BMW Z4 Price increase

manor

I enquired last April about a 2005 BMW Z4 3.0 in April and was quoted 9,000 euro. I am now in a position to buy it and rang up last week and it is now 9,500????

The dealer now has it on Done Deal for 9,500. Have the prices of second hand cars gone up that much?

With the summer over, should it reduce in price?

GavMan

Looks like the dealer just trying to milk a few extra bob. If you're happy to pay 9k then stay firm. He's unlikely to shift a 3lt petrol fast in this climate.

dahamsta

Roll up to his door with €8.5k in cash. Keep €500 in your pocket if you really want the car. If he won't take it, I'm sure there's others out there.

Bigus

manor wrote: »

I enquired last April about a 2005 BMW Z4 3.0 in April and was quoted 9,000 euro. I am now in a position to buy it and rang up last week and it is now 9,500????

The dealer now has it on Done Deal for 9,500. Have the prices of second hand cars gone up that much?

With the summer over, should it reduce in price?

Yeah but what's it worth sterling ,? on autotrader in the uk, this is his angle I'd say, huge amount of this stuff being exported

so this is your competition and know what you are up against, before you lose it,

Supergurrier

Bigus wrote: »

Yeah but what's it worth sterling ,? on autotrader in the uk, this is his angle I'd say, huge amount of this stuff being exported

so this is your competition and know what you are up against, before you lose it,

Feck that don't give in, as said arrive there with cash to make it clear you are not a timewaster and he will soon come around

Bigus

Supergurrier wrote: »

Feck that don't give in, as said arrive there with cash to make it clear you are not a timewaster and he will soon come around

I don't disagree with you but just so the op knows what he's up against and not appear too smart, and annoy the dealer rather than getting a good deal.

Bebo stunnah

manor wrote: »

Have the prices of second hand cars gone up that much?

The car is only worth the amount your willing to pay for it, by the sounds of it, GavMan is spot on, he's just trying to milk more money out of it. You seemed ok with paying 9k for it, so you could always start with an offer a bit lower and end up meeting at your price.
However, if it was myself, I'd have 8k with me and offer him that, I wouldn't budge on the price either, the car's been for sale for 6 months.

colm_mcm

He might have spent money on it in the meantime

HellFireClub

Can't get over the amount of folks on this thread who are advocating breaking the trade sellers balls on price. The same people would be absolutely up in arms if they "forced" the dealer to sell the car for 8k, yet went back a month later to fund that the business had ceased trading!

Why do businesses cease trading?!? Because customers think they can use "cash" to push a dealer to sell a car, stand over it for 6-12 months, then when it's out of warranty, still get it fixed for free on a "goodwill" basis, customers want all this, while seeing the dealer make €200 on their original transaction!!!

Would you go into book a holiday and start this kind of crap with the agent? Would you go into a pub and start haggling with the barman?!?

If you want your dealer to be able to stand over your car, he has to make money off you in the first place!

Ardennes1944

Every new car my parents have bought the dealer wasnt that hard to haggle down. I'm sure they have their ends met. Dealers were forced to closed mostly due to their bosses forcing them to spend ridiculous money on brand new showrooms IMO

colm_mcm

HellFireClub wrote: »

Can't get over the amount of folks on this thread who are advocating breaking the trade sellers balls on price. The same people would be absolutely up in arms if they "forced" the dealer to sell the car for 8k, yet went back a month later to fund that the business had ceased trading!

Why do businesses cease trading?!? Because customers think they can use "cash" to push a dealer to sell a car, stand over it for 6-12 months, then when it's out of warranty, still get it fixed for free on a "goodwill" basis, customers want all this, while seeing the dealer make €200 on their original transaction!!!

Would you go into book a holiday and start this kind of crap with the agent? Would you go into a pub and start haggling with the barman?!?

If you want your dealer to be able to stand over your car, he has to make money off you in the first place!

You'll usually find dealers that go out of business have a good bit of old stock costing them money

HellFireClub

HellFireClub wrote: »

Can't get over the amount of folks on this thread who are advocating breaking the trade sellers balls on price.................

