Solid Flywheel conversion

van_beano

Hi all,

Just a quick query and wondering what you all think....

The Dual Mass Flywheel in my 2008 SEAT Altea is on its last legs at 126k km, I'm getting it repaired at a SEAT Main dealer and have decided to go with a Solid Flywheel hence the conversion kit, I've done the research on DMF vs SMF, pros and cons etc

I've been quoted €800 for the job, €490 for conversion kit and the rest on labour. The DMF replacement would have been about €998.

My question is: is €800 a reasonable price to be charged for the job? I know nothing about mechanics etc hence why I'm asking!

Thanks for any advice you may give!

Esel

Get prices from a few good independent mechanics, or even clutch places. €800 sounds a bit dear to me?

If you're near the border, check prices in the north - including main dealers.

ljpg

main dealers will always be more expensive than an independant garage so that does'nt sound too bad to me,if it was me i'd be pricing around a few different places first before i'd commit.

van_beano

Thanks for the quick reply, I was trying to get an independent but didn't get very far, I know there's a place in Belfast that does it for about £500, can't think of the name of the place now, between exchange rate, day off work and fuel costs it'd probably be close to €800 anyways.

Whichever way you look at it it's €800 I don't really want to spend but if it DMF goes altogether it could be another €2k for a gearbox, allegedly.

I'm just making sure I'm not been ripped off I suppose.

Chuck_Norris

That sounds quite a bit on the high side to be honest. There's a very, very good Indie on here who knows VAG Group cars inside and out who will do a DMF kit using OEM parts for around €700. Can't remember how much he said he would do a solid flywheel conversion for, but I do know it was a lot less than €800.

Having said all that, he doesn't recommend doing the conversion.

ljpg

van_beano wrote: »

Thanks for the quick reply, I was trying to get an independent but didn't get very far, I know there's a place in Belfast that does it for about £500, can't think of the name of the place now, between exchange rate, day off work and fuel costs it'd probably be close to €800 anyways.

Whichever way you look at it it's €800 I don't really want to spend but if it DMF goes altogether it could be another €2k for a gearbox, allegedly.

I'm just making sure I'm not been ripped off I suppose.

ye it can happen alright,when the dmf gets bad enough it can start to wear the inside of the bell housing of the gearbox until it weakens and cracks open,then your in big trouble!!!

George Dalton

Solid conversion can be done for €650 in an indy garage, having said that €800 is not a bad price at all for a main dealer. I wouldn't recommend the solid conversion personally. It makes the gearbox very noisy in them IMO although lots of people have them fitted and don't seem to notice anything untoward....

van_beano

George Dalton wrote: »

Solid conversion can be done for €650 in an indy garage, having said that €800 is not a bad price at all for a main dealer. I wouldn't recommend the solid conversion personally. It makes the gearbox very noisy in them IMO although lots of people have them fitted and don't seem to notice anything untoward....

I've heard alright about the noise issue and that it can wear out the clutch a lot quicker because of increased vibration, saying that with a Solid you've only to replace a clutch but with a DMF it's everything. €500 vs €1000.

I'd sooner get rid of the car but unfortunately the old finances dosn't allow it so I've to make do. From researching the net it seems 126k km isn't bad to get out of a DMF, so maybe I'm lucky enough. Got the timing belt changed last week, €331 from the same main dealer. Who said diesels are cheap to run

Bpmull

We have a solid flywheel in our octavia it was converted by previous owner. And doesnt cause any noise problems but some do. There is pros and cons to both clearly although id imagine the solid flywheel is the cheapest road to go down

Bigus

Is it not.ridiculous the way everybody accepts a thousand euro job on all vag products for unavoidable wear and tear ? example in this case at 78000 miles as unacceptable .

Should it not come under not fit for purpose consumer legislation below 100 k miles , ?????L

but then again does one buy a vag car for reliability any more ?

George Dalton

Bigus wrote: »

Is it not.ridiculous the way everybody accepts a thousand euro job on all vag products for unavoidable wear and tear ? example in this case at 78000 miles as unacceptable .

Should it not come under not fit for purpose consumer legislation below 100 k miles , ?????L

but then again does one buy a vag car for reliability any more ?

Maybe you could tell us what modern car does not have a dual mass flywheel?

At least the VAG parts are cheap and the job is relatively quick to do.

Try pricing a DMF for a Toyota or an Opel and you will find that €800 for the whole job on a VW starts to look cheap pretty quickly....

