Saorview Aerial - what type of cable?

trotter_inc

Hey guys.

My parents in law have a Philips TV which has a built in Saorview receiver. A few months ago they had a digital aerial installed and the guy who installed it did the following:

1. Put the digital aerial in the attic

2. Connected the digital aerial to an existing coaxial cable (which they were using for the analogue channels

3. In the downstairs TV room he connected the coaxial cable in to an 'amplifier' * box. The output from this box is a white cable, the same type as can be seen here http://www.saorview.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/03.pdf

* This box is small enough, it says something about 'amplifier 20 dB' on it

This setup worked fine at the start, but over the past few weeks the reception on the RTE digitial channels was coming and going and the picture was pretty much distorted. However, over the weekend the digital channels are not coming through at all. I ran a search for digital channels on their TV and nothing is being found This setup should suffice, right?

Could it be a problem with the TVs Saorview receiver? Could it be a cabling problem? I checked all the cables and they appear to be fine.

Any ideas?

John mac

First off There is no such thing as a Digital aerial..


what were they using for the analogue channels before the guy came in ?

is the existing aerial still in the attic or on the roof?

you could try connecting the aerial to the tv directly (without going through the amplifer. )

MarkK

Do you know which transmitter you are using?
Are the analogue channels still coming in ok?

coylemj

There is no such thing as a 'digital aerial'. Could you give us a rough idea where your parents in law live.

Were they previously receiving analog TV from an older aerial? If 'yes', could they get TV3 and/or TG4 from that aerial? If they could, it's almost 100% certain that that aerial would suffice for Saorview.

If the signal is that weak that you need to amplify the signal, why didn't he put the aerial on the roof?

The Cush

Is the amp located close to the TV?
Does the amp feed this TV only or is it connected to other TVs around the house?

Have you tried bypassing the amp and connecting the aerial directly into the TV?

trotter_inc

MarkK wrote: »

Are the analogue channels still coming in ok?

They are coming in, but the reception isn't the best, it was always this way. But when they got the new TV the digital channels came in perfectly.

MarkK wrote: »

Do you know which transmitter you are using?

They live a few miles north of Clonakilty in West Cork and the aerial is pointing directly South....I hope that answers your question

Thanks for the prompt reply!!

trotter_inc

The Cush wrote: »

Is the amp located close to the TV?
Does the amp feed this TV only or is it connected to other TVs around the house?

Have you tried bypassing the amp and connecting the aerial directly into the TV?

The amp box is directly behind the TV and its not linked to any other TVs.

I was thinking about plugging the cable directly in to the TV instead of the amp box but the cable coming from the attic is a coaxial type cable and the new TV doesnt have a connection for this. It only has scart connections and a cable connection the same as on this page http://www.saorview.ie/wp-content/up...2011/03/03.pdf

trotter_inc

coylemj wrote: »

Were they previously receiving analog TV from an older aerial? If 'yes', could they get TV3 and/or TG4 from that aerial? If they could, it's almost 100% certain that that aerial would suffice for Saorview.

If the signal is that weak that you need to amplify the signal, why didn't he put the aerial on the roof?

Yes, they were previously using an older aerial. I've no idea why the aerial wasnt put on the roof, I guess the engineer got reception from the attic and left it that way....but I can ask.

Thanks to you too for the reply

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

The amp box is directly behind the TV and its not linked to any other TVs.

I was thinking about plugging the cable directly in to the TV instead of the amp box but the cable coming from the attic is a coaxial type cable and the new TV doesnt have a connection for this. It only has scart connections and a cable connection the same as on this page http://www.saorview.ie/wp-content/up...2011/03/03.pdf

I'ne never seen a TV without a co-ax connector, what does the feed from the amp connect to?

trotter_inc

We live 1 mile up the road and we are receiving a perfect digital signal by having our aerial in the attic too. But, we are using a saorview sat box with an old TV rather than a newer TV with built in Saorview receiver. We are on slightly higher ground, but only very slightly higher.

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

We live 1 mile up the road and we are receiving a perfect digital signal by having our aerial in the attic too. But, we are using a saorview sat box with an old TV rather than a newer TV with built in Saorview receiver. We are on slightly higher ground, but only very slightly higher.

So do you have a Saorview box only or a Saorview box and amp with your parents TV?

trotter_inc

The Cush wrote: »

I'ne never seen a TV without a co-ax connector, what does the feed from the amp connect to?

The cable coming out from the amp box is exactly like this:

http://www.linetechchina.com/e/cables/tv/p51.html

This then goes in to the back of the TV.

coylemj

There is a relay in Clonakility so if your parents in law are north of the town then the aerial is pointing in the right direction.

I'd still love to know how the guy could justify putting an aerial in the attic and then install an amplifier downstairs.

Could they receive TV3 and/or TG4 before off the old aerial?

If your TV has a Saorview tuner then it must have a female co-ax socket on the rear as shown in that Saorview document. The link in your later post by the way is invalid but the first one works.

coylemj

trotter_inc wrote: »

The cable coming out from the amp box is exactly like this:

http://www.linetechchina.com/e/cables/tv/p51.html

This then goes in to the back of the TV.