I'm sure the dealer can look after his balls, he won't be doing himself and given it's a 2005 Z4 I'd be fairly sure that someone got a less than attractive trade in price or there was plenty of fat in the price of what they drove off in

He'll most likely enjoy the haggle and if the OP wants the car I'm sure there's a middle ground that the dealer might be gotten to

JCDUB

HellFireClub wrote: »

Can't get over the amount of folks on this thread who are advocating breaking the trade sellers balls on price. The same people would be absolutely up in arms if they "forced" the dealer to sell the car for 8k, yet went back a month later to fund that the business had ceased trading!

Why do businesses cease trading?!? Because customers think they can use "cash" to push a dealer to sell a car, stand over it for 6-12 months, then when it's out of warranty, still get it fixed for free on a "goodwill" basis, customers want all this, while seeing the dealer make €200 on their original transaction!!!

Would you go into book a holiday and start this kind of crap with the agent? Would you go into a pub and start haggling with the barman?!?

If you want your dealer to be able to stand over your car, he has to make money off you in the first place!

Jaysus, nobody's forcing the dealer to sell him the car. The dealer's a big boy, he knows what it's worth to him, if he wants to sell it he will.

Why would you not try your luck? It's a buyer's market, especially for a 3 litre petrol 7yo sports car.

dahamsta

HellFireClub wrote: »

Would you go into book a holiday and start this kind of crap with the agent?

Yes. Anyone that /doesn't/ haggle over medium to large amounts is either chicken or thick. Especially in this day and age. If the sellers can't say no, they deserve to go bust.

GavMan

HellFireClub wrote: »

Would you go into book a holiday and start this kind of crap with the agent?

I would actually, yes

HellFireClub

Sorry lads, anyone "rolling up to" a dealer with 8k trying to buy a car priced at 9.5k, that's just laughable. I've been in the motor industry 20 years and I've never in my life witnessed anything like the absolute & utter horse**** that's going on these days in relation to price.

Anan1

HellFireClub wrote: »

Sorry lads, anyone "rolling up to" a dealer with 8k trying to buy a car priced at 9.5k, that's just laughable. I've been in the motor industry 20 years and I've never in my life witnessed anything like the absolute & utter horse**** that's going on these days in relation to price.

You sound as though you think the customer owes you a living. The customer owes you nothing, and any car is only worth what someone is prepared to pay.

colm_mcm

HellFireClub wrote: »

Sorry lads, anyone "rolling up to" a dealer with 8k trying to buy a car priced at 9.5k, that's just laughable. I've been in the motor industry 20 years and I've never in my life witnessed anything like the absolute & utter horse**** that's going on these days in relation to price.

You've never seen someone get €1500 off a car in stock for 6 months?
Have you ever made a loss on a car?

GavMan

colm_mcm wrote: »

You've never seen someone get €1500 off a car in stock for 6 months?
Have you ever made a loss on a car?

Not in 20 years apparently.

The chap is a spoofer. Pay no heed.

In this day and age, if anyone has 8k in their hand for a 3lt petrol car thats been taking up space for 6 months, YOU TAKE IT FAST

Bebo stunnah

HellFireClub wrote: »

Can't get over the amount of folks on this thread who are advocating breaking the trade sellers balls on price. The same people would be absolutely up in arms if they "forced" the dealer to sell the car for 8k, yet went back a month later to fund that the business had ceased trading!

In the not too distant past a relative of mine went in to a showroom with his Toyota Avensis, which had 100k km, which was 60-70% motorway driving. The dealer said his car was worth €1,400, so he asked about the same car, same year with 20k km less, the dealer was lookin for €5,300 for the car in the show room which included his own car as a trade in, the dealers response was 'i have to make a living too'. Don't get me wrong, but they can start living like everyone else, they're dreaming if they can still trade like they were back 4 years ago!

Anyways, this thread seems to be going slightly off topic..

HellFireClub

Anan1 wrote: »

You sound as though you think the customer owes you a living. The customer owes you nothing, and any car is only worth what
someone is prepared to pay.

Rubbish

GavMan wrote: »

Not in 20 years apparently.

The chap is a spoofer. Pay no heed.

