A 10k race where athletics clubs are not allowed enter a team

TRR

Was looking around for a 10k in the middle of October and found one right on my doorstep. It is being organised by a local GAA club. Said I'd give it a shot seen as it was so close to home but when I read the following it put me off a bit.

Team entry of 5 people (athletic clubs excluded)
We are calling on all GAA clubs and other sporting clubs to enter our team race. A team is made up of five members from the same club. The first club to have all five nominated members across the line will receive a cash prize!

Now I wasn't planning on entering a team so it doesn't really effect me but if my athletics club put on a charity 5 a side tournament and didn't allow soccer teams to enter I'd think it was a bit odd. I get why they want to have a team comp for local rivalry with other GAA/soccer clubs but it comes across as being a bit odd to exclude athletics clubs, maybe they should have an athletics club prize and non-athletics club prize.

RayCun

There was one in Wexford last month too, "devised by runners for runners" - but run by and for the GAA club

Cash prizes will be awarded for the first 5 male and female runners and first over 40, 50 & 60. There is also a team race for teams of 5 people from sports clubs (with the exception of running clubs).

They backed down on that eventually.

robinph

But athletics clubs are excluded from the BHAA races for team prizes as it's based on your line of work. Isn't this the same?

kit3

TRR wrote: »

Was looking around for a 10k in the middle of October and found one right on my doorstep. It is being organised by a local GAA club. Said I'd give it a shot seen as it was so close to home but when I read the following it put me off a bit.

Team entry of 5 people (athletic clubs excluded)
We are calling on all GAA clubs and other sporting clubs to enter our team race. A team is made up of five members from the same club. The first club to have all five nominated members across the line will receive a cash prize!

Now I wasn't planning on entering a team so it doesn't really effect me but if my athletics club put on a charity 5 a side tournament and didn't allow soccer teams to enter I'd think it was a bit odd. I get why they want to have a team comp for local rivalry with other GAA/soccer clubs but it comes across as being a bit odd to exclude athletics clubs, maybe they should have an athletics club prize and non-athletics club prize.

Saw this too. My kids play with the club in question but only saw mention of the race in the local paper. It hasn't been advertised by the usual club channels which is strange given that it is on 10th October. It would appear to me that not a lot of thought has gone into organising it. Your point makes perfect sense. It would be worth raising it with the club and pointing this out. In fairness to them they are very inclusive normally so I would hope that they just didn't think this out, given that it's their first time.

RacoonQueen

robinph wrote: »

But athletics clubs are excluded from the BHAA races for team prizes as it's based on your line of work. Isn't this the same?

but no club can win team prizes at BHAA. MSB can't enter a team into BHAA races in the same way a GAA club can't.

I suppose it's to encourage gaa clubs to enter teams as they figure people won't bother running if all the top lads from the clubs enter and run, well gaa clubs can't enter teams into a club race, can they? Is there actually any restriction on that?

ultraman1

i think Donore ac are having a charity ball keepy uppy marathon,members of Gaa clubs,and anyone who has played 5 a side arent allowed to enter.....i

RayCun

RacoonQueen wrote: »

well gaa clubs can't enter teams into a club race, can they? Is there actually any restriction on that?

A Boards team won a prize at Rathfarnham 5k last year, even though boards wasn't a registered club any more and the people on the team didn't even know each other :pac: I think you could have put down anything - GAA club, workplace team, book club - and won the prize.

(I think they changed the scoring this year so there only had to be one scoring woman)

shels4ever

RacoonQueen wrote: »

but no club can win team prizes at BHAA. MSB can't enter a team into BHAA races in the same way a GAA club can't.

I suppose it's to encourage gaa clubs to enter teams as they figure people won't bother running if all the top lads from the clubs enter and run, well gaa clubs can't enter teams into a club race, can they? Is there actually any restriction on that?

