Facebook Photo Copyright

nicknackgtb

Hi guys,

I posted up a photo to my Facebook page with my watermark placed in the corner of the picture.

Another company has taken my image, cropped it off and placed their own image on the photograph. Then they proceeded to place it on their facebook page as advertisement for themselves.

The availability on the photo was set to public (not custom or friends).

I have talked to the company in question and invoiced them accordingly, but they say they have a right to take it from facebook, edit it and put it back up again.

From reading various articles on photography and copyright and talked to many people, I am under the strong impression that I, the photographer, hold the copyright of the image, no matter what. I licence Facebook to use it from when I created the page originally, but that is all.

Please help and let me know is this company in the wrong?

cheers

ResearchWill

Not legal advice from face books page


Sharing Your Content and Information

You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
When you delete IP content, it is deleted in a manner similar to emptying the recycle bin on a computer. However, you understand that removed content may persist in backup copies for a reasonable period of time (but will not be available to others).
When you use an application, the application may ask for your permission to access your content and information as well as content and information that others have shared with you. We require applications to respect your privacy, and your agreement with that application will control how the application can use, store, and transfer that content and information. (To learn more about Platform, including how you can control what information other people may share with applications, read our Data Use Policy and Platform Page.)
When you publish content or information using the Public setting, it means that you are allowing everyone, including people off of Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture).
We always appreciate your feedback or other suggestions about Facebook, but you understand that we may use them without any obligation to compensate you for them (just as you have no obligation to offer them).

From http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

It's stuff like the above that made be decide to terminate my Facebook page a good while ago.

nicknackgtb

ResearchWill wrote: »

Not legal advice from face books page


Sharing Your Content and Information

You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
When you delete IP content, it is deleted in a manner similar to emptying the recycle bin on a computer. However, you understand that removed content may persist in backup copies for a reasonable period of time (but will not be available to others).
When you use an application, the application may ask for your permission to access your content and information as well as content and information that others have shared with you. We require applications to respect your privacy, and your agreement with that application will control how the application can use, store, and transfer that content and information. (To learn more about Platform, including how you can control what information other people may share with applications, read our Data Use Policy and Platform Page.)
When you publish content or information using the Public setting, it means that you are allowing everyone, including people off of Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture).
We always appreciate your feedback or other suggestions about Facebook, but you understand that we may use them without any obligation to compensate you for them (just as you have no obligation to offer them).

From http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

It's stuff like the above that made be decide to terminate my Facebook page a good while ago.

Yes I've seen all this, but as regards photograph copyright theft. So what your telling me is that I own the picture that I put up on facebook but I dont?

usernamegoes

nicknackgtb wrote: »

Yes I've seen all this, but as regards photograph copyright theft. So what your telling me is that I own the picture that I put up on facebook but I dont?

did facebook use it or a third party?

ResearchWill

nicknackgtb wrote: »

Yes I've seen all this, but as regards photograph copyright theft. So what your telling me is that I own the picture that I put up on facebook but I dont?

The giving of legal advice is not allowed on this forum.

The issue will of course be how did the get the picture. I do not know, even if I did I could give any advice.

BTW I did not say anything other than quote the T&C's of Facebook and make a personal comment about why I left that site. I made no comment on your ownership of the photo.

touts

I think this is a case of try to sue us if you want. They will try to bully you into going away. For example if you do threaten to go legal they will probably respond demanding a huge deposit to be lodged with the court to cover their legal costs should you lose. You could turn the tables on them and post details of the theft on every site related to their business you can find until they threaten legal action against you. But in the end most likely outcome is a lot of grief and eventually they will just take down the photo and use someone elses.

Best to put future watermarks across the middle of the image (unfortunately).

nicknackgtb

usernamegoes wrote: »

did facebook use it or a third party?

It was a 3rd party that used it, not facebook, nor did this party ask for permission from me for the use of the photo as allocated in the facebook terms.

I am not sure if they got the picture off my website (which would be copyright theft for definate) or whether it was facebook. Thats why I am trying to find out if they are allowed do that??