In this day and age, if anyone has 8k in their hand for a 3lt petrol car thats been taking up space for 6 months, YOU TAKE IT FAST

Can you defend that argument though, apart from trying to fob me off?!? NO!!!

I don't sell cars, it's not the end of the industry that I work in, but I have a lot of trade clients who sell cars and the feedback I'm getting is consistent and it's that the quality and general purchasing attitude of customers has deteriorated unbelievably.

There is this gathering consensus out there now that because the economy is completely f*cked, that vulture type buyers now think that they can catch out a trade seller and "roll up" to a place now and demand what they are buying the car for.

Long term businesses cannot operate in this manner, so if you are trying to pull a lad under with a stupid pricing strategy in your head as you walk in the door, hoping that he is sufficiently fúcked to the extent that you can actually dictate the sale price of the vehicle to him with a wad of cash in your hand, then don't be surprised when you have a warranty issue in a few months time and he isn't there anymore!

Alternatively, if you want to get the car for the best price available, then bring yourself down to an auction and see your money go further, but take the risk on the vehicle yourself then!!! Don't try to break someone's balls on price and then have the stupidity to think that you are still on solid ground when it comes to warranty!

listermint

HellFireClub wrote: »

Rubbish



Can you defend that argument though, apart from trying to fob me off?!? NO!!!

I don't sell cars, it's not the end of the industry that I work in, but I have a lot of trade clients who sell cars and the feedback I'm getting is consistent and it's that the quality and general purchasing attitude of customers has deteriorated unbelievably.

There is this gathering consensus out there now that because the economy is completely f*cked, that vulture type buyers now think that they can catch out a trade seller and "roll up" to a place now and demand what they are buying the car for.

Long term businesses cannot operate in this manner, so if you are trying to pull a lad under with a stupid pricing strategy in your head as you walk in the door, hoping that he is sufficiently fúcked to the extent that you can actually dictate the sale price of the vehicle to him with a wad of cash in your hand, then don't be surprised when you have a warranty issue in a few months time and he isn't there anymore!

Alternatively, if you want to get the car for the best price available, then bring yourself down to an auction and see your money go further, but take the risk on the vehicle yourself then!!! Don't try to break someone's balls on price and then have the stupidity to think that you are still on solid ground when it comes to warranty!

Vulture buyers? Its a 7 year old 3 Lt sports car. Are you speaking about this particular instance or just in general because i dont think 8.5K is totally unreasonable. Id imaging the dealer paid 5-6K for it.

HellFireClub

listermint wrote: »

Vulture buyers? Its a 7 year old 3 Lt sports car. Are you speaking about this particular instance or just in general because i dont think 8.5K is totally unreasonable. Id imaging the dealer paid 5-6K for it.

So you reckon the dealer is making a profit of (9.5K selling price subtract your reckoned averaged purchase price of 5.5K, (6k + 5k/2)), approximately 4K on the transaction, before you account for VAT? :rolleyes:

This is what I'm on about, people thinking that a dealer is making 4k on a car...

Supergurrier

That car will be sitting in the dealers awhile

coolisin

If he walks in through the door with 8.5k cash you'd turn him away hellfire club????
No you would negotiate a price if its not what you want.
It's not vulture buying its the business world in Ireland at the moment, everyone wants value for money, and money off.

If the dealer is loosing money he'll refuse to take it but I doubt the dealer has the final price on the window.

I agree go in chance your arm and find out why the price has gone up face to face if you can.

djimi

HellFireClub wrote: »

Sorry lads, anyone "rolling up to" a dealer with 8k trying to buy a car priced at 9.5k, that's just laughable. I've been in the motor industry 20 years and I've never in my life witnessed anything like the absolute & utter horse**** that's going on these days in relation to price.

Nothing laughable about. The customer can roll up and offer €500 for the car if they want to; its up to the dealer to decide whether or not they want to accept it. If the OP wants to offer €8k for this car and the dealer feels he can get closer to the €9500 asking price then the dealer is free to say no. However, if the car has been sitting there for 6 months with a €9k+ asking price then it is clearly overpriced, and Im sure the dealer knows this. They can take what the car is actually worth now, or they can wait another 6 months in the hope that someone will pay the inflated priced.