GAA club can enter in any race that has team prizes as they have done in the Raheny 5 in the past. But they wouldn't be able to enter a team in the Novice XC because mmmmm they are not running clubs.
If the race has an AAI permit then there is no way they can do that, but if they don't then there is no way they can know a team are Athletic club members unless they just DQ anyone who actually runs fast Show up in a pair of o'neils shorts and you'll be grand .

Gringo78

TRR wrote: »

The first club to have all five nominated members across the line will receive a cash prize!

This type of team scoring is different than normal athletics club races - means basically doesn't matter how fast your first 4 are relative to other teams, you just need your 5th guy to be faster than anyone else's 5th guy

robinph

RacoonQueen wrote: »

but no club can win team prizes at BHAA. MSB can't enter a team into BHAA races in the same way a GAA club can't.

I suppose it's to encourage gaa clubs to enter teams as they figure people won't bother running if all the top lads from the clubs enter and run, well gaa clubs can't enter teams into a club race, can they? Is there actually any restriction on that?

It's not quite a exact comparison, but it's not far off. Not unreasonable for them to do it like this I think, the idea being to get people running.

The athletics clubs should look at it as an opportunity, get out there and talent spot, hand out fliers at the finish about your next race, talk to people about joining your club.

TRR

Anyway ................. to be a bit of a mischievous fecker I'm trying to get a team together now. Anybody who wants to run for Sporting Lesbians FC (a team name we used for our 5 aside team when kids) PM me and I'll put you into the pot.

TRR

robinph wrote: »

It's not quite a exact comparison, but it's not far off. Not unreasonable for them to do it like this I think, the idea being to get people running.

The athletics clubs should look at it as an opportunity, get out there and talent spot, hand out fliers at the finish about your next race, talk to people about joining your club.

Yeah the idea is to get people running but at the same time it puts club runners off so may have more of a negative than positive effect.

pconn062

I tend to avoid races organised by/for GAA clubs full stop, why don't they organise charity matches or fun days/coffee mornings instead of organising races, something the most of them have no experience in doing.

Timmaay

There was a local GAA "fundraising" race down near me a while back. 12 people in total took part in it, mostly members of myown local athletics club! The GAA lads in team didn't even bother taking part themselves in the race! The athletics calendar is utterly flooded with lots of high quality cheap athletics club races, so best thing to do is look after ourown sport firstly, do ourown races which we know are generally well organized, cheap and have decent prizes etc, and put money back into grassroutes athletics.

There are too many of these 1/2 arsed races, often for good causes/charities (which I'm certainly not disputing), however people not involved with athletics have this idea that all running is just purely for charity and all ya got to do is slap on a race and the money will come flowing in! (Rant off my chest for today :P)

TRR

pconn062 wrote: »

I tend to avoid races organised by/for GAA clubs full stop, why don't they organise charity matches or fun days/coffee mornings instead of organising races, something the most of them have no experience in doing.

A lot of GAA clubs have runners involved. I agree they can be sometime dodgy races and you take a risk but I did the kilomarathon in Kilcock last weekend and it was excellent. Will definitely go back. Same as everything, it really depends on the race director and his/her experience and knowledge.

pconn062

TRR wrote: »

A lot of GAA clubs have runners involved. I agree they can be sometime dodgy races and you take a risk but I did the kilomarathon in Kilcock last weekend and it was excellent. Will definitely go back. Same as everything, it really depends on the race director and his/her experience and knowledge.

True, maybe I've just had too many bad experiences!

Completely agree with everything in Timmaay's post above.

seamus

Aside from the valid argument that allowing AC teams is effectively sandbagging the race and will discourage other "normal" teams from entering, would it be fair to say that AC teams are less likely to go begging for charity on the back of it?

That is, that an AC team will pay their money, turn up and take the prizes - it's just another race for them. Whereas a workplace-based team will go look for money from their employer and colleagues? So it's worth more to the organisation to encourage ad-hoc teams.

