Cack Handed Lessons

Albundy30

Anyone know of a pro in Ireland who gives lessons to cack handed golfers?
I am really comfortable with my grip and just want to improve as much as possible. Not looking to switch to the "correct" grip so save the speeches as i have heard them all before haha

onlyfinewine

Albundy30 wrote: »

Anyone know of a pro in Ireland who gives lessons to cack handed golfers?
I am really comfortable with my grip and just want to improve as much as possible. Not looking to switch to the "correct" grip so save the speeches as i have heard them all before haha

Have seen courses where there is no pro and the lads have been hurlers in their younger days, seems to lead to a large amount of cack-handed golfers who play to a good standard. Well it is a stick and ball game in essence. Doneraile in North Cork comes to mind as an example.

I remember a golfer from around the Naas or Newbridge area called Harry McQuillan who played off scratch or plus cack-handed, he won a number of scratch cups if I am not mistaken. There was also a South African pro called Sewsunker Sewgollum (Excuse the spelling I am not sure of that) who won a few events on the South African Tour also playing cack-handed,

There is no need to feel you are different, but a good teaching pro should be able to check your alignment, posture, aim and set up despite the unorthodox grip and progress from there.
As to the correct grip. who is to say which hand has to be at the top of the grip? hurling would generally give you a different answer as the top hand tends to be the right hand for a right handed player.

Not so long ago a golfer using the left hand low in putting would have been derided, but it is now accepted and even promoted as keeping the shoulders level during the stroke, and avoiding flipping and left wrist breakdown in the follow through.

I would suggest you talk to a pro and see how you feel about his attitude to your grip and go with one that you are comfortable with.

Either was it's nice to hear from someone who genuinely wants to improve their golf and good luck with whatever you do.

dozer11

IMO change your grip or you're drawing dead on any sort of decent improvement. It's the single most important fundamental in swinging the club. The reason you don't hold it like a hurl is because a proper golf grip allows the club to hinge properly at the top of the back swing which enables an on plane swing path and consistent ball striking. You may have heard it all before but if you wanna go burn a load of money on pointless lessons be my guest.

ridonkulous

Try playing as a lefty (or rightly) and see how that feels. If you have a cack handed grip then swinging the other way will mean your grip is fine.

GreeBo

onlyfinewine wrote: »

As to the correct grip. who is to say which hand has to be at the top of the grip? hurling would generally give you a different answer as the top hand tends to be the right hand for a right handed player.

Not so long ago a golfer using the left hand low in putting would have been derided, but it is now accepted and even promoted as keeping the shoulders level during the stroke, and avoiding flipping and left wrist breakdown in the follow through.

Well a hurling swing is trying to do something very different than a golf swing...you might also argue that a tennis grip is just as viable.


Putting is a totally different swing again so has different grip requirements.

padzer

Albundy30 wrote: »

Anyone know of a pro in Ireland who gives lessons to cack handed golfers?
I am really comfortable with my grip and just want to improve as much as possible. Not looking to switch to the "correct" grip so save the speeches as i have heard them all before haha

I wouldnt mind knowing the answer to your query. As a fellow cack-hander, Ive seen deals for lessons but I just assume when i walk in the first thing hes going to say is change the grip. Ive tried the "proper" grip up the range and it just feels wrong. Be nice to get a few pointers off a pro.

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

Well a hurling swing is trying to do something very different than a golf swing...you might also argue that a tennis grip is just as viable.


Putting is a totally different swing again so has different grip requirements.

As I said they are both stick and ball games, but obviously a hurling stroke is designed to hit the ball quickly and from either side, the grip upper hand is not normally changed for either left or right handed swings. You will not have time as in golf to tee it up and take a few unhurried practice swings.

In regard to tennis, a two handed ground stroke can be quite similar to the action of swinging a golf club except that it concentrates more on a change of swing path to create a different spin effect whereas golf clubs are designed to produce different shots from different clubs while swinging them relatively the same.