George Dalton

van_beano wrote: »

I've heard alright about the noise issue and that it can wear out the clutch a lot quicker because of increased vibration, saying that with a Solid you've only to replace a clutch but with a DMF it's everything. €500 vs €1000.

I'd sooner get rid of the car but unfortunately the old finances dosn't allow it so I've to make do. From researching the net it seems 126k km isn't bad to get out of a DMF, so maybe I'm lucky enough. Got the timing belt changed last week, €331 from the same main dealer. Who said diesels are cheap to run

The car should be cheap to run for the next 126k now having had the belt and DMF changed.

Also I forgot to mention in my last post that you can get the DMF replaced like for like for €750 in an independent garage.

van_beano

George Dalton wrote: »

Also I forgot to mention in my last post that you can get the DMF replaced like for like for €750 in an independent garage.

Thanks George, I'm actually gone off the idea of DMF's now, extra noise from a SMF won't bother me too much, my main concern was just being ripped off. I think the general feeling here is that €800 from a main dealer is a decent price but an Indy could do it cheaper. I've it booked in with the main dealer for tomorrow, I'll post up here of how the car sounds afterwards, just incase anyone else ever has the same query on a Seat Altea again

ljpg

van_beano wrote: »

Thanks George, I'm actually gone off the idea of DMF's now, extra noise from a SMF won't bother me too much, my main concern was just being ripped off. I think the general feeling here is that €800 from a main dealer is a decent price but an Indy could do it cheaper. I've it booked in with the main dealer for tomorrow, I'll post up here of how the car sounds afterwards, just incase anyone else ever has the same query on a Seat Altea again

the dmf went on my van about a year ago with 90k miles on the clock,i like you was looking at the smf conversion as well as getting my own knackered dmf welded and balanced and after a lot of research i went for a brand new dmf plus clutch kit,(yes it was the most costly option),reasons why :the dmf is fitted for a reason,it absorbs vibration from the engine so removing it puts the vibration back through your engine, i plan to keep my van for the forseable future and i didnt want engine trouble down the line,i at the time heard horror stories about bad vibration from smf and bad drivability so it was a risk i was'nt going to take,you seem to have made up your mind on the matter so best of luck with it!!

HellFireClub

ljpg wrote: »

ye it can happen alright,when the dmf gets bad enough it can start to wear the inside of the bell housing of the gearbox until it weakens and cracks open,then your in big trouble!!!

Rubbish, a worn DMF will never come into contact with gearbox bell housing.

ljpg

HellFireClub wrote: »

Rubbish, a worn DMF will never come into contact with gearbox bell housing.

in extreme cases yes it will my friend!!!!!!!!!!,cant remember if it was a voltswagon passat or golf,it was a voltswagan nevertheless,inside of housing was badly scored,so much so it had to welded before refitting

George Dalton

HellFireClub wrote: »

Rubbish, a worn DMF will never come into contact with gearbox bell housing.

The flywheel itself doesn't come into contact with the bell housing but bits of springs do come out of those VW flywheels when they start to fail and these will often wear a groove into the inside of the bell housing. In extreme cases the gearbox is damaged beyond use.

bimble

van_beano wrote: »

Hi all,

Just a quick query and wondering what you all think....

The Dual Mass Flywheel in my 2008 SEAT Altea is on its last legs at 126k km, I'm getting it repaired at a SEAT Main dealer and have decided to go with a Solid Flywheel hence the conversion kit, I've done the research on DMF vs SMF, pros and cons etc

I've been quoted €800 for the job, €490 for conversion kit and the rest on labour. The DMF replacement would have been about €998.

My question is: is €800 a reasonable price to be charged for the job? I know nothing about mechanics etc hence why I'm asking!

Thanks for any advice you may give!

It dont sound a bad price you could get it down to 600 to 650 if you order the kit yourself if you know the size of clutch and flywheel try Awesome VW in the Uk. I did it with my golf 5 years ago upgraded set up 700 all in fitted and the kit prices have come down now

van_beano

bimble wrote: »

It dont sound a bad price you could get it down to 600 to 650 if you order the kit yourself if you know the size of clutch and flywheel try Awesome VW in the Uk. I did it with my golf 5 years ago upgraded set up 700 all in fitted and the kit prices have come down now

Thanks Bimble,

I was thinking about getting the kit myself but I didn't have a clue what I'd be looking for hence why Ive just gone with the Main Dealer....I'm a Main Dealers dream customer!

Did you go from DMF to SMF? If so how's the car holding up?

van_beano

Just an update for any one interested.....