What does the cable going into the amp look like?

trotter_inc

The Cush wrote: »

So do you have a Saorview box only or a Saorview box and amp with your parents TV?

Me - Aerial, saorview box, old TV - signal is fine

Parents in law - Aerial (same as ours), amp box behind the TV, TV has built in saorview receiver - signal was fine but gradually went poor - but its completely gone now

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

The cable coming out from the amp box is exactly like this:

http://www.linetechchina.com/e/cables/tv/p51.html

This then goes in to the back of the TV.

Remove the aerial feed from the amp and plug it into the TV where the fly lead from amp currently connects.

St Senan

coylemj wrote: »

I'd still love to know how the guy could justify putting an aerial in the attic and then install an amplifier downstairs.

+1

The Cush

@trotter_inc

Not much point having the amp at the TV. If you require an amp the best place for it would be in the attic after the aerial. That close to the Clonakilty transmitter I'd doubt you require an amp at all if the aerial is feeding 1 TV only.

Boosters always come before a loss, not after

Never put a booster just before your TV unless the TV is more than 20 years old or the booster is a distribution amplifier to give you more sockets. And even then it should really be in the loft

http://www.megalithia.com/elect/boostercasc/index.html

trotter_inc

coylemj wrote: »

What does the cable going into the amp look like?

It's one of those 'older type' cables, the ones which seem to be around forever, I googled for a pic but couldnt find one. This is the cable which comes down from attic.

Edit - it's the same as this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Picture_peer_review/TV_aerial_plug

From what I saw last night, the TV doesnt have a connection which would take the cable coming from the attic. This means that I can't plug the cable which is coming from the attic directly in to the TV. I hope I make sense!

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

It's one of those 'older type' cables, the ones which seem to be around forever, I googled for a pic but couldnt find one. This is the cable which comes down from attic.

Is it brown in colour?

The Cush

The aerial in attic, does it look like any of these - http://www.tvtrade.ie/tv-and-radio-aerials/uhf-aerials.html ?

Is there a plastic coloured cap/bung/tape on the aerial?

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

From what I saw last night, the TV doesnt have a connection which would take the cable coming from the attic. This means that I can't plug the cable which is coming from the attic directly in to the TV. I hope I make sense!

Not really . All TVs have a co-ax socket for a co-ax plug, the output from your amp is currently attached to it.

St Senan

I think the best thing would be for the Digital aerial saorview installer to come back and rectify this problem. If he cant rectify it tell him to read this thread. After all he is the one who installed this and is gone with the money.

trotter_inc

The Cush wrote: »

Is it brown in colour?

Yep, just like this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...TV_aerial_plug

Simon collins

LOL @ the "Digital Aerial"

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

Yep, just like this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...TV_aerial_plug

If the cable is brown cable it should still work, test the aerial without amp and see how it goes.

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

My parents in law have a Philips TV which has a built in Saorview receiver. A few months ago they had a digital aerial installed and the guy who installed it did the following:

Did the installer replace an existing attic "analogue" aerial pointing in the same direction?

zg3409

I would ring the installer and say the aerial he installed is not working. Assuming it is something he installed that has gone faulty then there should be no charge.

The only catch is every installer, even genuine reliable ones, are mad busy and will be for a month. I would suggest you probably have a bad connection somewhere, most likely at the sitting room end either before or after the booster or just where it connects to the Saorview box.

As said try it with the amp removed and see if it gets better or worse?

Ronnie Raygun

trotter_inc wrote: »

... TV has built in saorview receiver - signal was fine but gradually went poor - but its completely gone now

Is there a possibility the tv might have become tuned to a different transmitter, maybe Mullaghanish (UHF ch.21)? Maybe Mulla would be a better choice anyway?

And is the "20dB amplifier" just there for this one tv set? If that's the case, it's a very poor installation.

The Cush

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

And is the "20dB amplifier" just there for this one tv set? If that's the case, it's a very poor installation.

Yes, he posted earlier its connected to 1 TV via a flylead.

trotter_inc

Thanks for all the replies guys, here's an update...

We connected the cable coming down from the aerial directly in to the TV and did a Search for digital channels on the TV...0 channels were found. By doing this the analogue channels couldnt be found either. When we plugged the cable back in to the amplifier box the analogue channels came back (a red light on the box also came on - 'UHF') but as before no digital channels could be found. Maybe I should have pointed out that the analogue channels and the digital channels are being carried on the same cable.

I know it was a long shot....but I brought over my aerial to test that....we plugged it straight in to the TV and brought the aeriel outside. We stood on a ladder holding the aerial just slightly lower than the height of their current aerial, but as before no channels were found.

I suppose we should call the engineer out now, right?

Just before I do that...when I search for the digital channels on the TV (Philips) there's not much settings available...I go to TV Settings - Search - Digital TV Test - Search. The Search screen appears with "0.0.0 MHz", I select the Search button and more or less straight away I get "0 channels found".

The Cush

My earlier post #21, did you have a look at the aerial in the attic? Check the connections back to the aerial?

