Freeview Skerries

Mad Benny

My sister lives in Skerries and can pick up Saorview on her new Panasonic LCD TV. It's also sold in the UK as a freeview compatible TV.

They can pick up analogue BBC but can't pick up the digital channels.

Is the digital signal transmitted from different transmitters than the existing analogue one?

Should they be able to pick up a terestrial signal in Skerries for BBC and Channel 4?

Peter Rhea

Digital switchover begins in Northern Ireland on October 10th. The first channels available will be the BBC standard definition ones.

See this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056755770

mrdtv2010

She is likely to be on the Kilkeel relay station and will therefore receive the Freeview-lite service. If the UK aerial is vertically polarised it is Kilkeel, but if it is horizontal it is Divis. Switching times are here:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/northernireland/divis/divis_relaytimes

adox

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

She is likely to be on the Kilkeel relay station and will therefore receive the Freeview-lite service. If the UK aerial is vertically polarised it is Kilkeel, but if it is horizontal it is Divis. Switching times are here:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/northernireland/divis/divis_relaytimes

What is Freeview-Lite and is this what Kilkeel will output on an ongoing basis?

Peter Rhea

'Freeview Lite' is the public service channels (3 muxes). See here for what's available.

The full service with the commercial muxes is shown here.

In NI, only the 3 main transmitters (Divis, Brougher Mtn. & Limavady) will carry the commercial muxes. Reception of Divis is certainly worth looking into in areas currently served by Kilkeel, but you'd lose the convenience of being able to receive UK & Irish broadcasts with 1 aerial & not necessarily gain a reliable service. Time will tell (if anyone bothers trying, that is).

coylemj

adox wrote: »

What is Freeview-Lite and is this what Kilkeel will output on an ongoing basis?

According to the Freeview coverage checker, the Kilkeel transmitter will output BBC1/2/3/4, ITV1 (UTV), ITV2/3, CH4, CH5 & More4.

I used the postcode for a business on the main street in Kilkeel, this is the Freeview coverage checker result.....

http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability/main/display/coverage/BT34+4BH/38/0

In contrast, this is what someone in Belfast will receive from Divis....

http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability/main/display/coverage/BT4+3LP/1/0

SPAWKER

Mad Benny wrote: »

Should they be able to pick up a terestrial signal in Skerries for BBC and Channel 4?

Yes she should be getting the 4 Uk stations crystal clear without a problem.

coylemj

SPAWKER wrote: »

Yes she should be getting the 4 Uk stations crystal clear without a problem.

I think if you read the OP's post...

Mad Benny wrote: »

They can pick up analogue BBC but can't pick up the digital channels.

Is the digital signal transmitted from different transmitters than the existing analogue one?

Should they be able to pick up a terestrial signal in Skerries for BBC and Channel 4?

I think his last question probably relates to the UK digital channels because he already said he can pickup the analogue BBC.

The answer as already stated is that he should try on Oct. 10th when digital switchover starts in NI.

SPAWKER

It probably does but he doesnt mention analogue Ch4 till his last paragraph.

Mr. Rabbit

If Benny's sister is looking for something more than Freeview Lite then she's probably better off going for Freesat, which isn't that much different from full Freeview these days. Only around 5 channels that are on full Freeview but not Freesat.

However, Freesat also has a lot of stations that aren't carried on full Frteeview transmitters so it's pretty much horses for courses.

According to the Freeview coverage checker, the Kilkeel transmitter will output BBC1/2/3/4, ITV1 (UTV), ITV2/3, CH4, CH5 & More4

Along with E4, Channel 4+1 UTV+1, ITV2+1 BBC News, BBC parliament, all the BBC Radio stations including Radio Foyle and Radio Ulster as well as U105, and the 4 HD channels, but not ITV3. All in all about 15 TV stations.

As others have said, better to check after next Wednesday, or have a look to see if her aerial is vertically or horizontally polarised.

coylemj

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Along with E4, Channel 4+1 UTV+1, ITV2+1 BBC News, BBC parliament, all the BBC Radio stations including Radio Foyle and Radio Ulster as well as U105, and the 4 HD channels, but not ITV3. All in all about 15 TV stations.

Kilkeel is not scheduled to transmit E4, UTV+1 or ITV2+1.

And on Oct 24th they will broadcast BBC1 HD, Ch4 HD and BBC HD, I'm not sure which is the fourth HD channel you're referring to.