The SMF conversion in the SEAT Altea XL is great so far, no extra noise or vibration, the drive seems a lot smoother.....fingers crossed it'll remain like that!

Thanks everyone for your help.

bimble

Yeah I went for the SMF with no probs I think its a better job too less to go wrong

HellFireClub

van_beano wrote: »

Just an update for any one interested.....

The SMF conversion in the SEAT Altea XL is great so far, no extra noise or vibration, the drive seems a lot smoother.....fingers crossed it'll remain like that!

Thanks everyone for your help.

Do you know what brand the SMF kit was?

van_beano

HellFireClub wrote: »

van_beano wrote: »

Just an update for any one interested.....

The SMF conversion in the SEAT Altea XL is great so far, no extra noise or vibration, the drive seems a lot smoother.....fingers crossed it'll remain like that!

Thanks everyone for your help.

Do you know what brand the SMF kit was?

I asked the garage man, not the mechanic, when I was paying but he wasn't sure, I wanted to put as much detail up here, sorry!

In my head its either Sachs or Luks, but that could have been the manufacturers of DMF's alternatives!

HellFireClub

van_beano wrote: »

HellFireClub wrote: »

van_beano wrote: »

Just an update for any one interested.....

The SMF conversion in the SEAT Altea XL is great so far, no extra noise or vibration, the drive seems a lot smoother.....fingers crossed it'll remain like that!

Thanks everyone for your help.

Do you know what brand the SMF kit was?

I asked the garage man, not the mechanic, when I was paying but he wasn't sure, I wanted to put as much detail up here, sorry!

In my head its either Sachs or Luks, but that could have been the manufacturers of DMF's alternatives!

Sachs & LuK are OE Manufacturers & neither have ever manufactured a single mass flywheel. Valeo do them, the problem with SMF kits is that there is a lot of reconditioned ****e floating around on the market, also some counterfeit Valeo kits have been found on the Internet, there was an article in one of the trade magazines recently in relation to the most popular Valeo SMF conversion kit, 835035, where cheap counterfeit goods have been turning up in Ireland, sellers are using DoneDeal.ie to pass these goods off as the real deal when they are just cheap ****e that will fall apart...

http://www.autobiz.ie/news/Beware_Of_Fake_Valeo_Clutch_Kits.html

http://www.techtalk.ie/index.php/team-pr-reilly-warns-on-fake-clutch-parts/785

I've recently sold to 2 separate individuals who ended up in trouble after being caught out with these counterfeit products and in both cases, the seller was on DoneDeal.

van_beano

Call me naive but wouldn't it be a big risk for a Main Dealer to put a bogey SMF kit into a car, I'm sure if the kit did go belly up they would be liable....

I'd agree with you if it was me, with very little mechanic knowledge, buying the part on Donedeal and getting an Independent to do it.

The few quid extra spent in the Main Dealer should, I'd imagine, negate the idea of bogeys SMF's.

I may be back in a few months eating humble pie though!

HellFireClub

van_beano wrote: »

Call me naive but wouldn't it be a big risk for a Main Dealer to put a bogey SMF kit into a car, I'm sure if the kit did go belly up they would be liable....

I'd agree with you if it was me, with very little mechanic knowledge, buying the part on Donedeal and getting an Independent to do it.

The few quid extra spent in the Main Dealer should, I'd imagine, negate the idea of bogeys SMF's.

I may be back in a few months eating humble pie though!

Well, if you think about it, main dealers who pride themselves on using "genuine parts only", (and there is really no such thing as a "genuine part really, as car manufacturers don't actually make parts/components but assemble parts/components that were made by other companies, really shouldn't be fitting SMF's at all.

I've some main dealer clients who only a few years ago would have laughed you out the door if you asked them to fit a SMF, they wouldn't have touched it as it wouldn't have been sourced through their "authorised" dealer-distributor channel.

Some of these guys are now happy to let customers supply their own parts and are doing the labour for cash! This kind of stuff was unheard of from main dealers only 1-2 years ago, but if you're pricing up a clutch & flywheel job in a main dealer at €1.5k based on the dealer getting the parts through his "authorised" distributor supply channel, and you have a customer coming back to saying that they can get the same job done through a well recommended Indy for €700 all in, using a SMF type solution, what do you do?!?!?

It's actually the stuff of a new thread on the whole subject, cos from what I'm seeing, the motor industry is gonna be a very very different place in a few short years, from what it looks like at the moment, and whether this ultimately pans out to be a better thing for the motorist, I'm not very certain of...