How to catch a criminal with data

Qualitymark

The Memphis way http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2012/03/how-catch-criminal-data/1477/

Potential-Monke

That would be great to have. Except there is still a large percentage of members not computer literate. And, AGS is scared of technology, we still record interviews on video tapes!

Reading the article, i can see how useful it would be, and would be nothing but beneficial, but the background work would be immense. It would be great to put this in place with the intentions of having a good working system in 5-10 years.

Someday maybe, but the author of that article mentions that the police in Memphis have PDA's which allow remote access to their criminal database. We are so very very far away from that. ANPR is a good start, but it's Ireland, so anything like that is years and years away.

kub

I am not at all surprised that AGS still videotape interviews. I wonder has this more to do with law rather than technology or being technically competent.
Not so long ago I downloaded a copy of an assault on a CCTV system from a Digital Video Recorder to a DVD Disc. As this was deemed a different media I had to sit in the local Garda station, while an unlucky detective wrote out that statement for me to sign.

I heard of a stabbing outside some night club in Manchester, it was caught on CCTV. The Police seized the CCTV recorder and did not give it back until the actual court proceedings were finalised, that was 2 years later.

Qualitymark

Potential-Monke wrote: »

That would be great to have. Except there is still a large percentage of members not computer literate.

I remember - perhaps six years ago, perhaps eight - trying to persuade a friend, a very senior civil servant - of the great use of computers. He was not interested; secretaries did the typing, they could use the computers.

A few years later, virtually every senior executive in the country uses computers with ease and fluency.

It'll be the same with the Gardaí.

kub

kub wrote: »

I am not at all surprised that AGS still videotape interviews. I wonder has this more to do with law rather than technology or being technically competent.

It has been amended to allow DVD's to be used. But then you have the cost of converting all the recorders around the country.

pah

Technology could do wonders for this job. Aside from the financial problems you really need a management willing to embrace it. Unfortunately the IT generation are a long way from the higher ranks right now. Realistically though it has to be mostly about the cost of things.

Qualitymark

pah wrote: »

Technology could do wonders for this job. Aside from the financial problems you really need a management willing to embrace it. Unfortunately the IT generation are a long way from the higher ranks right now. Realistically though it has to be mostly about the cost of things.

Going on the Memphis story, it's a lot cheaper to use technology well. I mean, imagine the number of gardaí you'd have needed to go around questioning people and filling in forms - whereas using the computers, *bingo!* the case was solved in minutes.

Locust

kub wrote: »

...I wonder has this more to do with law rather than technology or being technically competent.
Not so long ago I downloaded a copy of an assault on a CCTV system from a Digital Video Recorder to a DVD Disc. As this was deemed a different media I had to sit in the local Garda station, while an unlucky detective wrote out that statement for me to sign.

I heard of a stabbing outside some night club in Manchester, it was caught on CCTV. The Police seized the CCTV recorder and did not give it back until the actual court proceedings were finalised, that was 2 years later.

Stuff will always have to be written down, interviews etc... unless legislation (the caution) changes. DVD is waiting i'm say its just a cost issue with the budget restraints at the minute?

I burn off CCTV onto discs CD's / DVD's every week but i still have to do out statements as part of the chain of evidence for it to be admissible in court. That goes with everything. Most of police work is paper. We could seize whole hard drives etc... and sometimes that happens but its not really fair on local businesses to be doing that every weekend when someone is glassed by a bottle outside mcdonalds. The volume of incidents makes that impractical.

Qualitymark

Yup. But that kidnapped child case: one, two or three sets of documents, not 103 sets of forms about questioning that's gone nowhere - and the kid found safe and returned home within minutes.

kub

Locust wrote: »

Stuff will always have to be written down, interviews etc... unless legislation (the caution) changes. DVD is waiting i'm say its just a cost issue with the budget restraints at the minute?

I burn off CCTV onto discs CD's / DVD's every week but i still have to do out statements as part of the chain of evidence for it to be admissible in court. That goes with everything. Most of police work is paper. We could seize whole hard drives etc... and sometimes that happens but its not really fair on local businesses to be doing that every weekend when someone is glassed by a bottle outside mcdonalds. The volume of incidents makes that impractical.

You are correct, legislation will have to be changed and updated. I won't hold my breath on that one though considering that certain members of the legal world still insist on wearing wigs from 2 centuries ago, its no wonder paper is still king.
Just on the CCTV side of things, technically speaking it is possible to remotely download recorded images. Just imagine the hassle and time this would save AGS if it was used.
For example, an intruder alarm activates at a local shop, the Gardai in the local control room, click a mouse, enter a password and there in front of them are live pictures from the shop, so if there is a burglary in progress, the lads know what they are dealing with before they get there.
Or that poor guy who was stabbed outside that local Mc Donalds last night, no problem, the detective just has to insert a DVD into his computer and connect to the DVR in McDonalds and download the incident. Not to mention the possibilities that are there for Gardai on the beat with iphones.

The technology is there, just a matter of using it

Qualitymark

kub wrote: »

The technology is there, just a matter of using it

Unfortunately, the change will probably come about through some hideous crime that is/could have been solved with technology.

For example, an intruder alarm activates at a local shop, the Gardai in the local control room, click a mouse, enter a password and there in front of them are live pictures from the shop, so if there is a burglary in progress, the lads know what they are dealing with before they get there.
Or that poor guy who was stabbed outside that local Mc Donalds last night, no problem, the detective just has to insert a DVD into his computer and connect to the DVR in McDonalds and download the incident. Not to mention the possibilities that are there for Gardai on the beat with iphones.

Since the private sector is already using these technologies, for the Gardaí not to have them risks the Gardaí being replaced by private policing.

Potential-Monke

I have seen and used remote access CCTV, but there is one major problem in that. Nearly every premises would have to upgrade their systems. And businesses are not going to spend money on the possibility that it may be needed. The people who work in the shops will always want a system like this, but those who run the shop just want to save money.

Also, you then have the possibility of criminals remotely accessing the CCTV too, and over time having an idea of who works when, when would be the best time to break in, where exactly the best loot is, etc. That's the problem with remote access, anyone with enough tech know-how can hack it.

I would be happy if all shops upgraded to a standard system with decent quality (not 1fps, or worse!). I'm not looking for 1080p here, but quality enough that you can actually see the person. I would also be happy enough for people to have more than 1 camera in their premises, not just one at the door.

Locust

I suppose its getting a bit big brother, when - say the Gardai could 'click' into any premises - live feed etc... i understand that is possible with technology (e.g. netwatch) but would the public or business owners support big brother watching? Grand for public areas, thats there already, but live feed into premises? I know plenty wouldn't like that. I suppose its a bit like London with CCTV covering every square foot of the place...

I sat in on a recent court case were live cctv footage used at an incident was inadmissible as evidence something to do with the data later corrupted and the chain of evidence, i didn't catch the reasons given.

I suppose there is not doubt technology is getting better and can only aid police work - CCTV is coming down in price. Stuff like facial recognition and movement sensors on premises etc... Quality/resolution is improving and I believe the next big thing i'm told is enhanced camera resolution, like CSI/Hollywood where they can literally take a seemly small grainy segment and blow it up full screen crystal clear.

Now that would greatly aid investigative work as most footage unless the incident happens directly in front of the camera and close up/well lit - is quite frankly, crap.

Bottom line there is no doubt technology is a great help, like the original article, but it has a tendency to take away from good old fashioned policing skills.