I already posted this link, try it again. It's the Freeview coverage checker result for a premises on the main street in Kilkeel.......

http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability/main/display/coverage/BT34+4BH/38/0

Peter Rhea

coylemj wrote: »

And on Oct 24th they will broadcast BBC1 HD, Ch4 HD and BBC HD, I'm not sure which is the fourth HD channel you're referring to.

[url=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/234097/222444.jpg[/url]. Linked from this post.

Also, UTV +1 will be on the D3 & 4 mux, so will be transmitted by Kilkeel.

Digifriendly

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

If Benny's sister is looking for something more than Freeview Lite then she's probably better off going for Freesat, which isn't that much different from full Freeview these days. Only around 5 channels that are on full Freeview but not Freesat.

However, Freesat also has a lot of stations that aren't carried on full Frteeview transmitters so it's pretty much horses for courses.



Along with E4, Channel 4+1 UTV+1, ITV2+1 BBC News, BBC parliament, all the BBC Radio stations including Radio Foyle and Radio Ulster as well as U105, and the 4 HD channels, but not ITV3. All in all about 15 TV stations.

As others have said, better to check after next Wednesday, or have a look to see if her aerial is vertically or horizontally polarised.

No ITV4 either and it carries a lot of ITV sport's output.

reslfj

Mad Benny wrote: »

They can pick up analogue BBC but can't pick up the digital channels.

Is the digital signal transmitted from different transmitters than the existing analogue one?

Should they be able to pick up a terestrial signal in Skerries for BBC and Channel 4?

Which UHF channels are BBC1, 2, UTV and C4 received on? Can she receive 'Five' on channel 37 ?.
The answers to these questions will tell, from which TX-site the present analogue signals are broadcast.

The analogue UHF channels from Divis and Kilkeel.
Divis     analogue UHF  31   27   24   21   37
Kilkeel   analogue UHF  39   45   49   42
 
The digital UHF channels from Divis and Kilkeel (post DSO)  
Divis PSB digital  UHF  27   21+  24                 100kW 
Divis COM digital  UHF                 23   26   29   50kW    
Kilkeel   digital  UHF  45   42   39+                400 W

UHF channel 23 26 and 29 are allocated to Kippure or Three Rock at 125kW - but not yet used from these ROI sites (distance 30-35km).

If the Divis signals are not stopped by the mountains just north of Kilkeel, the Divis signals should - after October 10/24 - be very much stronger at Skerries.
Kilkeel (distance 60km) only has an ERP of 400W - 250 times less than Divis (distance 120km).

I think the NImux from Black Mountain (1-2kW) will destroy any PSB-3 (the HD mux) signal from Kilkeel (60km) in Skerries.

Lars

SPAWKER

99% of the aerials in the town are set to Kilkeel using wideband grid aerials with a group B masthead amplifier.

Peter Rhea

Others here have mentioned ghosting (multipath) issues with Divis analogue reception on the east coast (caused by the Mournes, I suppose), but without giving any impression of general signal strength. The multipath shouldn't impair Freeview reception.

There was also the convenience factor of being able to get Clermont Carn & Kilkeel on 1 aerial.

Mr. Rabbit

Kilkeel is not scheduled to transmit E4, UTV+1 or ITV2+1

Yes it is.

All freeview Lite transmitters will broadcast the above (apart from ITV2+1).

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=IJ281180

The only Freeview Lite transmitters that will broadcast ITV 3 are those in the Channel Islands.

I'm not sure which is the fourth HD channel you're referring to.

As already mentioned, UTV HD.

I think the NImux from Black Mountain (1-2kW) will destroy any PSB-3 (the HD mux) signal from Kilkeel (60km) in Skerries.

Surely not if the aerial for Kilkeel is vertically polarised ???????

No ITV4 either and it carries a lot of ITV sport's output.

Available free to air on Feesat (and Freesat from Sky)

coylemj

Peter Rhea wrote: »

UTV +1 will be on the D3 & 4 mux, so will be transmitted by Kilkeel.

Peter Rhea wrote: »

In NI, only the 3 main transmitters (Divis, Brougher Mtn. & Limavady) will carry the commercial muxes.

Aren't those two statements contradictory?

And isn't UK Free TV which people are quoting here an amateur (i.e. unofficial) website?

And if the official Freeview website says that Kilkeel will NOT broadcast UTV+1, would someone please point me to an official UK DTT website which says that it will?