Also, if dealers feel that they are being ripped off over prices there is nothing to stop them asking for more. If a car is worth €8k then put a sticker price of €9k on it in the knowledge that it will sell for €8k. You get what you know the car is worth, the customer gets a grand "discount"; everyone is happy.

Everyone wants a bargain, and the motor industry is one which has always been open to haggling in this country. Dealers know this only too well and I have absolutely no doubt that they take it fully into account when pricing cars. No dealer is going to allow themselves to be left the victim after selling a car...

HellFireClub

coolisin wrote: »

If he walks in through the door with 8.5k cash you'd turn him away hellfire club????
No you would negotiate a price if its not what you want.
It's not vulture buying its the business world in Ireland at the moment, everyone wants value for money, and money off.

If the dealer is loosing money he'll refuse to take it but I doubt the dealer has the final price on the window.

I agree go in chance your arm and find out why the price has gone up face to face if you can.

The problem is that it has now gone so far beyond that, to the point where people have long ceased to be realistic when it comes to what they can buy goods for. I get it every day in my business, people pricing original equipment replacement automotive parts off what is available in scrap yards and non OEM quality parts which are in a completely different league when it comes to quality.

People now fail to understand that there is no problem with a price reduction, once you generally understand that you are no longer getting the same bundle that you originally priced, that there is a variation there as well. When it comes to car sales, people expect the car for considerably less than the dealer himself paid for it, then as if that wasn't enough of a discount, they expect the provision of a warranty to be the very same as if they paid the original price!

For example, if you sell an Opel Insignia today, to JUST BUY the replacement parts for a clutch replacement, you are looking at around 1,300 Euro to buy a dual mass flywheel, 2 piece clutch kit & hydraulic clutch concentric slave cylinder! This is before you take off a wheelnut to work on the car! Exact same figures apply for a Kia Sorrento, Hyundai Trajet, clutch replacement, etc. You'd be lucky to see change out of 2K for a job like this in the event that it comes back as a warranty.

How do you expect a dealer to provide you with a warranty for that kind of work, in the event that he has sold the car to you at a loss???

listermint

HellFireClub wrote: »

The problem is that it has now gone so far beyond that, to the point where people have long ceased to be realistic when it comes to what they can buy goods for. I get it every day in my business, people pricing original equipment replacement automotive parts off what is available in scrap yards and non OEM quality parts which are in a completely different league when it comes to quality.

People now fail to understand that there is no problem with a price reduction, once you generally understand that you are no longer getting the same bundle that you originally priced, that there is a variation there as well. When it comes to car sales, people expect the car for considerably less than the dealer himself paid for it, then as if that wasn't enough of a discount, they expect the provision of a warranty to be the very same as if they paid the original price!

For example, if you sell an Opel Insignia today, to JUST BUY the replacement parts for a clutch replacement, you are looking at around 1,300 Euro to buy a dual mass flywheel, 2 piece clutch kit & hydraulic clutch concentric slave cylinder! This is before you take off a wheelnut to work on the car! Exact same figures apply for a Kia Sorrento, Hyundai Trajet, clutch replacement, etc. You'd be lucky to see change out of 2K for a job like this in the event that it comes back as a warranty.

How do you expect a dealer to provide you with a warranty for that kind of work, in the event that he has sold the car to you at a loss???

Once again what has an opel insignia dual mass fly wheel got to do with this Z4? Do you think 8.5K is an unreasonable offer?

Its not horse trading, hes not offering 7K, 8.5 is a perfectly reasonable real world figure.

HellFireClub

listermint wrote: »

Once again what has an opel insignia dual mass fly wheel got to do with this Z4? Do you think 8.5K is an unreasonable offer?

Its not horse trading, hes not offering 7K, 8.5 is a perfectly reasonable real world figure.