Use the Saorview coverage checker to identify the recommended transmitter for your parents location - http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

trotter_inc

The Cush wrote: »

My earlier post #21, did you have a look at the aerial in the attic? Check the connections back to the aerial?

Use the Saorview coverage checker to identify the recommended transmitter for your parents location - http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/

Yeah, from what we can see the connection in the attic are all fine.

I ran the saorview checker and it oddly told us to point towards MULLAGHANISH, this is approx 30 miles from where we live but there is a transmitter in Rosscarbery which is approx 8 miles from where we live The engineer pointed this aeriel to Rosscarbery and our own aerial is pointing to Rosscarbery too and our reception is fine.

Site:Rosscarbery
Site On-Air:Yes
Channel:57
AERIALINFORMATION
Polarization:H
Direction to point (degrees): South East

Above are the details for the Rosscarbery transmitter, what does channel 57 mean? When I search for channels on the TV, do I need to update any settings? Could it be a problem with how I'm searching for channels on the TV?

Peter Rhea

Rosscarbery Saorview was only switched on a couple of days ago, so your so-called engineer shouldn't have used it before then. It's a fairly low powered transmitter & wouldn't be a great choice from 8 miles away with an attic aerial.

The distance to Mullaghanish is no big deal, as it's a 200kW station on top of a 2,000 odd ft. mountain.

The Cush

Mullaghanish is a hi power transmitter so 30 miles is no great distance, I use Mullaghanish in NW Limerick. Mullaghanish requires a Group A aerial (red bung).

Did you see a colour bung on the aerial in the attic e.g. red, black, green etc?

The Clonakilty transmitter would be closer (Rosscarbery is a low power transmitter for that general area) but as the coverage checker recommends Mullaghanish it might be a better option.

57 is the UHF channel number which represents a particular frequency that the Saorview channels are carried on, see the last page of this RTÉNL list of frequencies - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SAORVIEW-Frequencies-Rev-2.4.pdf

zg3409

trotter_inc wrote: »

what does channel 57 mean? When I search for channels on the TV, do I need to update any settings? Could it be a problem with how I'm searching for channels on the TV?

Instead of an automatic scan you have the option of a manual scan. Normally this asks for a channel number. In this case you should put in 57 or the mullaganish channel number. The manual scan can be more reliable at picking up weak signals. An automatic scan should work but it can give problems sometimes. If you know what you are doing a manual scan can also be much faster.

trotter_inc

The Cush wrote: »

Mullaghanish is a hi power transmitter so 30 miles is no great distance, I use Mullaghanish in NW Limerick. Mullaghanish requires a Group A aerial (red bung).

Did you see a colour bung on the aerial in the attic e.g. red, black, green etc?

The Clonakilty transmitter would be closer (Rosscarbery is a low power transmitter for that general area) but as the coverage checker recommends Mullaghanish it might be a better option.

57 is the UHF channel number which represents a particular frequency that the Saorview channels are carried on, see the last page of this RTÉNL list of frequencies - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SAORVIEW-Frequencies-Rev-2.4.pdf

I think the aerial looks the same as this one, it def doesnt have a red bung on it The tip is black.

http://www.tvtrade.ie/black-wideband-uhf-aerial.html

zg3409

Black means wideband which should be OK. Ideally in weak signal areas you would use a non wideband aerial which is designed for the particular channels being sent from the mast.

The Cush

trotter_inc wrote: »

I think the aerial looks the same as this one, it def doesnt have a red bung on it The tip is black.

http://www.tvtrade.ie/black-wideband-uhf-aerial.html

Point the aerial in the general dirction of Mullaghanish and see how it goes, don't bother with the amp behind the TV, relocate it to the attic if they plan to add further TVs. UHF channel 21, at the start of the scan is where you'll find the Mullaghanish Saorview channels.

trotter_inc

The Cush wrote: »

Point the aerial in the general dirction of Mullaghanish and see how it goes, don't bother with the amp behind the TV, relocate it to the attic if they plan to add further TVs. UHF channel 21, at the start of the scan is where you'll find the Mullaghanish Saorview channels.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it...I'll try this later on this evening...fingers crossed

trotter_inc

Issue has been resolved

The amp up on the aerial had blown, well that's what the engineer said anyway! When he tested the signal strength coming in to the TV it was extremely weak so he checked the amp up on the aerial and apparently it had blown. He replaced it and straight away the signal was strong again and my parents in law had a very strong signal again.

Thanks for all the advice here guys, at least we ruled out all other issues before calling him

Peter Rhea

Blown? He probably removed the power supply from behind the tv & fitted his own crappy amp & didn't know what was going on. What's fitted beside the tv now?

Ronnie Raygun

trotter_inc wrote: »

The amp up on the aerial had blown

That's the 1st mention you've made of another amplifier. Maybe it's the 1st your "engineer" knew of it too. Or maybe not.

I suspect most of us here would have had the box beside the tv down as a PSU, if it weren't for the fact you mentioned the "amplifier 20dB" wording on it. As already advised, take a look & see what's there now.