UTV1+1 is not on the core list of channels that every home will receive.

http://www.freeview.co.uk/availability/main/display/coverage/BT34+4BH/38/0

The Cush

coylemj wrote: »

And if the official Freeview website says that Kilkeel will NOT broadcast UTV+1, would someone please point me to an official UK DTT website which says that it will?

UTV1+1 is not on the core list of channels that every home will receive.

According to DMOL (official site) UTV+1 will be on the PSB D3+4 Mux (LCN 33) - http://www.dmol.co.uk/channels/post_switchover

Peter Rhea

The Cush wrote: »

According to DMOL (official site) UTV+1 will be on the PSB D3+4 Mux (LCN 33) - http://www.dmol.co.uk/channels/post_switchover

And E4 too, apart from Wales, where it's on the SDN mux.

Peter Rhea

coylemj wrote: »

. . . And isn't UK Free TV which people are quoting here an amateur (i.e. unofficial) website?

I'm well aware of that fact & cross-check the information, where possible.

Ukfree is handy as it draws information together & presents it all in one place.

Ronnie Raygun

reslfj wrote: »

If the Divis signals are not stopped by the mountains just north of Kilkeel, the Divis signals should - after October 10/24 - be very much stronger at Skerries.
Kilkeel (distance 60km) only has an ERP of 400W - 250 times less than Divis (distance 120km).

And the Divis analogue ERP is 1,000 times that of Kilkeel. I wonder did north Dublin only go for Kilkeel after Clermont Carn came on & they could get both with one aerial, or is Divis really badly impacted by the Mourne mountains?

Mr. Rabbit

UTV1+1 is not on the core list of channels that every home will receive.

http://www.freeview.co.uk/availabili.../BT34+4BH/38/0

UTV+1 will be on channel 33 on all Freeview Lite transmitters across Northern Ireland on the 24th October.

Mr. Rabbit

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I'm well aware of that fact & cross-check the information, where possible.

Ukfree is handy as it draws information together & presents it all in one place.

Yes, indeed Peter, I think their channel line up and technical info etc. is reasonably accurate, although Brian hasn't updated the new HD mux LCNs.

There is no question that UTV+1 will be carried on all Freeview Lite transmitters come the 24th October.

The channel line up for freeview lite transmitters throughout the UK has been known for sometime.

Mr. Rabbit

Aren't those two statements contradictory?

No

And if the official Freeview website says that Kilkeel will NOT broadcast UTV+1, would someone please point me to an official UK DTT website which says that it will?

Then the offical Freeview site does not contain all the information.

mrdtv2010

reslfj wrote: »

Which UHF channels are BBC1, 2, UTV and C4 received on? Can she receive 'Five' on channel 37 ?.
The answers to these questions will tell, from which TX-site the present analogue signals are broadcast.

The analogue UHF channels from Divis and Kilkeel.
Divis     analogue UHF  31   27   24   21   37
Kilkeel   analogue UHF  39   45   49   42
 
The digital UHF channels from Divis and Kilkeel (post DSO)  
Divis PSB digital  UHF  27   21+  24                 100kW 
Divis COM digital  UHF                 23   26   29   50kW    
Kilkeel   digital  UHF  45   42   39+                400 W

UHF channel 23 26 and 29 are allocated to Kippure or Three Rock at 125kW - but not yet used from these ROI sites (distance 30-35km).

If the Divis signals are not stopped by the mountains just north of Kilkeel, the Divis signals should - after October 10/24 - be very much stronger at Skerries.
Kilkeel (distance 60km) only has an ERP of 400W - 250 times less than Divis (distance 120km).

I think the NImux from Black Mountain (1-2kW) will destroy any PSB-3 (the HD mux) signal from Kilkeel (60km) in Skerries.

Lars

Unlikely. The new DVB-T1/T2 antennas at Black Mountain implement beam tilting and HRP restrictions towards the South East to protect the DPSA of Moel-y-Parc. Also if you look at the maps published by Ofcom of the NIMM coverage, Black Mountain NIMM fades out in East Down and around Newcastle as would be expected from beam tilting and HRP restrictions. You can actually see Black Mountain from East Down and in the foothills of the Mournes.

http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/files/2012/07/NIMuxFactsheet4.pdf

Ronnie Raygun

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Also if you look at the maps published by Ofcom of the NIMM coverage, Black Mountain NIMM fades out in East Down and around Newcastle as would be expected from beam tilting and HRP restrictions.

Or as would be expected with shadowing caused by hills, which aren't exactly scarce in that area.

mrdtv2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Or as would be expected with shadowing caused by hills, which aren't exactly scarce in that area.

Exactly.