Clearly you don't understand how the trade works. 8.5k is a perfectly reasonable offer, just don't expect a warranty for that price. That sounds grand in theory, however even if you treat the buyer as a trade buyer for the purposes of this transaction and have a clear understanding (in writing), that there is no warranty whatsoever with the car on the basis of a heavily discounted sale price and it being a trade sale, you can still bet your bottom dollar that in the event that the engine goes in the vehicle 3 months later and the repair bill is around the 2k mark for a new engine, that your "trade" customer, will be back looking for his money back, but of course not before he has gotten onto the Consumer Protection Agency, Eddie Hobbs and probably a few other celebrity consumer champions...

djimi

HellFireClub wrote: »

The problem is that it has now gone so far beyond that, to the point where people have long ceased to be realistic when it comes to what they can buy goods for. I get it every day in my business, people pricing original equipment replacement automotive parts off what is available in scrap yards and non OEM quality parts which are in a completely different league when it comes to quality.

Its up to you to tell people to get lost if they arent prepared to pay the asking price. If you are selling premium goods (which OEM parts are in comparison to non-OEM/scrap yard parts) then you have to be prepared for people to complain that they are too expensive. Just like a car dealer has to be prepared for those idiots who complain because they saw a car on Donedeal for €5k (Irish spec rubbish in a dreadful state of repair) and are now wondering why a good spec model in good nick with a full service history is selling for €7500 from the dealer. Part of selling, in any industry, is to know when to walk away, and I would imagine when it comes to selling cars there are a lot of people that you need to be prepared to walk away from...

HellFireClub wrote: »

People now fail to understand that there is no problem with a price reduction, once you generally understand that you are no longer getting the same bundle that you originally priced, that there is a variation there as well. When it comes to car sales, people expect the car for considerably less than the dealer himself paid for it, then as if that wasn't enough of a discount, they expect the provision of a warranty to be the very same as if they paid the original price!

The car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If that price does not allow for the dealer to make a profit off selling it then he paid too much for it in the first place. That is the bottom line. The dealer should know how much they can afford to pay for a car so that they can sell it on at a profit (taking work that may need to be done to it, warranty etc into account), and if they cannot get the asking price for the car when they go to sell it then they got their calculations wrong; either when buying the car or pricing it to sell on. They should know what a car will sell for.

djimi

HellFireClub wrote: »

Clearly you don't understand how the trade works. 8.5k is a perfectly reasonable offer, just don't expect a warranty for that price.

Just out of curiosity, do you not think that deales build some haggling room into the price when selling a car? Do you not think that they take things like warranty into account when coming up with the price of the car? You can be damn sure that if a car is advertised for €9500 then the dealer has come to that sticker price knowing that they will get haggled down that and they will have a bottom figure that they can go to in order to make an acceptable profit.

I dont know how much the dealer paid for this car but lets say for arguements sake he took it for €7000 as part of a trade in. If he makes €8500 on it then thats a decent profit. If someone went up to him and their first offer was €8000 then I think the dealer could easily get them to over €8500 and they would both still feel that they got what they wanted from the transaction.

HellFireClub

djimi wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, do you not think that deales build some haggling room into the price when selling a car? Do you not think that they take things like warranty into account when coming up with the price of the car? You can be damn sure that if a car is advertised for €9500 then the dealer has come to that sticker price knowing that they will get haggled down that and they will have a bottom figure that they can go to in order to make an acceptable profit.

I dont know how much the dealer paid for this car but lets say for arguements sake he took it for €7000 as part of a trade in. If he makes €8500 on it then thats a decent profit. If someone went up to him and their first offer was €8000 then I think the dealer could easily get them to over €8500 and they would both still feel that they got what they wanted from the transaction.

Haggle away, but walking into a showroom with your big swinging dick, as has been suggested on this thread, and throwing 8k on the table in the hope that you've run into a guy with a cash flow problem, (and EVERY business these days in the services sector is having serious cash flow problems), is extremely unfair I think on professional sellers who have to keep their doors open, in the event that you might come back with a warranty like...

The margin simply isn't in it, it's that simple in my opinion...

djimi

HellFireClub wrote: »

Haggle away, but walking into a showroom with your big swinging dick, as has been suggested on this thread, and throwing 8k on the table in the hope that you've run into a guy with a cash flow problem, (and EVERY business these days in the services sector is having serious cash flow problems), is extremely unfair I think on professional sellers who have to keep their doors open, in the event that you might come back with a warranty like...