ResearchWill

touts wrote: »

I think this is a case of try to sue us if you want. They will try to bully you into going away. For example if you do threaten to go legal they will probably respond demanding a huge deposit to be lodged with the court to cover their legal costs should you lose. You could turn the tables on them and post details of the theft on every site related to their business you can find until they threaten legal action against you. But in the end most likely outcome is a lot of grief and eventually they will just take down the photo and use someone elses.

Best to put future watermarks across the middle of the image (unfortunately).

And if the third party actually bought the photo from Facebook, there may be an issue with posting that they stole the image.

nicknackgtb

touts wrote: »

I think this is a case of try to sue us if you want. They will try to bully you into going away. For example if you do threaten to go legal they will probably respond demanding a huge deposit to be lodged with the court to cover their legal costs should you lose. You could turn the tables on them and post details of the theft on every site related to their business you can find until they threaten legal action against you. But in the end most likely outcome is a lot of grief and eventually they will just take down the photo and use someone elses.

Best to put future watermarks across the middle of the image (unfortunately).

Thats unfort the last thing I want to do as I want people to appreciate the images in all their glory as I would be proud of it! I can prove completely that the photo is definately mine should the legal end of things ever occur, its just whether they are allowed take the picture from facebook, edit it and post it as their own. I'm pretty sure they are not but just want a bit of help on the matter from those who may know or have an idea about
Ty

Procrastastudy

nicknackgtb wrote: »

Thats unfort the last thing I want to do as I want people to appreciate the images in all their glory as I would be proud of it! I can prove completely that the photo is definately mine should the legal end of things ever occur, its just whether they are allowed take the picture from facebook, edit it and post it as their own. I'm pretty sure they are not but just want a bit of help on the matter from those who may know or have an idea about
Ty

You might want that but if you read the charter you'll find no one is allowed to provide that. We're not being difficult - we're simply not allowed (or in my case unable) to. That said you could have easily phrased your question in a way that could have been answered.

ResearchWill

nicknackgtb wrote: »

Thats unfort the last thing I want to do as I want people to appreciate the images in all their glory as I would be proud of it! I can prove completely that the photo is definately mine should the legal end of things ever occur, its just whether they are allowed take the picture from facebook, edit it and post it as their own. I'm pretty sure they are not but just want a bit of help on the matter from those who may know or have an idea about
Ty

If they just lifted it straight from your Facebook page I believe you would be right.

Of course if bought from Facebook that would change matters.

I think there is a photo thread on this site they maybe able to give far more info.

nicknackgtb

ResearchWill wrote: »

If they just lifted it straight from your Facebook page I believe you would be right.

Of course if bought from Facebook that would change matters.

I think there is a photo thread on this site they maybe able to give far more info.

Thanks Will, I was on that and they closed the thread as they thought It was being resolved and just got into nitty bitty arguments etc!

I just looking to know if I am always the rightful owner of my photos on my facebook page, and if I would have a case to fight my corner cause I'm only small time and dealing with a company who would have muchos better funding than myself!!

nicknackgtb

Procrastastudy wrote: »

You might want that but if you read the charter you'll find no one is allowed to provide that. We're not being difficult - we're simply not allowed (or in my case unable) to. That said you could have easily phrased your question in a way that could have been answered.

I understand mate, thank you.

Procrastastudy

Is the company concerned even based in Ireland? Try phoning a few solicitors and get a rough idea of cost that way.

nicknackgtb

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Is the company concerned even based in Ireland? Try phoning a few solicitors and get a rough idea of cost that way.

Well there are 2 companies, one who edited and used the image and one that used the image. They are in NI and England respectively

Procrastastudy

nicknackgtb wrote: »

Well there are 2 companies, one who edited and used the image and one that used the image. They are in NI and England respectively

Try a few solicitors - I think there is a specialist IP firm up the north.

dublin daz

Similar issue here with the Department of Justice using a private picture on the cover of the Cloyne Report. They ended up removing it as the owner never gave his permission etc. Might give you an idea etc. Hope it helps somewhat.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056327399