I'm not sure what point you are making when you refer to the putting stroke needing different grip requirements, perhaps you might explain to us what you have in mind? You did not address my comment as to the change of which hand is uppermost while putting.

GreeBo

onlyfinewine wrote: »

As I said they are both stick and ball games, but obviously a hurling stroke is designed to hit the ball quickly and from either side, the grip upper hand is not normally changed for either left or right handed swings. You will not have time as in golf to tee it up and take a few unhurried practice swings.

unihoc is also a stick and ball game....I dont think it has any relevance to whether or not a cackhanded golf grip is advisable though.
Same goes for practice swings, I'm not sure of the relevance.
In golf you hit down on the ball, Im not sure of another stick and ball sport where this is a requirement.

onlyfinewine wrote: »

In regard to tennis, a two handed ground stroke can be quite similar to the action of swinging a golf club except that it concentrates more on a change of swing path to create a different spin effect whereas golf clubs are designed to produce different shots from different clubs while swinging them relatively the same.
Swing path in golf produces 80% of the spin on the ball. Also each club naturally has a different swing path as they are different lengths and so you stand different distances from the ball.

onlyfinewine wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are making when you refer to the putting stroke needing different grip requirements, perhaps you might explain to us what you have in mind? You did not address my comment as to the change of which hand is uppermost while putting.

Effectively putting is a different sport than a full golf swing. You are not worrying about lag or cocking your wrists, you are rocking your shoulders.
Some people switch hands when putting to level their shoulders and/or remove some wrist break from their swing. Again, I dont see putting grip as having any relevance to the grip used for a full swing.

The main issue I see with using an unorthodox grip (or swing) is that you are going to have problems troubleshooting issues unless you happen to find a pro who knows how to fix your issues without changing your fundamentals to an orthodox version.

onlyfinewine

unihoc is also a stick and ball game...

I had never heard of unihoc before, but having looked it up I find that it is played with a puck? So how does that make it a stick and ball game?

The practice swing analogy was to compare the time you have to react to a hurling ball traveling fast and you have to hit it before you get "hooked" whereas with the golf swing where the ball is teed up and waits to be hit so you have time to decide exactly how you want to hit it. So hurling tends to create a quick short wristy swing and golf a full swing with weight transfer and a full wind up of the body.

Swing path in golf produces 80% of the spin on the ball. Also each club naturally has a different swing path as they are different lengths and so you stand different distances from the ball.

Somehow your quote of my post includes your answer? I never said that 80 per cent of the spin comes from the swing path because it doesn't. It comes from the angle of the face relative to the swing path, which is quite a different thing. There are two components to the spin, back-spin and side-spin and the side-spin is rarely more than 20 per cent of the back-spin.

Also each club naturally has a different swing path as they are different lengths and so you stand different distances from the ball.

How is that much different to what I wrote which was "whereas golf clubs are designed to produce different shots from different clubs while swinging them relatively the same."

In relation to coaching cack-handed players I would go back to my first post and say that there are many good cack-handed players who seem to manage fine as they are, but having said that I believe that the same principles apply when coaching as in you should still swing relatively the same. The ball won't know which end of the stick you are holding!

GreeBo

onlyfinewine wrote: »

The practice swing analogy was to compare the time you have to react to a hurling ball traveling fast and you have to hit it before you get "hooked" whereas with the golf swing where the ball is teed up and waits to be hit so you have time to decide exactly how you want to hit it. So hurling tends to create a quick short wristy swing and golf a full swing with weight transfer and a full wind up of the body.

Im still not sure how this is relevant to the discussion?

onlyfinewine wrote: »

Somehow your quote of my post includes your answer? I never said that 80 per cent of the spin comes from the swing path because it doesn't. It comes from the angle of the face relative to the swing path, which is quite a different thing. There are two components to the spin, back-spin and side-spin and the side-spin is rarely more than 20 per cent of the back-spin.