Krusty_Clown

seamus wrote: »

Aside from the valid argument that allowing AC teams is effectively sandbagging the race and will discourage other "normal" teams from entering, would it be fair to say that AC teams are less likely to go begging for charity on the back of it?

That is, that an AC team will pay their money, turn up and take the prizes - it's just another race for them. Whereas a workplace-based team will go look for money from their employer and colleagues? So it's worth more to the organisation to encourage ad-hoc teams.

You are perhaps suggesting an environment where the charity element comes from sponsorship cards rather than the race entry fee. In the case of the entry fee, it doesn't impact the charity who registers for the race. The more the merrier. In the case of sponsorship cards, it also doesn't matter whether you are an AC member or a non-AC member. You will go down the sponsorship card route once or twice, before your colleagues, family and friends will tire of the 'Look at me, I'm doing another 10k, sponsor me' petitions.

If a charity race wants to avoid giving the prize-money to AC members, the answer is simple (but horrible): Spot-prizes. Instead of rewarding performance, reward randomness.

ThePiedPiper

My ex-GAA club, Scotstown, up in Monaghan put on a bloody mighty 5 mile race this past 2 or 3 years, known as The Ned Run. They'd 800-900 running it this year, mostly local people, at least 200-300 present/ex footballers. I thought I'd be in with a shot at a podium, but some bright spark decided to invite a top runner from Raheny down. Himeself and a couple of lads from Armagh locked up the first 3 places and I got 4th. I was amazed how well the race was organised. There was a bit of tongue-in-cheek stuff from the locals about me being a supposed pro and very runnery looking, but they were delighted to see the local lads from Phoenix and Glaslough showing up and supporting it.

What the club did very well was to actually involve a few of the lads from Phoenix, get their input and help in organising the event. There were prizes for fastest teams alright, but I think it was more a case of the xxx Bar team, or yyy Family Surname team, etc. The club you're talking about TRR, should be encouraging ACs to take part in, as it raises the profile, raises the funds received, etc.

seamus

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You are perhaps suggesting an environment where the charity element comes from sponsorship cards rather than the race entry fee.

Yep, though there are plenty of cases where you can pay your fee and separately choose to fundraise.

As you quite rightly point out, your regular club runners will get very little money out of their family for running another 10k without a "I will break 35 mins" gimmick, so it's in the interests of the organisers to encourage non-club runners and walkers who might give it a go once or twice a year.

As you point out though, it's not exactly the cleverest way of making money, as the amount of sponsorship will dwindle very quickly if running continues to grow in popularity as it has over the last couple of years.

Random prizes probably are a good idea, or if it's a fun-run they're after, prizes like "best dressed" will encourage more people to take part.

pconn062

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You are perhaps suggesting an environment where the charity element comes from sponsorship cards rather than the race entry fee. In the case of the entry fee, it doesn't impact the charity who registers for the race. The more the merrier. In the case of sponsorship cards, it also doesn't matter whether you are an AC member or a non-AC member. You will go down the sponsorship card route once or twice, before your colleagues, family and friends will tire of the 'Look at me, I'm doing another 10k, sponsor me' petitions.

If a charity race wants to avoid giving the prize-money to AC members, the answer is simple (but horrible): Spot-prizes. Instead of rewarding performance, reward randomness.

This is one of the biggest problems with charity races in my opinion, the lack of prizes given. Most club races are fund raising efforts for the club and in some cases they are the biggest source of income for a club but the majority still have a full list of prizes for first three male, female, AG and juniors. Compare this to most "charity races" where it is usually only first three male/female and no AG prizes and in some cases (I think this relates to the Kilcock race) not even prizes for 2nd and 3rd male/female. And these races are usually more expensive.

But I think it ultimately comes down to which races you choose to support, most of the good club races (and some of the good charity ones) will continue to exist long after this current boom is over.

rom

God I hate the GAA.