The margin simply isn't in it, it's that simple in my opinion...

Fair doesnt come into its; its a business transaction. Both parties are looking to get the most out of it that they can. If the margin isnt in the sale then the dealer is free to walk away, just like if the price is too high the buyer is free to walk away.

The dealers are well able to look after themselves, and are well able to look after their margins. Im sure every once in a while they will get stung on a deal, it happens in all lines of business, but if it is something that is happening on a regular basis such that it is threatening their business then they need to take a look at themselves and ask themselves why they cant make their margins.

Mycroft H

HellFireClub wrote: »

Haggle away, but walking into a showroom with your big swinging dick, as has been suggested on this thread, and throwing 8k on the table in the hope that you've run into a guy with a cash flow problem, (and EVERY business these days in the services sector is having serious cash flow problems), is extremely unfair I think on professional sellers who have to keep their doors open, in the event that you might come back with a warranty like...

The margin simply isn't in it, it's that simple in my opinion...

This is hilarious, your a dealer's dream.

' you'll pay list price? Excellent, come right this way sir... '

HellFireClub

BX 19 wrote: »

This is hilarious, your a dealer's dream.

' you'll pay list price? Excellent, come right this way sir... '

I'm not saying don't haggle. Haggle away, but trying to go under the fúcking floor on price and buy something for considerably less than the person selling it has bought it for, that's not haggling, that's just wasting someone's time and making a tít out of yourself in the process.

Mycroft H

HellFireClub wrote: »

BX 19 wrote: »

This is hilarious, your a dealer's dream.

' you'll pay list price? Excellent, come right this way sir... '

I'm not saying don't haggle. Haggle away, but trying to go under the fúcking floor on price and buy something for considerably less than the person selling it has bought it for, that's not haggling, that's just wasting someone's time and making a tít out of yourself in the process.

The person who buys for less then it was bought for isn't the fool. The fool is the person who sold it for that price

Anan1

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm not saying don't haggle. Haggle away, but trying to go under the fúcking floor on price and buy something for considerably less than the person selling it has bought it for, that's not haggling, that's just wasting someone's time and making a tít out of yourself in the process.

You're still completely missing the point. The customer doesn't care how much you paid for it, and nor should they. It's worth what the customer will offer, and if you paid too much then that's your problem.

djimi

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm not saying don't haggle. Haggle away, but trying to go under the fúcking floor on price and buy something for considerably less than the person selling it has bought it for, that's not haggling, that's just wasting someone's time and making a tít out of yourself in the process.

How does the customer know how much the dealer bought it for?

Of course if your offer is ridiculous then youre more than likely wasting both parties time, but offering €8000 for a car that has a sticker price of €9500 (and is most likely well overpriced at that) is not ridiculous. Okay the customer probably wont get the car for the €8000 they offered, but its a good platformt o start negotiations from in my opinion. After that its up to the dealer to decide how much he needs to take for the car.

Im going to be honest also; if I saw something like a 7 year old Z4 sitting on a forecourt for 6 months then chances are Id offer a lot less than the sticker price also; a car like that the dealer is probably delighted to get any offer for and would most likely be very willing to take a hit on the asking price just to get it off the forecourt.

Stallingrad

HellFireClub wrote: »

Haggle away, but trying to go under the fúcking floor on price and buy something for considerably less than the person selling it has bought it for, that's not haggling, that's just wasting someone's time and making a tít out of yourself in the process.

How on earth do you know? An offer is an offer, there are any number of reasons why the seller may jump at the €8000 offer, which is not a million miles away from the asking price. Buyers and sellers should park their pride and be willing to deal, if you don't ask you don't get.

Bebo stunnah

To be honest wit ya HellFireClub, you're making great points on behalf of the dealer, but Ireland has moved on from purchasing cars from dealers nowadays. They're too expensive and frankly not worth it. They're only good for buying brand new cars from. In arguement with your points, depreciation is a natural thing with every car, and for a car to go up on price over the course of 6 months is ridiculous, no matter what was doe with it! It's not like walking into a shop, it never was, the whole business is run on haggling each other until both are happy.