A ball starts 80% in the direction that is perpendicular to the clubface, irrespective of the swing path. At most swing path accounts for 20% of the initial direction.

A golf ball only has back-spin. The axis of this spin is not always perpendicular to the direction the ball is travelling in. This causes the ball to move in the air.

Again I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion.

onlyfinewine wrote: »

In relation to coaching cack-handed players I would go back to my first post and say that there are many good cack-handed players who seem to manage fine as they are, but having said that I believe that the same principles apply when coaching as in you should still swing relatively the same.

There are far more players how are not cack-handed. If you are trying to use a couple of outliers to prove your point then I think you will fail.

onlyfinewine wrote: »

The ball won't know which end of the stick you are holding!

Of course the ball doesnt know, but the person trying to address a swing fault does. If they cannot map the fix to your (relatively) unique swing then you are not going to get very far with your lessons.

onlyfinewine

Oh Greebo, you didn't have herrings for breakfast of the red variety, did you? So we can take it that unihoc is not a stick and ball game?

Swing path in golf produces 80% of the spin on the ball. Also each club naturally has a different swing path as they are different lengths and so you stand different distances from the ball.

That was what you said in one post and the following is what you said in another. They can't both be right! Pick one.

A ball starts 80% in the direction that is perpendicular to the clubface, irrespective of the swing path. At most swing path accounts for 20% of the initial direction.

GreeBo

sigh.
unihoc is also played with a ball, google it.
it has as much to do with this conversation as any other sport.
that was exactly my point, its a post about the golf grip not hurling.
those two posts are about different topics ; spin and direction.

thanks for ignoring the point about getting lessons, which is the point of this thread.

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

sigh.
unihoc is also played with a ball, google it.
it has as much to do with this conversation as any other sport.
that was exactly my point, its a post about the golf grip not hurling.
those two posts are about different topics ; spin and direction.

thanks for ignoring the point about getting lessons, which is the point of this thread.

I admit to not having seen or heard of unihoc before you posted and I think I will bow to your brilliance on the subject. I certainly can't add to the thread in this regard.

Thanks for ignoring the point about getting lessons, which is the point of this thread.

That reads as sarcastic to me, but I think you are missing the point about the grip and the poster who said that he would not change from the cack-handed grip. What I said was supportive of his desire to improve and I did cover the getting of lessons and selecting a pro in my post . Try re-reading it and you will find the subject well covered, as follows.

There is no need to feel you are different, but a good teaching pro should be able to check your alignment, posture, aim and set up despite the unorthodox grip and progress from there.
As to the correct grip. who is to say which hand has to be at the top of the grip?
I would suggest you talk to a pro and see how you feel about his attitude to your grip and go with one that you are comfortable with.
Either was it's nice to hear from someone who genuinely wants to improve their golf and good luck with whatever you do.

By the way I did not find any advice posted by you in the thread? only corrections and a comment which was not particularly helpful or positive.

The main issue I see with using an unorthodox grip (or swing) is that you are going to have problems troubleshooting issues unless you happen to find a pro who knows how to fix your issues without changing your fundamentals to an orthodox version.

Whereas my post was again positive as follows.

In relation to coaching cack-handed players I would go back to my first post and say that there are many good cack-handed players who seem to manage fine as they are, but having said that I believe that the same principles apply when coaching as in you should still swing relatively the same. The ball won't know which end of the stick you are holding!

In relation to spin it is usually measured on both the horizontal and vertical axes as back-spin and side-spin and although you can describe it as spinning on an inclined plane how do you reference it? No machine that I have seen measures it in any other way than the horizontal/vertical axis.
Finally swing path does not produce 80 per cent of the spin on a golf ball as you posted, the primary producer of spin is the loft angle of the club face i.e, a driver produces vastly less spin than a short iron because of the loft angle.