147 wrote: »

One race out of the entire season so far,,wow .

And where did he finish again??

DNF

Nice to see that someone took Schuy out of a race for a change.:D

Just out of interest...who is your favourite driver at the moment ?

paddy147

mattser wrote: »

Just out of interest...who is your favourite driver at the moment ?

Paul DiResta and also Sergio Perez,both upcomming talented drivers that are doing very well with the machinery they have.

I think that either 1 of them could do very well at McLaren,if they are offered a seat for next year.

madma

i dedicate this to the legend......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMzjPFGlOco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

mattser

paddy147 wrote: »

Paul DiResta and also Sergio Perez,both upcomming talented drivers that are doing very well with the machinery they have.

I like Di Resta a lot.

parttime

RobAMerc wrote: »

Max Power1 wrote: »

Hmm
So define greatness, if its not consecutive world titles and generally being acknowledged by almost all that he is the best at what he does

I personally don't think that Scheuy had a really talented rival throughout his entire career. There were some good ones but I don't believe there was the competition of previous generations.

Senna had much more competition and nowadays seems much closer.

in fairness its a mute point as really its a generational thing - Schumacher is the greatest of his generation just as Senna was, Fangio was and Clarke in his time.

There is no one greatest ( except of course Senna ! )

Mika Hakkinen!

galwaytt

dahamsta wrote: »

...F1 will be safer without him

Once we've had the first crash of the new season, you're theory is moot.

Who'll you blame then ?

paddy147

galwaytt wrote: »

Once we've had the first crash of the new season, you're theory is moot.

Who'll you blame then ?

The brakes??;):D

dahamsta

galwaytt wrote: »

Once we've had the first crash of the new season, you're theory is moot.

Who'll you blame then ?

The bullock was definitely twice, on an orange Tuesday.

(I'm responding with the same level of logic.)

paddy147

Whats the bets that Mercedes told Schumy weeks ago that they actually didnt want him anymore?

And thats why Schumy has said hes "retiring",to try and save face.

De Hipster

paddy147 wrote: »

Whats the bets that Mercedes told Schumy weeks ago that they actually didnt want him anymore?

And thats why Schumy has said hes "retiring",to try and save face.

Jeez...

Let it go...dislike him irrationally if you must but disregarding a mammoth, lengthy and multiple record-breaking career of that magnitude is just bitter man!

hawkwind23

you have to marvel at the insinuation that legends are kept in the dark within these dealings.
schumacher had a defined role within mercedes and although the development wasnt as rapid as expected he was the main man , the headliner.
im very sure he was kept abreast of developments from brawn.
id of liked to see him stay on with sauber but i understand he cant do that.
i had dreamed a returned to Ferrari , him and alonso would of been some team!
i put alonso in that bracket who wring those few tenths a lap , who nurture the car to podiums.
a worthy champion
a dream to see the time difference in lap times between those two

djimi

hawkwind23 wrote: »

id of liked to see him stay on with sauber but i understand he cant do that.
i had dreamed a returned to Ferrari , him and alonso would of been some team!

The guy is 43 years of age and will be 44 by the time next seasons starts. Hes right to get out now (should never have come back really); there would be no sense in him joining Sauber and absolutely no sense in Ferrari taking him back. At this stage he has nothing to offer a team that he couldnt offer them from a technical advisor role (or something to that effect) and from his own point of view he really is just in an all to lose situation; he is not going to win anything (especially not if he drops to a level below Mercedes) and Im a firm believer that the longer you go on past your prime the more you tempt fate.

If he wants to continue racing then he should take up sports cars or something. His days in F1 are over and realistically were when he retired the first time.

paddy147

djimi wrote: »

The guy is 43 years of age and will be 44 by the time next seasons starts. Hes right to get out now (should never have come back really); there would be no sense in him joining Sauber and absolutely no sense in Ferrari taking him back. At this stage he has nothing to offer a team that he couldnt offer them from a technical advisor role (or something to that effect) and from his own point of view he really is just in an all to lose situation; he is not going to win anything (especially not if he drops to a level below Mercedes) and Im a firm believer that the longer you go on past your prime the more you tempt fate.

If he wants to continue racing then he should take up sports cars or something. His days in F1 are over and realistically were when he retired the first time.

He could allways go and do DTM with his brother Ralf.

mattser

djimi wrote: »

The guy is 43 years of age and will be 44 by the time next seasons starts. Hes right to get out now (should never have come back really); there would be no sense in him joining Sauber and absolutely no sense in Ferrari taking him back. At this stage he has nothing to offer a team that he couldnt offer them from a technical advisor role (or something to that effect) and from his own point of view he really is just in an all to lose situation; he is not going to win anything (especially not if he drops to a level below Mercedes) and Im a firm believer that the longer you go on past your prime the more you tempt fate.

If he wants to continue racing then he should take up sports cars or something. His days in F1 are over and realistically were when he retired the first time.

I think that sums it up, Djimi. He's not finished yet, of course, with a few races to go. Just hope he doesn't get hurt, or hurt others.

Just read a quote from Ross Brawn in tonights Herald. " He's the greatest driver this CENTURY ". WTF.

He wasn't too bad in the last decade of the last CENTURY either, Ross, if you remember.

errlloyd

**** the haters, Schumi retired because he was burned out, he came back for three years and seemed to enjoy the racing more than he did when he was winning.

He's been quite unlucky since he came back, I think he's been penalised for two crashes, when it took the stewards several to get on Mal and Gro's cases, those two have been playing bumper cars since they arrived from GP2.

People think Ferrari made Schumacher, but Schumacher made Ferrari, he built a dominant team, then he dominated with it.

Fairwell Michael, and thank you.

De Hipster

paddy147 wrote: »

He could allways go and do DTM with his brother Ralf.

...and whip the Coultard's ass regularly! Revenge for the boot-ins over the last few years.

Jimoslimos

Max Power1 wrote: »

I said *maybe* Alonso, for that reason. Imo he is the best driver in the generation with Schumacher excepted. What was a mistake was not the comeback but the first retirement

Definitely, with the rule changes F1 massively altered in the period he was out. The learning curve when he returned was just too steep.