This guys deal could have been 9.5k with nothing extra. Then by offering 8k, the dealer tells him he cant do it.. offers higher, etc etc, the deal ends at 9.2k. The buyer gets a year or 2 warranty and maybe a half tank of fuel, which, if the car was 'serviced' in those 6 months, it shouldn't need to use the warranty. Otherwise the whole deal just showed no reason for the car to be worth an extra half grand!

In my own experience I went to a dealership to check out a car, he wanted 4.8k for it, i offered 4.2k, he refused straight out, so i said 4.5, and asked for it to be put through the NCT, was 1 month left, he said no, was holding out for the full price with no NCT. So I took my custom elsewhere. I ended up getting it for more than a grand less than what he was looking, privately, and it was the price I was offered. It just shows that people are tired for paying over the price for things, especially if what they're 'paying extra for' has to be a battle when it's being used. How many times have I heard of people paying for a warranty to be told "It's not covered under that", or if it is, something extra was found wrong...

Most people have found that it's cheaper to buy private, nothing extra, face value and pay for extra when it needs be. There's a reason they've earned themselves the name 'Stealerships'.

GavMan

Are you sure you're not the seller, HellFire?

Oh, and this 'Trade Sale' waffle you're on about is complete horse manure and doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

You can't simply write down that the seller understands there is no warranty, etc etc. You can't contract for something that is not legal in itself.

Also, how can you advocate the buyers right to haggle and then castigate the consumer for trying to get the best price they can?

If the dealer doesn't like it, then he can hold it on the lot for another 6 months, hoping a UK exporter or someone will pay the sticker price.

Also, I find it offensive that you felt the need to explain how a dealer makes profit based on a cost price...

HellFireClub

GavMan wrote: »

Are you sure you're not the seller, HellFire?

Oh, and this 'Trade Sale' waffle you're on about is complete horse manure and doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

You can't simply write down that the seller understands there is no warranty, etc etc. You can't contract for something that is not legal in itself.

Also, how can you advocate the buyers right to haggle and then castigate the consumer for trying to get the best price they can?

If the dealer doesn't like it, then he can hold it on the lot for another 6 months, hoping a UK exporter or someone will pay the sticker price.

Also, I find it offensive that you felt the need to explain how a dealer makes profit based on a cost price...

I find it offensive that I'm debating this with a guy who obviously isn't in the trade, doesn't know what he is talking about and claims that there is no such thing as a trade sale by a dealer to a mechanic or trade buyer, under which documentation is signed that provides for the sale of the car as seen, without any warranty whatsoever, express or implied.

Bebo stunnah

HellFireClub wrote: »

I find it offensive that I'm debating this with a guy who obviously isn't in the trade

In the car trade? I certainly hope you're not a dealer, surely they should be of the mind that everyone is a potential buyer. Anybody can sell a car...

Supergurrier

If you are a salesman in the car trade i can't see you making much commission

In some trades haggling is expected, for instance i sell furniture/beds/mattresses/carpet/all types of flooring and 5-10% is always there for haggling and depending on the order sometimes up to 20%, car's aren't as clean cut but i can't see any dealership losing a sale on a 5% margin lasting long

HellFireClub

HellFireClub wrote: »

...............

People now fail to understand that there is no problem with a price reduction, once you generally understand that you are no longer getting the same bundle that you originally priced, that there is a variation there as well. When it comes to car sales, people expect the car for considerably less than the dealer himself paid for it, then as if that wasn't enough of a discount, they expect the provision of a warranty to be the very same as if they paid the original price!.....................

HellFireClub wrote: »

Clearly you don't understand how the trade works. 8.5k is a perfectly reasonable offer, just don't expect a warranty for that price. That sounds grand in theory, however even if you treat the buyer as a trade buyer for the purposes of this transaction and have a clear understanding (in writing), that there is no warranty whatsoever with the car on the basis of a heavily discounted sale price and it being a trade sale, you can still bet your bottom dollar that in the event that the engine goes in the vehicle 3 months later and the repair bill is around the 2k mark for a new engine, that your "trade" customer, will be back looking for his money back, but of course not before he has gotten onto the Consumer Protection Agency, Eddie Hobbs and probably a few other celebrity consumer champions...