TRR

pconn062 wrote: »

Compare this to most "charity races" where it is usually only first three male/female and no AG prizes and in some cases (I think this relates to the Kilcock race) not even prizes for 2nd and 3rd male/female. And these races are usually more expensive.

True and good point, prize structure of that race was a bit odd this year, but it was their first year and the RD was open to suggestions so I'll definitely email that one onto him (I've no affiliation to the race by the way). However an old Clown from these parts did manage to bag the one and only "old pensioner" prize

Krusty_Clown

pconn062 wrote: »

Compare this to most "charity races" where it is usually only first three male/female and no AG prizes and in some cases (I think this relates to the Kilcock race) not even prizes for 2nd and 3rd male/female.

Hey, hey, hey. Let's not be so hasty. I agree with you in principle, just not where it relates to a certain race at the weekend, where the prize structure couldn't have been better.... (for me anyway)...

pconn062

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hey, hey, hey. Let's not be so hasty. I agree with you in principle, just not where it relates to a certain race at the weekend, where the prize structure couldn't have been better.... (for me anyway)...

Proving that sometimes it can pay off to be a more "mature" runner!! :pac:

Speedtrap

TRR wrote: »

A lot of GAA clubs have runners involved. I agree they can be sometime dodgy races and you take a risk but I did the kilomarathon in Kilcock last weekend and it was excellent. Will definitely go back. Same as everything, it really depends on the race director and his/her experience and knowledge.

That Kilcock race had an AAI permit and was co hosted by St Cocas AC. that explains why it was quality.
Re GAA clubs putting on races, an official of a Meath athletic club went to a Meath GAA official earlier this year asking what did the athletic club have to do to put on "charity GAA matches".

The GAA official was utterly bemused by such a request. Then the athletics official explained that road races should go through a permit system if only for reasons of standards and insurance.

Each sport should have some form of governance over its domain!! It is manners and courtesy. You wont find ball game clubs putting on horse races, they go through legit channels and hire corporate entertainment facilities at racecourses...because that is the way it is. Running is a pushover for fundraising of all sorts. Clubs and national governing bodies in ALL SPORTS exist for sound and valid reasons.

kit3

TRR wrote: »

Anyway ................. to be a bit of a mischievous fecker I'm trying to get a team together now. Anybody who wants to run for Sporting Lesbians FC (a team name we used for our 5 aside team when kids) PM me and I'll put you into the pot.

I see that this event has now been cancelled - I guess the Sporting Lesbians will have to wait till another day ......

rom

kit3 wrote: »

I see that this event has now been cancelled - I guess the Sporting Lesbians will have to wait till another day ......

Every cloud ...

nerraw1111

I see the is this race that was supposed to happen in Clondalkin.

Any other suggestions for an alternative race?

D Chief

nerraw1111 wrote: »

I see the is this race that was supposed to happen in Clondalkin.

Any other suggestions for an alternative race?

10k in Parkwest on Saturday

http://www.runforalife.ie/

CrabRevolution

Speedtrap wrote: »

That Kilcock race had an AAI permit and was co hosted by St Cocas AC. that explains why it was quality.
Re GAA clubs putting on races, an official of a Meath athletic club went to a Meath GAA official earlier this year asking what did the athletic club have to do to put on "charity GAA matches".

The GAA official was utterly bemused by such a request. Then the athletics official explained that road races should go through a permit system if only for reasons of standards and insurance.

Each sport should have some form of governance over its domain!! It is manners and courtesy. You wont find ball game clubs putting on horse races, they go through legit channels and hire corporate entertainment facilities at racecourses...because that is the way it is. Running is a pushover for fundraising of all sorts. Clubs and national governing bodies in ALL SPORTS exist for sound and valid reasons.

As a Meath man who plays hurling and football, I can safely say that those officials are only marginaly more helpful to GAA clubs than they are to Athletics clubs, you needn't take it as a slight....