HellFireClub wrote: »

I find it offensive that I'm debating this with a guy who obviously isn't in the trade, doesn't know what he is talking about and claims that there is no such thing as a trade sale by a dealer to a mechanic or trade buyer, under which documentation is signed that provides for the sale of the car as seen, without any warranty whatsoever, express or implied.

Are you seriously trying to claim that you are suggesting a trade customer expects a warranty and they'll get onto consumer protection agency and Eddie Hobbs etc to get it?

Are you actually for f**king real ?

You were clearly suggesting it's fine for Joe Public to get a car cheap off a dealer once it's sold as seen / dealt with as a trade sale, so please don't be making a liar out of yourself and then come out with patronising sh1t saying people who call you on it don't know what they're talking about.

No one claimed there is no such thing as a trade sale, it was pointed out that a garage can't sell trade to Joe Public in a way to avoid giving a warranty. Ask some of your colleagues or contacts in the trade, they'll set you straight hopefully.

GavMan

Looks like RJ beat me to the punch...

djimi

RoverJames wrote: »

No one claimed there is no such thing as a trade sale, it was pointed out that a garage can't sell trade to Joe Public in a way to avoid giving a warranty. Ask some of your colleagues or contacts in the trade, they'll set you straight hopefully.

They can sell a car "sold as seen" to the public cant they? Provided the invoice clearly states it and is signed by the buyer as such.

Its pretty obvious that this does not apply in this case though; noone is going to buy a €9000 Z4 sold as seen...

GavMan

djimi wrote: »

They can sell a car "sold as seen" to the public cant they? Provided the invoice clearly states it and is signed by the buyer as such.

Its pretty obvious that this does not apply in this case though; noone is going to buy a €9000 Z4 sold as seen...

No you can't purport that selling a car to a consumer is a trade sale. It is a sale governed by consumer legislation.

If you are a proper registered business selling to a consumer, you can not simply waive your responsibilities set out under the sale of goods and supply of services act. Nor can the consumer waive theirs. There is no mechanism for such.

Sold as seen is a little trickier but its effectively balderdash.

djimi

GavMan wrote: »

No you can't purport that selling a car to a consumer is a trade sale. It is a sale governed by consumer legislation.

If you are a proper registered business selling to a consumer, you can not simply waive your responsibilities set out under the sale of goods and supply of services act. Nor can the consumer waive theirs. There is no mechanism for such.

Sold as seen is a little trickier but its effectively balderdash.

What if I am buying a car from a dealer that doesnt have a working engine, but I want it for parts or something? Surely in that case if I sign the invoice that I bought the car sold as seen then I cannot come back later on and complain that the car I bought was not fit for purpose or whatever? I thought thats what sold as seen meant; youre not waiving your rights as such, but more acknowledging the state of the car when you bought it.

GavMan

djimi wrote: »

What if I am buying a car from a dealer that doesnt have a working engine, but I want it for parts or something? Surely in that case if I sign the invoice that I bought the car sold as seen then I cannot come back later on and complain that the car I bought was not fit for purpose or whatever? I thought thats what sold as seen meant; youre not waiving your rights as such, but more acknowledging the state of the car when you bought it.

It's more like you can't sell a car to a consumer and give them the understanding that all is well with the car, throw in the old sold as seen line and then the T belt snaps 10mins down the road and tell the buyer tough luck.

That doesn't fly

Obviously in your scenario, you can't comeback and complain about the engine if it was known that it was broken.

This is what I mean by tricky.

djimi

GavMan wrote: »

It's more like you can't sell a car to a consumer and give them the understanding that all is well with the car, throw in the old sold as seen line and then the T belt snaps 10mins down the road and tell the buyer tough luck.

That doesn't fly

Obviously in your scenario, you can't comeback and complain about the engine if it was known that it was broken.

This is what I mean by tricky.

Would sold as seen not have to specify why it is sold as seen? Also the customer would have to agree to it and sign the invoice as such, which noone in their right mind would do if they thought they were getting a sound car.